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RobertMBlevins

Jul 11, 2013, 2:07 AM
Post #45051 of 52750 (16727 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Georger says in part:

Quote:
'Satisfied now? You got your phony history, personal uninformed speculation, and your pop at me in, all in one post versus five long posts tonight - that's a record in economy.'

Well, Cooper DID pop the other reserve and cut paracord from it, so I wouldn't call that speculation. Pop at you? LOL that's funny. Every other post you call me a troll. Get real. As far as economy, I already told you I have other interests besides Cooper.

Non-Cooper: I have arranged with WSDOT, the mayor of Auburn, and the city's rep on these things to put up a sign about Brian Love at Main and Auburn Way. If you are from Washington, you know these signs. They say:

Quote:
'Do Not Drink and Drive in Memory of...'

I have asked them to accomplish this task before the parade. So far, everyone is willing and has offered their full support. Trust me, Georger. I have other interests besides Cooper. And this is not a race, nor it is an effort to see who is smarter. Personally, I think you're a real intelligent guy who may have been dumped behind the door when they passed out the common sense.


skyjack71

Jul 11, 2013, 2:51 AM
Post #45052 of 52750 (16705 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
Well, Cooper DID pop the other reserve and cut paracord from it, so I wouldn't call that speculation.

Jo Thinks - WHAT the F difference does it make? You nor I will ever know what made Cooper do anything he did.

The reader seems to think - Cooper actually went see Tina after the jump. I had thought that same thing myself when the ex told me she worked for a credit card company out of Ca. where Tina obtained her divorce.

Duane had plenty of time to get his stach and then get to her place and leave a little something and return to The DALLES.


Robert99

Jul 11, 2013, 6:49 AM
Post #45053 of 52750 (16658 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Just Lofting [In reply to] Can't Post

Jo, Just try to get a good night's sleep. The world will look better, and different, tomorrow. And you will feel better as well.

Robert99


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 11, 2013, 9:36 AM
Post #45054 of 52750 (16616 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

It is a simple concept, only you seem to not know what it is. It isn't even a Military, or Skydiver, exclusive concept.

Of course the statement above is wrong, because you do know what it is, and just want o come off as superior to others. Your entire history of posting is nothing more than your attempts at trying to prove your superior to others, but mostly you want to be superior Robert. The envy of him must eat you up.

I fortunately, do not suffer from those feelings of inferiority.

So, moving on, if the Sheridan backers can break his alibi, he could be a viable suspect.

Matt


georger

Jul 11, 2013, 9:48 AM
Post #45055 of 52750 (16612 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'Satisfied now? You got your phony history, personal uninformed speculation, and your pop at me in, all in one post versus five long posts tonight - that's a record in economy.'

Well, Cooper DID pop the other reserve and cut paracord from it, so I wouldn't call that speculation. Pop at you? LOL that's funny. Every other post you call me a troll. Get real. As far as economy, I already told you I have other interests besides Cooper.

Non-Cooper: I have arranged with WSDOT, the mayor of Auburn, and the city's rep on these things to put up a sign about Brian Love at Main and Auburn Way. If you are from Washington, you know these signs. They say:

Quote:
'Do Not Drink and Drive in Memory of...'

I have asked them to accomplish this task before the parade. So far, everyone is willing and has offered their full support. Trust me, Georger. I have other interests besides Cooper. And this is not a race, nor it is an effort to see who is smarter. Personally, I think you're a real intelligent guy who may have been dumped behind the door when they passed out the common sense.

There you go denying and avoiding you said-did something again.

"But we do know one of the first things he did was to pop one of the reserves and cut cord from it."

It/s no biggie. We know you are perfect.

Troll on.

What other word can I use? We are denied using the proper words for things here. That is the handicap we suffer under here. We can't even describe things as they are! Once again Blevins you luck out. You are free to do and deny just about
anything.

It's your forum and the rest of us are just fucked.


