Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Beginner's Canopy

 

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Pinky2

Aug 7, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Beginner's Canopy Can't Post

Hi there

I am intending to buy a complete BOC hackey system right after my AFF. I know that I will have to talk to my DZ riggers thoroughly before buying it.

What manufacturers do produce and sell a 9-cell beginner's canopy?

Cheers for naming some of them.Wink

Pinky2


yoink

Aug 7, 2013, 11:38 AM
Post #2 of 39 (5350 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

All of them.


Honestly, your question is so vague that it shows you haven't even done any preliminary research on your own.

Try searching here - you'll find over 30,000 results for 'first canopy'. Read those threads and see what the commonalities are between them... you'll be introduced to concepts such as size and wingloading which all go to defining a 'beginner' canopy as well as reading about the major manufacturers.

You'll also see that most people recommend a second hand canopy for a first step and why.

I'm all for helping folk, but really, try and do a little legwork on your own before asking to be spoonfed.


(This post was edited by yoink on Aug 7, 2013, 11:42 AM)


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Aug 7, 2013, 12:03 PM
Post #3 of 39 (5293 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinky2 wrote:
Hi there

I am intending to buy a complete BOC hackey system right after my AFF. I know that I will have to talk to my DZ riggers thoroughly before buying it.

What manufacturers do produce and sell a 9-cell beginner's canopy?

Cheers for naming some of them.Wink

Pinky2

Bad idea. Continue to use rental gear until you have more exposure to the sport and a better idea of what your personal goals are. It'll give you a better chance at getting the right tools for the job.

I'd say an A or B license (25-50 jumps) is a good point to start to consider buying gear.

It is a good thing that you are doing research, but be patient when it comes to such a big investment!

Blue skies!Smile


GooniesKid

Aug 7, 2013, 1:27 PM
Post #4 of 39 (5162 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

what did i say..i called it here first...every week we always ALWAYS get some FOA ask about getting a complete rig.

however, a good place to start is here:
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/A_Guide_to_Buying_Your_First_Skydiving_Gear_873.html

or here
www.google.com


FlyBear

Aug 7, 2013, 2:27 PM
Post #5 of 39 (5088 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

http://en.lmgtfy.com/?q=first+skydiving+rig

Wink Wink

Like it was already said: Wait until you have at least 20 to 30 jumps.

Or better: Wait for the end of the season. There will be much more used gear on the market. Smile


Pinky2

Aug 9, 2013, 2:52 PM
Post #6 of 39 (4672 views)
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Re: [yoink] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate your critiscm for sure my friend, but do not assume I haven't done any "legwork" before I asked this vague question. It's just such a vast choice of manufacturers out there. I surely know PD, Javelin, Icarus and so on. I just asked for any names to incorporate into my list. And I am absolutely sure that I do not need any spoonfeeding, so keep it for yourself.

The reason most people advise to use a second hand gear is that it loses about 30% of its value at the point of purchase. If the AFF canopy fits me well, why shouldn't I buy a brand new student canopy I used to jump? I am not gonna swoop with it. I simply don't want a rig that's got 600 jumps on it.

blue skies

Pinky2


virgin-burner

Aug 9, 2013, 3:09 PM
Post #7 of 39 (4662 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

du machsch öberhoupt ken sinn.. aber wenn de chole hesch, gib doch rasch öppis zwösched 5 ond 10 riese us wo nach hondert spröng chasch uf de möll schmeisse wells do niemert wott, inklusive der sälber. vell spass!


(This post was edited by virgin-burner on Aug 9, 2013, 3:10 PM)


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Aug 9, 2013, 3:48 PM
Post #8 of 39 (4625 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinky2 wrote:
I appreciate your critiscm for sure my friend, but do not assume I haven't done any "legwork" before I asked this vague question. It's just such a vast choice of manufacturers out there. I surely know PD, Javelin, Icarus and so on. I just asked for any names to incorporate into my list. And I am absolutely sure that I do not need any spoonfeeding, so keep it for yourself.

The reason most people advise to use a second hand gear is that it loses about 30% of its value at the point of purchase. If the AFF canopy fits me well, why shouldn't I buy a brand new student canopy I used to jump? I am not gonna swoop with it. I simply don't want a rig that's got 600 jumps on it.

blue skies

Pinky2

referring to a "beginner BOC hackey system" and calling Javelin a manufacturer really doesn't help your credibility ...


GooniesKid

Aug 9, 2013, 4:21 PM
Post #9 of 39 (4609 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I really wish Brian Germain would come on here and comment on all these pre-AFF students (who think they know everything they need to know about this sport) wanting to get their own rig during or straight after AFF.

oh i'm sorry, you don't know who Germain is? I thought you did all the "legwork" Unimpressed

By the way, there's nothing with a rig that has 600 jumps on it. That student rig you're using probably has more than 600 jumps on it and is probably older than you.

To make it into this elite club you gotta pay your dues..and i dont' mean paying money...do some legwork on that.

