Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC

 


easybreeze

Aug 27, 2013, 5:19 PM
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Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC Can't Post

As the title says, looking for a FAA Master Rigger that is willing to take in an apprentice. I already have my senior ticket. If you're willing, or can point me towards someone to talk to I would appreciate any feedback.

I've talked to rigger rob, however, he just doesn't have time this fall.


(This post was edited by easybreeze on Aug 27, 2013, 6:32 PM)


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 27, 2013, 5:26 PM
Post #2 of 11 (1351 views)
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

easybreeze wrote:
As the title says, looking for a FAA Master Rigger that is willing to take in an apprentice. I already have my senior ticket. If you're willing or can point me towards someone to talk to I would appreciate any feedback.

Looks like you're anonymous, which actually works better for my question to you: do you anticipate paying for your apprenticeship? getting paid? trading work for experience? I ask because I occasionally have requests to take on an apprentice and I'm curious what the expectations of apprentice-applicants are.

Mark


easybreeze

Aug 27, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Re: [mark] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

My preference would be to work for free for the experience gained from doing any and all work asked of me.

Although if the only opportunity available to me was to pay for the apprenticeship I would entertain the idea as long as the length and scope of what I would learn with my time was fully explained and agreed upon and cost of course. I would expect this type of set up to be more of a "learners course" type of an agreement.


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 27, 2013, 5:41 PM
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

easybreeze wrote:
My preference would be to work for free for the experience gained from doing any and all work asked of me.

Okay. That's what most applicants ask me. Where things get bogged down is when I ask first, "Exactly what work would you be doing that I couldn't do myself?" My second question is, "Once I've trained you, how can I be sure you'll work for free?" How would you answer those questions?

Mark


(This post was edited by mark on Aug 27, 2013, 5:57 PM)


easybreeze

Aug 27, 2013, 6:06 PM
Post #5 of 11 (1287 views)
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Re: [mark] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Valid questions. In my mind, I would think the upside for the instructor would be getting free work done by me for the cost of instruction thereby increasing their productivity as say, two reserves could get packed at once, etc. And necessary busy work (cleaning,organizing, etc) that would be done, freeing them to work on other things.

To the second question, I wouldn't expect to work for you for free indefinitely after apprenticing under you. And that I wouldn't learn everything in one week. So the balance of learning new things and doing the other work would work itself out so that we both benefited.


(This post was edited by easybreeze on Aug 27, 2013, 6:25 PM)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Aug 27, 2013, 6:24 PM
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

easybreeze wrote:

To the second question, I wouldn't expect to work for you for free indefinitely after apprenticing under you. And that I wouldn't learn everything in one week. So the balance of learning new things and doing the other work would work it's self out so that we both benefited.

Indefinitely does not at all sound fair. ALL apprenticeships have an end date.


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 27, 2013, 7:33 PM
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

easybreeze wrote:
Valid questions. In my mind, I would think the upside for the instructor would be getting free work done by me for the cost of instruction thereby increasing their productivity as say, two reserves could get packed at once, etc. And necessary busy work (cleaning,organizing, etc) that would be done, freeing them to work on other things.

To the second question, I wouldn't expect to work for you for free indefinitely after apprenticing under you. And that I wouldn't learn everything in one week. So the balance of learning new things and doing the other work would work itself out so that we both benefited.

I agree, the goal would be that we would both benefit, and the hope would be that at some point the value of the work you'd have done would equal the value of the time and effort I would have expended on your training.

On the other hand, I won't have twice as many customers just because I've taken on an apprentice, and my personal productivity would go down by the amount of time I spend on training instead of on generating revenue. But let's say I can increase my business by, oh, 20% because you're available. What exactly would be the value-added stuff you'd do during the other 80% of your work week? There's only just so much cleaning and organizing you can do. Would you be willing to mow the grass, wash the airplanes, clean the toilets, etc.?

See, the problem is that I imagine myself taking time to teach you one-off tasks like adjusting the length of the kill line on a collapsible pilot chute. It would be quicker to do it myself, which means you'd have to be able to do it by yourself and do it several times when I was unavailable before the end of your apprenticeship. It might be several months between opportunities. How long were you thinking your apprenticeship would last?

Mark


deadwood  (D 9930)

Aug 27, 2013, 8:42 PM
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Re: [mark] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

I have the same issue with training senior riggers. I can pack a reserve in 2 -2.5 hrs. by myself. I've spent 5-6 on a reserve pack job when training people. Even when they have 15 or so under their belt it still can be 3 to 4 hrs.

But I still do it for select people and I don't charge. I just feel at this point in my life that part of my job is mentorship and passing things on. When I'm dead and gone some of the things I've taught these people will still be alive in them and they will in turn pass it on.

I am however, very selective in the people I start with. There has to be some dedication already shown. I've seen too many people get to 3 or 4 pack jobs, decide this is too much like work and then quit after I've invested a lot of time in them.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Aug 28, 2013, 5:12 AM
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Although if the only opportunity available to me was to pay for the apprenticeship I would entertain the idea as long as the length and scope of what I would learn with my time was fully explained and agreed upon and cost of course. I would expect this type of set up to be more of a "learners course" type of an agreement.

This is exactly why we have a set syllabus for each type of certificate already.

We teach the essentials that are needed for the certificate plus some additional items.
Fees are usually based on a per day rate.

Like Mark has already stated; it is really not cost effective to have an apprentice working in the shop in the way that you have described earlier.

It is best to have a set learning objective and a plan to meet that objective with both the student and instructor at the beginning. This should include the course material and cost.

Cheers,
MEL


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Aug 29, 2013, 2:07 PM
Post #10 of 11 (844 views)
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Re: [easybreeze] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are a Raeford guy then you ought to know you can't swing a dead cat there without hitting a Master Rigger. Finding one that actively runs a loft is another thing altogether..... Have you talked to Kevin Carver (RatBoy) yet? I'd say talk to Tim Tennant, but I know he's way too busy doing other things these days.

Chuck


fatbuger

Aug 29, 2013, 6:49 PM
Post #11 of 11 (775 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Looking for master rigger around raeford, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Why don't you give Sun Path a call and speak to either Jeff Johnson or Tom Parker and tell them what you are looking for 910 875 9002. Do you live in Raeford?



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