(This post was edited by georger on Jul 11, 2013, 10:04 AM)


georger

Jul 11, 2013, 9:51 AM
Post #45056 of 52750 (16609 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

matthewcline wrote:
It is a simple concept, only you seem to not know what it is. It isn't even a Military, or Skydiver, exclusive concept.

Of course the statement above is wrong, because you do know what it is, and just want o come off as superior to others. Your entire history of posting is nothing more than your attempts at trying to prove your superior to others, but mostly you want to be superior Robert. The envy of him must eat you up.

I fortunately, do not suffer from those feelings of inferiority.

So, moving on, if the Sheridan backers can break his alibi, he could be a viable suspect.

Matt

Is it biggere than a bread box and smallere than a tank?


377  (F 666)

Jul 11, 2013, 10:30 AM
Post #45057 of 52750 (16595 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the main rigs didnt have D rings to attach a reserve to, what difference does it make which reserve Cooper opened and cut up? There was no way Cooper could have used a reserve to jump unless he brought some carabiners or similar attachment hardware aboard.

Am I missing something?

Jo, I read your entire post and still am left wondering what, if any, new facts you have uncovered. You do seem to be happier and for that I am glad.

Did the FBI actually interview the physician who was present at the birth of Sheridan's daughter in Nepal? I just wonder how solid his alibi was. If the alibi was rock solid why did the FBI return and insist on a DNA test?

I bet Sheridan reads this forum. I'd love to talk to him. If the FBI has ruled him out on DNA what is he worried about? Sheridan and I share the experience of jumping in the early days of the sport and it would be fun to talk to him about his exploits. I'd be especially interested in hearing about his homemade wingsuit jumps. That was ballsy as hell back then. I have a book entitled BIRDMEN, all about batwing and wingsuit jump pioneers. It was a deadly game and many jumpers died trying new concepts. Sheridan was a true pioneer in extreme skydiving. He thought outside of the box and was apparently a fearless experimenter.

How about it Sheridan? I'm not FBI or CIA, just an old jumper like you. PM me and let's talk. I'll buy us a nice meal in Healdburg or Windsor and some good wine and we can talk about the good old days of round chutes, iron men and crazy risks.

377


georger

Jul 11, 2013, 11:57 AM
Post #45058 of 52750 (16568 views)
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Re: [377] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

377 wrote:
Since the main rigs didnt have D rings to attach a reserve to, what difference does it make which reserve Cooper opened and cut up? There was no way Cooper could have used a reserve to jump unless he brought some carabiners or similar attachment hardware aboard.

Am I missing something?

How about it Sheridan? I'm not FBI or CIA, just an old jumper like you. PM me and let's talk. I'll buy us a nice meal in Healdburg or Windsor and some good wine and we can talk about the good old days of round chutes, iron men and crazy risks.

377

Exactly. The rest is invention and imagination.

Call him up and arrange something privately. Give details
later, or not at all! Laugh This forum doesn't warrant any
*special favors. Call Geoff up and discuss the details with him
and let him handle the media side.


RobertMBlevins

Jul 11, 2013, 10:25 PM
Post #45059 of 52750 (16390 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:
RobertMBlevins wrote:
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'Satisfied now? You got your phony history, personal uninformed speculation, and your pop at me in, all in one post versus five long posts tonight - that's a record in economy.'

Well, Cooper DID pop the other reserve and cut paracord from it, so I wouldn't call that speculation. Pop at you? LOL that's funny. Every other post you call me a troll. Get real. As far as economy, I already told you I have other interests besides Cooper.

Non-Cooper: I have arranged with WSDOT, the mayor of Auburn, and the city's rep on these things to put up a sign about Brian Love at Main and Auburn Way. If you are from Washington, you know these signs. They say:

Quote:
'Do Not Drink and Drive in Memory of...'