Speaking about legwork, where's a piece of leg i can dry hump Unsure


devildog  (C 40302)

Aug 9, 2013, 4:56 PM
Post #10 of 39 (4581 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinky2 wrote:
I appreciate your critiscm for sure my friend, but do not assume I haven't done any "legwork" before I asked this vague question. It's just such a vast choice of manufacturers out there. I surely know PD, Javelin, Icarus and so on. I just asked for any names to incorporate into my list. And I am absolutely sure that I do not need any spoonfeeding, so keep it for yourself.

The reason most people advise to use a second hand gear is that it loses about 30% of its value at the point of purchase. If the AFF canopy fits me well, why shouldn't I buy a brand new student canopy I used to jump? I am not gonna swoop with it. I simply don't want a rig that's got 600 jumps on it.

blue skies

Pinky2

That's *a* reason, but not's not the *only* reason. You'll likely downsize a few times after AFF. You really don't want to be floating around on a big student canopy for hundreds of jumps. You won't enjoy it and it will be hard(er) to sell. Not too mention, your rig will be built around something that size instead of smaller. There's a world of canopy options and ways to fly it that are in between student flight and swooping.


Divergert  (A 7079)

Aug 14, 2013, 6:58 AM
Post #11 of 39 (4318 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on my limited experience I would say go for an Aerodyne Pilot.


Di0  (C 42151)

Aug 14, 2013, 8:05 AM
Post #12 of 39 (4256 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinky2 wrote:
Hi there

I am intending to buy a complete BOC hackey system right after my AFF.

And you plan on not using it until you reach your A-license, right?
Until you get your A, you're still a student, although cleared for solo. That means you HAVE TO use student gear, your instructor will HAVE TO check your gear before a jump and so on.
At that point, rent it from the school. Maybe, I think, if you buy an exact same equivalent version of what they give you in school, they would let you go, but I don't see the point.

Renting gear also lets you try downsizing in very small steps (~10 sqf at a time, let's say) which is safer and more progressive, you can only screw that much more by reducing your canopy of 10sqf...
When you have to buy a new canopy, you'll want to downsize with bigger steps (you're investing a few thousand $ at a time, you don't want to do that to go from 190 to 180, makes sense?), which is very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
Incidentally, the canopy is not the only difference between personal rigs and student rigs, a lot of things are oversized in student rigs to make sure they are more forgiving and rugged than the average personal rig. I don't know if you've ever seen an advanced jumper rig and a student rig while open next to each other, if you have the chance to see when they are repacking them and it's not a busy day, ask to have a look at them side-by-side, I did and there is a lot to learn/understand.

So, as also a student looking forward to finish my AFF, I promised myself to rent until the end of the season, where I should be done with my AFF and hopefully a at a good point toward my A and use the winter to read, ask questions, collect thoughts and decide what to buy:
I'll probably start with non-skill related equipment that you need anyway: a couple of good altis (1 analog, 1 digital), a good open face helmet, very good googles, maybe a nice RW jumpsuit, all things that you can keep using for many years regardless of your skill level.

Until then, there is nothing wrong in renting rigs.


(This post was edited by Di0 on Aug 14, 2013, 8:13 AM)


JeffCa  (B License)

Aug 14, 2013, 9:32 AM
Post #13 of 39 (4187 views)
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Re: [Pinky2] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

When I was researching for my first canopy this year, there were 4 names that kept coming up over and over; Pulse, Sabre2, Pilot and Safire2. These have all been suggested by instructors and on these forums as being suitable for first canopies. There seems to be widespread agreement, so I'm satisfied that it's good information. I won't bias you by telling you which one I bought, but I'll be jumping it starting in September. Can't wait!

I'm like you, I wanted to buy new. I downsized on rental/student gear a few times until my instructors were satisfied that I was at the size I should be considering my first "permanent" size. The canopy and size I bought are also hard to find used, because they're so popular and get bought quickly. That gives me confidence that it will be easy to sell if/when I'm ready to go down another size. Frequent downsizing isn't really in the culture at my DZ, so I could be on it for several years.


GooniesKid

Aug 14, 2013, 10:03 AM
Post #14 of 39 (4156 views)
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Re: [Divergert] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Divergert wrote:
Based on my limited experience I would say go for an Aerodyne Pilot.

Compared to OP you do not have limited experience.
Don't you ever EVER put yourself down like that.


dthames  (B 37674)

Aug 14, 2013, 10:20 AM
Post #15 of 39 (4129 views)
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Re: [Divergert] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Divergert wrote:
Based on my limited experience I would say go for an Aerodyne Pilot.

I purchased a used rig with a Pilot (loaded at 0.93) when I had about 20 jumps. I knew I would not be downsizing. 250+ jump later the decision(s) are maybe two of the best ones that I have made in skydiving.


GooniesKid

Aug 14, 2013, 10:21 AM
Post #16 of 39 (4124 views)
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Re: [dthames] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

dthames wrote:
Divergert wrote:
Based on my limited experience I would say go for an Aerodyne Pilot.

