Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
dry rate for skydiving 182

 


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Sep 2, 2013, 8:41 AM
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dry rate for skydiving 182 Can't Post

What's a fair rental rate for a 182? It's a 57 182A with an O470 and no wingx.

Thanks,


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Sep 2, 2013, 9:15 AM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

In a pinch a couple of weeks ago, I needed a second airplane and I leased a C-182A from a nearby DZ for $130/hr dry, without pilot. $110-130 seems reasonable to me.


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Sep 2, 2013, 10:37 AM
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Re: [fencebuster] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the reply.
Was that $130 on the tach or hobbs?


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 2, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

NSEMN8R wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Was that $130 on the tach or hobbs?


Why would yo ask this?

How is the Hobbs connected to the oil pressure switch or the E bus? Can yo do anything about this??? Why are yo asking us as compared with the rental aircraft owner?

You have just held up a sign....

C

I suggest you take this particular aspect of this question to the student pilot section on the AOPA site....

Mad

Not being sarchastic or nasty here, just ending a conversation that you can't do anything about...when renting aircraft....

In the long run it really dosn't matter, shopping for rentals based upon how the meter is connected isn't going to save any cash....


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Sep 2, 2013, 10:52 AM)


chutem  (A 45827)

Sep 2, 2013, 12:20 PM
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
NSEMN8R wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Was that $130 on the tach or hobbs?


Why would yo ask this?

How is the Hobbs connected to the oil pressure switch or the E bus? Can yo do anything about this??? Why are yo asking us as compared with the rental aircraft owner?

You have just held up a sign....

C

I suggest you take this particular aspect of this question to the student pilot section on the AOPA site....

Mad

Not being sarchastic or nasty here, just ending a conversation that you can't do anything about...when renting aircraft....

In the long run it really dosn't matter, shopping for rentals based upon how the meter is connected isn't going to save any cash....

It looked to me like he was asking the other poster if the $130hr was hobbs or tach on the aircraft they rented.

WTF are you trying to say? Are you implying that he would disconnect the hobbs?


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Sep 2, 2013, 12:30 PM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

It was tach time. Perfectly valid question. My bad for not specifying.


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Sep 2, 2013, 4:32 PM
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
NSEMN8R wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Was that $130 on the tach or hobbs?


Why would yo ask this?

How is the Hobbs connected to the oil pressure switch or the E bus? Can yo do anything about this??? Why are yo asking us as compared with the rental aircraft owner?

You have just held up a sign....

C

I suggest you take this particular aspect of this question to the student pilot section on the AOPA site....

Mad

Not being sarchastic or nasty here, just ending a conversation that you can't do anything about...when renting aircraft....

In the long run it really dosn't matter, shopping for rentals based upon how the meter is connected isn't going to save any cash....

I asked because I'm thinking about renting out my 182 while I'm not using it over the winter and I was curious what others thought a fair rate would be.. And the Hobbs spins faster than the tach so it would make a difference in the rate.

What was it about the question that got your panties all in a wad?


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Sep 2, 2013, 5:33 PM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hobbs meter with a minimum of "X" hours per day.


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 3, 2013, 9:19 AM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

Dudes I'm not hostile, just being quick....and short with the typing...

Not implying disconnecting anything...

Different aircraft have ther meters connected differently, sometimes the savy renter will catch this, but in the long run it's a fixed item, I'd look more at the aircraft than items that you can't do anything about that's all...

In a 182 it really is a moot point unless it's connected to the battery and yo sit in the aircraft wasting the battery listning to the radios or something.

This to me was more of a owner renter type of question, where yo roll the dice and live with the consequences. Do you have inside hanger space, as compared with ice and snow and sun? Insurance requlations and pilot qualifications and currency would be my first concern, not meters is all....

C

There are excellent disertations on the differences and cost's of rentals on the AOPA site is all....

As a rule long term rentals don't watch the meters as much as including the cost for the overhaul....

Who pays for the detuctables?

Get a av lawyer would be my first stop....


Fast  (D 28237)

Sep 3, 2013, 9:41 AM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

NSEMN8R wrote:
ChrisD wrote:
NSEMN8R wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
Was that $130 on the tach or hobbs?


Why would yo ask this?

How is the Hobbs connected to the oil pressure switch or the E bus? Can yo do anything about this??? Why are yo asking us as compared with the rental aircraft owner?

You have just held up a sign....

C

I suggest you take this particular aspect of this question to the student pilot section on the AOPA site....

Mad

Not being sarchastic or nasty here, just ending a conversation that you can't do anything about...when renting aircraft....

In the long run it really dosn't matter, shopping for rentals based upon how the meter is connected isn't going to save any cash....

I asked because I'm thinking about renting out my 182 while I'm not using it over the winter and I was curious what others thought a fair rate would be.. And the Hobbs spins faster than the tach so it would make a difference in the rate.

What was it about the question that got your panties all in a wad?

Just make sure that you have a good contract that covers all the "what ifs" and who can fly the plane, etc.