I have asked them to accomplish this task before the parade. So far, everyone is willing and has offered their full support. Trust me, Georger. I have other interests besides Cooper. And this is not a race, nor it is an effort to see who is smarter. Personally, I think you're a real intelligent guy who may have been dumped behind the door when they passed out the common sense.

There you go denying and avoiding you said-did something again.

"But we do know one of the first things he did was to pop one of the reserves and cut cord from it."

It/s no biggie. We know you are perfect.

Troll on.

What other word can I use? We are denied using the proper words for things here. That is the handicap we suffer under here. We can't even describe things as they are! Once again Blevins you luck out. You are free to do and deny just about
anything.

It's your forum and the rest of us are just fucked.

Oh, please...I'm here less and less all the time, especially with my long hours working on this and that, most of it for others.

True/False: Cooper popped the one working reserve and cut cord from it. I said 'true'.

True/False: They didn't find the dummy reserve on board when the plane landed in Reno. I say true.

The only question I raised was why would Cooper get rid of the dummy chute and leave the other two aboard? He couldn't hook it up or use it anyway, right? So WHY was it not there?

Thoughts on it: I suggested he either tossed it out in anger...or, he may have tossed it out a minute or two before he jumped to serve as a red herring for searchers on the ground. But no one really knows. It's just strange they never found it on board, especially because it couldn't even be attached anyway. The lighter weight of it may be a factor here. Maybe...easier to just pick up and toss out the airstairs.

Other Stuff: Got a message from Ayn Dietrich. She forwarded my questions on the Amboy chute to Agent Eng. Her email was very nice. I thanked her and told her I had no other questions for the Seattle FBI on the Cooper case right now.

Sheridan: Good suspect in some ways, some ways bad, other is downright ugly.

The Good: He was expert enough to make such a jump with a decent chance for survival.

The Bad: If he came all the way from Tibet to do it, he certainly didn't dress the part for such a risky jump. Also, his facial features (mostly rounded) don't match the sketch REAL well, although there are some similarities.

The Ugly: Blue Eyes. Hard to get around that one. This is worse than the hazel/brown comparison on Christiansen.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jul 11, 2013, 10:35 PM)


skyjack71

Jul 11, 2013, 10:34 PM
Post #45060 of 52750 (16386 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Tina and Gresham [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I replied to a post someone made regarding the reserves and stated:

Quote:
Jo Thinks - WHAT the F difference does it make? You nor I will ever know what made Cooper do anything he did.

The reader seems to think - Cooper actually went see Tina after the jump. I had thought that same thing myself when the ex told me she worked for a credit card company out of Ca. where Tina obtained her divorce.

Duane had plenty of time to get his stach and then get to her place and leave a little something and return to The DALLES.



I was asked WHY I ever entertained the idea that Duane knew where Tina lived in 1979. On the 1979 Sentimental Journey Duane disappeared for around 5 1/2 hours.

After he returned from is 5 1/2 hour trip alone, we continued on our trip crossing the Columbia to Hwy 14 at the OLD bridge (the name of which eludes me tonight - but it has been discussed in detail in prior postings).

I was unable now to remember if he made the statement from the West side of the river on our way to or if he mentioned it when we returned from Seattle on the OR side. He spoke of Gresham, OR he used to know someone who worked at a retirement or nursing home there - I do NOT now remember his words - but, will swear before a court of law that he made the statement. I thought nothing of it.

I now know Tina Mucklow lived in Gresham at the time of the money find in 1980. She quickly removed herself from the area & went into a convent.

When I learned this - it peaked my interest - was it sheer coincidence that she worked in a nursing home or retirement home at that time?

Later in my investigation you guys know that I spent a lot of time talking to the ex-wife from 1971. After the way the FBI approached her it took me a LONG time to win her confidence. During one of our long conversations. she told me what she did in CA. One of the things she did was work for a credit card company (some place in my notes is the name of the company). During my early relationship with Duane it was obvious he was still hung up on this woman. I told him I could not take the relationship to another level until he got her out of his system. I personally around Thanksgiving of 1977 put him on a plane to CA to see her. A relationship with a man who was still in love with his ex was NOT acceptable.