I purchased a used rig with a Pilot (loaded at 0.93) when I had about 20 jumps. I knew I would not be downsizing. 250+ jump later the decision(s) are maybe two of the best ones that I have made in skydiving.

that's because you, sir, are a bad ass Wink
you know your limits and most likely you talked to your local DZ and instructors instead of inquiring here on DZ.com Tongue


FB1609  (C 1409)

Aug 14, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Re: [GooniesKid] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought my rig before I did my AFF, recommended by my instructor. Saved me money and I did the AFF with my own rig, so it was a good plan IMO, also kept me committed. Just make sure you get good advice n what you buy, as you are trying to do.


milehigheric  (C License)

Aug 14, 2013, 7:59 PM
Post #18 of 39 (3828 views)
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Re: [FB1609] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

There are certainly cost savings to be had if you use your own gear. In my case, I paid 5,000 aud for my used rig. With gear hire at $40 a pop here I only need to make 125 jumps to 'break even'... And then I still have a rig worth $4.5k to sell. The decision to own or rent is a no brainer in my situation.

Despite the obvious cost savings I held off until I understood the gear, understood the market and being the tight ass I am, I waited for the right deal to come along. I feel I did the right thing, and at the end of the day I was on my own gear by jump 30 anyway.

During AFF considering buying gear shouldn't really be on your mind a whole lot IMO.


JohnnyMarko

Aug 14, 2013, 10:53 PM
Post #19 of 39 (3759 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Aug 15, 2013, 12:25 AM
Post #20 of 39 (3722 views)
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Re: [milehigheric] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

milehigheric wrote:
During AFF considering buying gear shouldn't really be on your mind a whole lot IMO.

This is certainly true!

But it's almost impossible not to dream. When I was a student, all I could think about was having a rig of my own. I think it happens to a lot of people. I don't think there's any harm in the planning and dreaming part, as long as you don't actually buy anything straight off student status Smile

(To the OP, I'm still on the same model of canopy I bought in my first rig, and it is indeed one of the big four - "beginner" canopy shapes could more properly be described as "general purpose" canopies, I reckon Smile)


(This post was edited by Joellercoaster on Aug 15, 2013, 12:25 AM)


NorrinRadd  (Student)

Aug 15, 2013, 3:54 AM
Post #21 of 39 (3652 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnnyMarko wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?
There's always gotta be one LaughLaugh


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Aug 15, 2013, 6:55 AM
Post #22 of 39 (3558 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnnyMarko wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?

hahaha. Laugh
Exactly my thoughts as well


(This post was edited by ShcShc11 on Aug 15, 2013, 6:56 AM)


GooniesKid

Aug 15, 2013, 10:03 AM
Post #23 of 39 (3463 views)
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Re: [ShcShc11] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

ShcShc11 wrote:
JohnnyMarko wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?

hahaha. Laugh
Exactly my thoughts as well

I'm not bitter bro,,,just annoyed and think the answer "try using the search feature" is warrented.
Every week, here on the forums we get some yahoo finishing up AFF or still in student status asking about buying a rig. And every week we get the same replies such as "you don't need to buy gear at this point", "you should rent", "you should take a canopy course", "get new if you have money", "get used if you are broke and don't have a job", etc etc etc.

People otta try using the search feature before they start posting the same about a topic that's been thoroughly discussed.

Am i not correct?


JohnnyMarko

Aug 15, 2013, 11:08 AM
Post #24 of 39 (3415 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

GooniesKid wrote:
ShcShc11 wrote:
JohnnyMarko wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?

hahaha. Laugh
Exactly my thoughts as well

I'm not bitter bro,,,just annoyed and think the answer "try using the search feature" is warrented.
Every week, here on the forums we get some yahoo finishing up AFF or still in student status asking about buying a rig. And every week we get the same replies such as "you don't need to buy gear at this point", "you should rent", "you should take a canopy course", "get new if you have money", "get used if you are broke and don't have a job", etc etc etc.

People otta try using the search feature before they start posting the same about a topic that's been thoroughly discussed.

Am i not correct?

So instead of gear, they should be focused on say, asking out your instructors?

Read the post, ignore it, and move on.


GooniesKid

Aug 15, 2013, 11:15 AM
Post #25 of 39 (3406 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] Beginner's Canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnnyMarko wrote:
GooniesKid wrote:
ShcShc11 wrote:
JohnnyMarko wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

Were you ever a student or did you just start out at 1,000 jumps?

hahaha. Laugh
Exactly my thoughts as well

I'm not bitter bro,,,just annoyed and think the answer "try using the search feature" is warrented.
Every week, here on the forums we get some yahoo finishing up AFF or still in student status asking about buying a rig. And every week we get the same replies such as "you don't need to buy gear at this point", "you should rent", "you should take a canopy course", "get new if you have money", "get used if you are broke and don't have a job", etc etc etc.

People otta try using the search feature before they start posting the same about a topic that's been thoroughly discussed.

Am i not correct?

So instead of gear, they should be focused on say, asking out your instructors?

Read the post, ignore it, and move on.

Dude, i'm so over that instructor..that's so old news Tongue


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