We rent our 182 out at $125 dry. It has an upgraded engine and wingtips but not extentions. It mostly gets rented to people doing other wierd stuff rather than dropzones cause we use it weekly for hop and pops. We had a film crew in it last week with a whole camera set up shooting another plane flying around through the open door.


ksjumper  (D 12628)

Sep 3, 2013, 7:34 PM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

At $130 an hour plan on losing money unless you have cheap fuel or $30 jump tickets or are only doing tandems.


Fast  (D 28237)

Sep 4, 2013, 1:30 PM
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Re: [ksjumper] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

ksjumper wrote:
At $130 an hour plan on losing money unless you have cheap fuel or $30 jump tickets or are only doing tandems.

I was wrong on my price above, it's only $120 an hour that we lease ours at. I don't know what kind of calculations you're doing though. With our aircraft and 4 jumpers on board $24 slots breaks even if you're paying $4.00/gal for fuel. If you're paying less than that or doing tandems, that's profit. If you're paying more than that or not putting 4 people on every plane, you have loss that needs to be made up with tandems.

All of those numbers include paying your pilot. It has to be profitable to lease out the plane otherwise as an aircraft owner it's more worthwhile to let it sit and not have it building up hours, needing more MX, getting closer to needing an overhaul, etc.


(This post was edited by Fast on Sep 4, 2013, 1:30 PM)


dzswoop717  (D 9277)

Sep 4, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Re: [Fast] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no such thing as 4 dollar per gallon Avgas. Just bought a couple hundred gallons in my fuel trailer at 5.72 per gal. Most airports in my area are 6 bucks and above.
I leaseed a 182 last weekend for 120.00 per hr dry including the pilot (owner) it still worked out to 24 bucks per slot to 10k to break even.


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 13, 2013, 6:27 PM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure if this is fair or not but "borrowing" an 182 for a distant demo (Not me.) in the New England area, with insurance and pilot included, wet, ...

185.00 per hour. (Insurance stipulates: one ground person per jumper, written letter from all insurance companies beforehand stipulating who is covering ground coverage, two way radio communication with ground crew, min space requirments for landing area, and a few other things...)

Anyone else run into this,...some have told me this is on the less costly side for a distant one way ride....

C

Seems high to me. Perhaps this is just one other reason why demos are on the decline???

C


boyfalldown  (D License)

Sep 14, 2013, 5:39 AM
Post #15 of 20 (1987 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds like a great price. Figure 13 gallons per hour for the 182, so $75 in fuel, $25 for the pilot, fixed maintenance cost of $25 for the engine and prop reserve and $10 for the annual or 100 hour. I have no idea what insurance costs that covers jump ops but even without that factored in there is only a $50 net profit.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 14, 2013, 6:16 AM
Post #16 of 20 (1959 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
with insurance and pilot included, wet, ...

185.00 per hour.

Seems high to me

I had a DZO calculate his cost to run a 182, and he came up with $160/hr, and that was minus the pilot. Keep in mind that was 'cost', so no profit. Also keep in mind that was for jump ops at a DZ, so figure on higher fuel burn than a long ride in cruise to a demo.

I would say that 185/hr all-in for a borrowed plane to run a demo is a fair price.

I think one of the problems with demos is that some of them are the jumpers idea, not the one running the event and paying the bill. In those cases, the jumpers want the jump to happen for one reason or another, so they're going to do their best to price it so the event can afford it.

In cases where the event itself solicits the jumper, you just tell them what it costs (to include a tidy profit for the jumpers) and let them make of it what they will. If they can afford it, the jump is on. If not, you stay the DZ and skydive as usual.


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 17, 2013, 5:20 AM
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Re: [davelepka] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks dave,


I'm just really frustrated about all of this.

I've seen a steady rise in cost , much more than inflation,

and I think this is the Bear that is going to hit all of us in the rear at some point....

I wish there was more that we could do to stop this unabated cost spiral. In many respects I can see small clubs forming where everyone is "volunteering " their time and pooling funds just to do one or two loads per day...because that's all we will be able to afford....

C

At some remote location, with no insurance, and no Gov intervention....hey wait a min...that's how all of this started....Crazy


boyfalldown  (D License)

Sep 17, 2013, 9:58 PM
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

   What exactly are you frustrated about? Aircraft engine overhauls haven't skyrocketed lately, and annual inspections and 100 hours cost me the same as they did 5 years ago. The biggest and worst expense is fuel. I filled up today, 38.5 gallons for $211, $5.47 a gallon ouch.

As far as government Regulation goes, I feel pretty damn privileged as far as general aviation and skydiving goes. I can hop in my plane and fly anywhere I want without asking anyone permission, unless I choose to fly into class b airspace. When it comes to jumping the FAA is pretty damn lenient. If I have permission from the land owner of the proposed dz and am not over a congested area or assembly of persons I simply need to notify (not ask) the associated controller of that airspace of my intended jump ops and spend 5 minutes calling in a notam. The man will even provide me radar service of potential traffic while climbing to altitude free of charge.