Perhaps I am connecting things that do NOT connect and the FBI is the only party who could have answered this, but they never went back to see her after the initial contact in 1997 after they were prodded into investigating Duane by me.

As some of you know - Tina obtained her divorce in CA in the same area the ex-wife lived in.
I think the ex-wife informed Duane about Tina undergoing a divorce in the area and provided him with an address in Gresham. Tina was living with her sister in CA and then moved to OR after the divorce.

Who did Duane know who lived in Gresham and is it a co-incidence that in 1979 that Tina lived there?

Did Duane Weber pay Tina a little visit in Gresham in Sept of 1979?
I had asked Mr. H if Tina had a break-in around Sept of 1979. He did NOT know or made no comment. When I found out the ex-worked for a Credit Card Company and Tina living in Gresham in 1979 - the FBI and I were NOT communicating. I was really pissed at the FBI's lack of communication (they didn't contact me and ask me the things I remembered).

They had already sent me the letter of 1998 dismissing him based on prints. I LAUNCHed my own investigation into Duane's past. I forget now how I got the ex's location or if it was in his address book. Until that letter arrived I left everything up to the FBI.

Who did Duane know in Gresham?
Did Tina have a break-in around Sept of 1979?
Did someone leave her a package and take something as a souvenier in 1979? Something she might not have missed right away.

I have suggested the Book was taken from the plane - a Book with a picture of a little girl in it who bears a striking resemblance to Tina Mucklow.

Something about that picture and that book haunt me and it will always haunt me!

Perhaps the picture of the little girl is just a girl and the Book has NOTHING to do with Tina Mucklow.

The research on the book: I did speak with the author before she died. The book was published for a church in the area Tina was from...I forget NOW the location, but It is either in this thread or in my notes. There were only 3000 copies of the book published and the author still had 2 of them. I asked her why she used Tina as the name of the little Dutch girl she had illustrated in the book?
She told me she just like the name! She was in her 90's.

Because of the date associated with this book - there was NO way it was connected to anyone who knew Duane or any of his family.

Tina was about the same age as Duane's daughter Zona would have been...ABSOLUTELY not suggesting Tina was Zona - not at all.

Tina looked enough like my own daughter who was much young to have been her sister - at least in the pictures.

Tina spent a lot of time with Cooper and told me "He was a very sad man". She had not told this to the FBI but to Jo Weber in a conversation in 2004 - yet, Ckret was brazen enough to use this as though it was his own information and not acquired by the wife of a suspect.

Actually do NOT know were this train of thought even enters into the picture, but felt I needed to again tell this part of the story. The details are in this thread someplace - remember I am starting to forget things... age and self-defense - trying to move away, but finding that very impossible with all of the STRANGE co-incidents and the recent things that have happened in the last 7 months. Especially the thing in the last few wks.

The book is probably of NO significance at all and just pure co-incident - but for some reason I cannot let go of the book with the little Dutch girl in it named Tina. It did NOT come from Duane's family because of the dates and it haunts me. The child in the picture - her image is burned into my memory.

When I tried to scan it it fell apart.
The book was water damaged.
I will again post the bad picture I have and maybe someone else will look at it with fresh eyes.

When I contacted the woman who composed the book - I did not and still do not know the family names of Tina's family or the family friends. I have all the information on the book in a file I can't even find - but I still have it.
I remember the basic information, but forget where the file is in all of this huge research. When I look for something it gets put back in the wrong box. I have so much - it has just all gotten scrambled up and now my mind is scrambling to just to keep tabs of day to day things.

No need for any feed back - just letting my mind ramble with the memories and the questions that have gone unanswered now for 41 plus yrs in the case and my own questions unanswered for over 18 yrs now.

If that book was indeed Tina's I would love to put it in her hands before I depart and tell her how sorry I am for all the grief he caused her. I also want to let her know he did become a good man.
He lived by the principles in that book and one he even quoted at times. Whatever connection she felt for him or he for her - it was one that influenced how he spent the rest of his life.

This needs to end for all of the survivors - The crew and myself and anyone else out there whose life has been altered by Cooper.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Jul 11, 2013, 10:57 PM)


georger

Jul 12, 2013, 12:34 AM
Post #45061 of 52750 (16358 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
georger wrote:
RobertMBlevins wrote:
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'Satisfied now? You got your phony history, personal uninformed speculation, and your pop at me in, all in one post versus five long posts tonight - that's a record in economy.'

Well, Cooper DID pop the other reserve and cut paracord from it, so I wouldn't call that speculation. Pop at you? LOL that's funny. Every other post you call me a troll. Get real. As far as economy, I already told you I have other interests besides Cooper.

Non-Cooper: I have arranged with WSDOT, the mayor of Auburn, and the city's rep on these things to put up a sign about Brian Love at Main and Auburn Way. If you are from Washington, you know these signs. They say:

Quote:
'Do Not Drink and Drive in Memory of...'

I have asked them to accomplish this task before the parade. So far, everyone is willing and has offered their full support. Trust me, Georger. I have other interests besides Cooper. And this is not a race, nor it is an effort to see who is smarter. Personally, I think you're a real intelligent guy who may have been dumped behind the door when they passed out the common sense.

There you go denying and avoiding you said-did something again.

"But we do know one of the first things he did was to pop one of the reserves and cut cord from it."

It/s no biggie. We know you are perfect.

Troll on.

What other word can I use? We are denied using the proper words for things here. That is the handicap we suffer under here. We can't even describe things as they are! Once again Blevins you luck out. You are free to do and deny just about
anything.

It's your forum and the rest of us are just fucked.

Oh, please...I'm here less and less all the time, especially with my long hours working on this and that, most of it for others.

True/False: Cooper popped the one working reserve and cut cord from it. I said 'true'.

True/False: They didn't find the dummy reserve on board when the plane landed in Reno. I say true.

The only question I raised was why would Cooper get rid of the dummy chute and leave the other two aboard? He couldn't hook it up or use it anyway, right? So WHY was it not there?

Thoughts on it: I suggested he either tossed it out in anger...or, he may have tossed it out a minute or two before he jumped to serve as a red herring for searchers on the ground. But no one really knows. It's just strange they never found it on board, especially because it couldn't even be attached anyway. The lighter weight of it may be a factor here. Maybe...easier to just pick up and toss out the airstairs.

Other Stuff: Got a message from Ayn Dietrich. She forwarded my questions on the Amboy chute to Agent Eng. Her email was very nice. I thanked her and told her I had no other questions for the Seattle FBI on the Cooper case right now.

Sheridan: Good suspect in some ways, some ways bad, other is downright ugly.

The Good: He was expert enough to make such a jump with a decent chance for survival.

The Bad: If he came all the way from Tibet to do it, he certainly didn't dress the part for such a risky jump. Also, his facial features (mostly rounded) don't match the sketch REAL well, although there are some similarities.

The Ugly: Blue Eyes. Hard to get around that one. This is worse than the hazel/brown comparison on Christiansen.

No. Your statement in support of Cooper having a a 'risk-reward
plan' (ie being professionally trained) was:

"But we do know one of the first things he did was to pop one of
the reserves and cut cord from it."

one of the first things he did ... pop one of the reserves ... cut
cord from it ...

Your statement of the chronological facts you base Cooper's
alleged priorities on, is false and wrong. It did not happen the
way you say it did. THAT'S THE POINT!

It's just one more in an endless series of what Farflung pointed
out as your "making stuff up" and use of false facts to support
false arguements ... in everything from KC read Dan Cooper
comics at Shemya ... right up to your statements above ...

Facts count. Arent you the guy who has said that here to your
audience 10,000 times as a mantra?