Local municipalities seem to be a bigger issue than the man. Neighbors complaining of noise, farmer Mcnasties, fire Marshall's looking for graft, airport managers that don't care for skydivers, EPA goobers that want hard surface runways and won't allow dirt because of the environmental impacts to air quality, those seem to be real issues (to me at least).

The only 182 for rent near me is an rg, and the fbo charges $170 an hour wet. Add a pilot and $180 an hour for a plane for demo jumps seems like an ok deal. I doubt any dzo's are getting rich hauling fun jumpers for $25 a head. The next time your on a Cessna load with 3 jumpers give your dzo a hug, he's not making any money to haul you to altitude, and he's assuming a lot of liability for the privilege of not earning a penny. Unless the dollar gets stronger or demand for oil gets weaker that's just the way it is.


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 18, 2013, 8:17 AM
Post #19 of 20 (1372 views)
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Re: [boyfalldown] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

boyfalldown wrote:
What exactly are you frustrated about? Aircraft engine overhauls haven't skyrocketed lately, and annual inspections and 100 hours cost me the same as they did 5 years ago. The biggest and worst expense is fuel. I filled up today, 38.5 gallons for $211, $5.47 a gallon ouch.

As far as government Regulation goes, I feel pretty damn privileged as far as general aviation and skydiving goes. I can hop in my plane and fly anywhere I want without asking anyone permission, unless I choose to fly into class b airspace. When it comes to jumping the FAA is pretty damn lenient. If I have permission from the land owner of the proposed dz and am not over a congested area or assembly of persons I simply need to notify (not ask) the associated controller of that airspace of my intended jump ops and spend 5 minutes calling in a notam. The man will even provide me radar service of potential traffic while climbing to altitude free of charge.

Local municipalities seem to be a bigger issue than the man. Neighbors complaining of noise, farmer Mcnasties, fire Marshall's looking for graft, airport managers that don't care for skydivers, EPA goobers that want hard surface runways and won't allow dirt because of the environmental impacts to air quality, those seem to be real issues (to me at least).

The only 182 for rent near me is an rg, and the fbo charges $170 an hour wet. Add a pilot and $180 an hour for a plane for demo jumps seems like an ok deal. I doubt any dzo's are getting rich hauling fun jumpers for $25 a head. The next time your on a Cessna load with 3 jumpers give your dzo a hug, he's not making any money to haul you to altitude, and he's assuming a lot of liability for the privilege of not earning a penny. Unless the dollar gets stronger or demand for oil gets weaker that's just the way it is.

I'm not sure what planet your from...Smile

But my most recent overhaul from Black Max just cost about $45,000.00. In the 70s' this was about what the 206 originally cost.

Insurance and liability concerns are thru the roof....

Runnining a DZ is not always a fulfilling experience, nor is anyone making it! Everyone and I mean every one is just getting by.

General aviation has and is taking an enormous hit. In the 70s' and 80s' we literally had 4 times the number of registered aircraft as compared with 2012.

ya I'm frustrated and I live in Americka, our airspace is free because I fought for it...

And continue to fight for it.....

C

Those radar services are not free, every time we fill up we are paying an aviation tax of about 40 cents per gallon of whatever fuel we use, the rest is paid for by those of us with full time jobs...

The FAA is not lenient, if the FAA had free reign they would do away with General Aviation. WE TELL the FAA "how it is going to be," WE are the FAA. They work for us.

Fuel cost's have become the punching bag of the 22 century. Every tom dick and harrey has their fingers in fuel because of the perception that we can tax the shit out of "LUXURY" activities. As an example, part of the total tax: the fuel tax at Laconia NH is 12 cents per gallon, as dictated by the local aircraft Laconia commission. This money goes no farther than the commissions pockets to spend on themselves. The airport itself is funded by the State and funds from the fed. But they can do what they wish because no one gives a shit about the "rich people." This argument was used with some success at recent public hearing to deny a local skydiving operation access to a public field. The actual comments were: "Why should ""executive"" jets have to incure increased fuel costs ,...if ever they have to stay away from the field because the sky is littered with falling skydivers...."

Right, I feel real bad about a lie about someone in their G3 burning 30 lbs a min during race week.

So your spot on about much of this except that the fight goes on and on, they are not going to quit!!!

Ya so I'm frustrated with the attitude that we have it better here as compared with someplace else...we fought for this!

And Ya I'm frustrated with the carnival attitude that the tandem mills have created. Skydiving is now something that the majority just show up for an hour or two, make a couple of jumps and go on to their next adventure activity. The fight for access and the fight to fly isn't being fought anymore. Way too many people have the attitude that the current situation is just fine??? Way to many people have given up the fight!!!


DanG  (D 22351)

Sep 18, 2013, 9:07 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] dry rate for skydiving 182 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And Ya I'm frustrated with the carnival attitude that the tandem mills have created. Skydiving is now something that the majority just show up for an hour or two, make a couple of jumps and go on to their next adventure activity.

Do you offer tandems at your DZ?



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