Matt has a damned good important point! Not only Matt
but a number of people say they see traits of professional
training in Cooper's actions. Your recitation however does not
support Matt's idea. Because you can't even get the
chronological facts straight as an illustration what you say
Cooper's priorities were. Especially "if" Cooper was operating
with something as formal as a 'risk-reward plan'.

Maybe somebody else will come along and illustrate it better,
in keeping with the facts of the case. ?

Cooper's training or lack of training has been a central issue in
the Cooper case from the start. Not just in terms of the person's
planning and execution of the crime but in that person's possible
actions after the crime, if he survived. A Vita for Cooper has
been a long-sought important facet of this case, as FBI agents
discussed and actually conducted their investigation!

Your case for KC even used the argument that Kenny had been
formally trained as a parachute jumper!

As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole
matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was
trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been
here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and
professionalism in Cooper's actions.

That is the point of this whole excercise as far as I am
concerned.


(This post was edited by georger on Jul 12, 2013, 12:53 AM)


377  (F 666)

Jul 12, 2013, 1:23 AM
Post #45062 of 52750 (16345 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Georger wrote
Quote:
As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole
matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was
trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been
here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and
professionalism in Cooper's actions.

There are two alleged facts that point to Cooper having parachute experience, but alas neither can be confirmed as accurate.

1. Cooper located and examined the packing card on the NB 8 rig.

2. Cooper donned the NB 8 rig with ease.

Doesn't matter if it was actually an NB 6 for the purpose of this discussion. NB 8 rigs have a VERY well concealed packing card pocket. At the Portland symposium I challenged a non jumper to find it on my stock NB 8 and he was stumped. When I asked another to put the NB 8 on and fasten the straps he had a hell of a time figuring it out. The chest strap arrangement is confusing and even I had trouble the first time I encountered an NB 8.

Can I get an amen Amazon?

377


RobertMBlevins

Jul 12, 2013, 2:49 AM
Post #45063 of 52750 (16323 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Georger says in part:

(In order to answer your points properly, I will break them up and address them one point at a time. Not that you actually deserve this, of course.)

Quote:
'Matt has a damned good important point! Not only Matt but a number of people say they see traits of professional training in Cooper's actions. Your recitation however does not support Matt's idea. Because you can't even get the chronological facts straight as an illustration what you say Cooper's priorities were. Especially "if" Cooper was operating with something as formal as a 'risk-reward plan'.


The 'risk-reward' from Matt might refer to the hijacker's thought-process during the hijacking. Don't you ever try to put your feet into the shoes of the hijacker? Are you kidding or what? Using a possibly fake bomb to extort what would be just over a million dollars today, and with the plan to frickin' jump out the back with the money? You are NOT dealing with reality here. This is not Mr Spock logic and we are not on Star Trek. Or as that kid said in ET - The Extra-Terrestrial:

Quote:
"This is reality, Greg..."

You're cherry-picking. Everyone knows the hijacker left two chutes on board, the Pioneer and the reserve he popped for the paracord. The dummy reserve was never found. Ever ask yourself WHY? It couldn't be attached, it would do the hijacker no good at all. Yet he can be the only person responsible for its disappeance to this day.

Quote:
'Maybe somebody else will come along and illustrate it better, in keeping with the facts of the case. ?'

Robert says: It's tough enough to get the facts straight, I'll give you that. But the timeline of those facts is not the only important thing.

Quote:
'Cooper's training or lack of training has been a central issue in the Cooper case from the start. Not just in terms of the person's planning and execution of the crime but in that person's possible actions after the crime, if he survived. A Vita for Cooper has been a long-sought important facet of this case, as FBI agents discussed and actually conducted their investigation!'

The Seattle FBI thought he was an expert skydiver at first. Now they don't. That is mostly post-Tena Bar stuff. Maybe they are right, maybe they aren't. I think Cooper had SOME experience, otherwise he wouldn't have tried such a thing. As 377 points out, he knew exactly where to find the packing card on the chute he selected.

Quote:
'Your case for KC even used the argument that Kenny had been formally trained as a parachute jumper!'

Well, that's because he joined the US Army paratroopers at the tail end of World War 2. In his unit, two of three washed out of training. The paratroopers had upped the ante on the training by that point in the war. Everyone thought they were going to have to invade Japan to end the war. Fortunately, (depending on your viewpoint) the A-bomb brought an end to that before a full-scale invasion was necessary. He ended up doing the Mail Room in Occupied Japan and doing jumps there when he could. His letters home say so.

Quote:
'As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and professionalism in Cooper's actions.'

Well, he knew what to tell them on the way to Seattle to get his money and parachutes, right? He pointed out Tacoma while they were circling Puget Sound waiting for the money and chutes, right? He wanted the stairs down for some reason at takeoff, correct? He managed to get out the back door somewhere between Seattle and Portland, right? He knew where the O2 was on board 305 if he needed it, the flap settings he wanted, the altitude, etc. (Whether he lived or died in the attempt is open to debate) These things say he had done his research, had some experience with chutes, and may have been from the Puget Sound area. This is a no-brainer in my opinion.

Quote:
'That is the point of this whole excercise as far as I am concerned.'

You and every other Cooper fan. If you want to be taken seriously, you should give it up and go public. That's just an opinion. Hell...everyone knows who you are anyway. Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jul 12, 2013, 3:09 AM)


georger

Jul 12, 2013, 8:53 AM
Post #45064 of 52750 (16262 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

 As 377 points out, he knew exactly where to find the packing card on the chute he selected.
In reply to:

There you go again.

You were there !?

You saw him look "exactly" where to find the packing card?

There is only one place where a packing card would be and only
one explanation for a hijacker opening and looking into the
parachute he has been given by the police .. . Cooper went
straight to that place and looked specifically for that card ?
He wasn't looking for anything else, like a tracking device? Or if
he was or might have been, he wasn't ... because Professor
Blevins knows he wasn't ... because Professor Blevins
was there .... and Professor Blevins knows it when he reads it
and recognizes it for what "it" is ...

therefore, it is.

and, even if we accept your admonition that he knew and was
looking "exactly" where to look... does that prove he was military
trained and an expert, vs. some food service worker who knows
Briam Joyner which served in Vietnam and talks a lot about
parachutes ?

There rest of your diatribe you can sell to whoever will buy it,
and worship you, like Jo does.

Thanks for telling me I am a "Cooper Fan" while you are an
expert.

Quote: Geoffrey Gray: "Blevins? Is he making trouble again? He's a Trouble Maker".


(This post was edited by georger on Jul 12, 2013, 9:02 AM)


Robert99

Jul 12, 2013, 9:09 AM
Post #45065 of 52750 (16253 views)
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Re: [377] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

377 wrote:
Georger wrote
Quote:
As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole
matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was
trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been
here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and
professionalism in Cooper's actions.

There are two alleged facts that point to Cooper having parachute experience, but alas neither can be confirmed as accurate.

1. Cooper located and examined the packing card on the NB 8 rig.

2. Cooper donned the NB 8 rig with ease.

Doesn't matter if it was actually an NB 6 for the purpose of this discussion. NB 8 rigs have a VERY well concealed packing card pocket. At the Portland symposium I challenged a non jumper to find it on my stock NB 8 and he was stumped. When I asked another to put the NB 8 on and fasten the straps he had a hell of a time figuring it out. The chest strap arrangement is confusing and even I had trouble the first time I encountered an NB 8.

Can I get an amen Amazon?

377

The two "alleged facts" 377 mentions above are in Tosaw's book and Tosaw cites Tina as being the source. If these are in fact "facts", then Cooper had at least a minimum amount of training/experience in emergency type parachutes but probably no more.

Since Cooper was expecting to receive back and front parachute rigs, it is unlikely that he would have given any thought to making a jury-rigged attachment of the reserve to the harness until he realized he had no other choice.

If Cooper did use some of the shroud lines from the other reserve to tie the first reserve to the harness, then in my opinion he was doing something very dumb and would have been much better to just jump with a single back pack only.

Even if the missing reserve was fully functional, it is unlikely that it would stay attached to the harness if the reserve rip cord was pulled during a full-blown free fall. A 10+ "g" jerk or impulse load by a 225 pound jump load on a few shroud lines would be more than they could handle.

So Blevins attempts to make a federal case out of what happened to the missing reserve is meaningless. Blevins could use the same arguments to ask what happened to Cooper, the money bag, the missing back chute, the missing food, the "bomb", etc..

Reportedly, an FBI agent stated that "Cooper knew just enough about parachutes to get himself in trouble." That seems to be a very accurate statement.

Robert99


georger

Jul 12, 2013, 9:31 AM
Post #45066 of 52750 (16248 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Robert99 wrote:
377 wrote:
Georger wrote
Quote:
As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole
matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was
trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been
here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and
professionalism in Cooper's actions.

There are two alleged facts that point to Cooper having parachute experience, but alas neither can be confirmed as accurate.

1. Cooper located and examined the packing card on the NB 8 rig.

2. Cooper donned the NB 8 rig with ease.

Doesn't matter if it was actually an NB 6 for the purpose of this discussion. NB 8 rigs have a VERY well concealed packing card pocket. At the Portland symposium I challenged a non jumper to find it on my stock NB 8 and he was stumped. When I asked another to put the NB 8 on and fasten the straps he had a hell of a time figuring it out. The chest strap arrangement is confusing and even I had trouble the first time I encountered an NB 8.

Can I get an amen Amazon?

377

The two "alleged facts" 377 mentions above are in Tosaw's book and Tosaw cites Tina as being the source. If these are in fact "facts", then Cooper had at least a minimum amount of training/experience in emergency type parachutes but probably no more.

Since Cooper was expecting to receive back and front parachute rigs, it is unlikely that he would have given any thought to making a jury-rigged attachment of the reserve to the harness until he realized he had no other choice.

If Cooper did use some of the shroud lines from the other reserve to tie the first reserve to the harness, then in my opinion he was doing something very dumb and would have been much better to just jump with a single back pack only.

Even if the missing reserve was fully functional, it is unlikely that it would stay attached to the harness if the reserve rip cord was pulled during a full-blown free fall. A 10+ "g" jerk or impulse load by a 225 pound jump load on a few shroud lines would be more than they could handle.

So Blevins attempts to make a federal case out of what happened to the missing reserve is meaningless. Blevins could use the same arguments to ask what happened to Cooper, the money bag, the missing back chute, the missing food, the "bomb", etc..

Reportedly, an FBI agent stated that "Cooper knew just enough about parachutes to get himself in trouble." That seems to be a very accurate statement.

Robert99

We also know he voiced the expectation that the chutes might
be coming from MCChord, a military source. It makes sense he
would open and inspect those chutes to look for anything
suspicious. THAT was one of his first actions (priorities)
witnessed by Tina and others; not cutting cord FIRST as
Blevins states it. Cutting cord comes much later.

And we know there were "issues" with the chutes McChord had
planned to send.

Cooper opened, inspected, and accepted the chutes brought in
and given.

We don't know if He commented and said anything technical to
Tina about the chutes he was given and checking out ... there
is nothing about that in the record so far.


Robert99

Jul 12, 2013, 10:09 AM
Post #45067 of 52750 (16236 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:
Cooper opened, inspected, and accepted the chutes brought in and given.

We don't know if He commented and said anything technical to Tina about the chutes he was given and checking out ... there is nothing about that in the record so far.

Georger, Let me point out that your use of the term "opened" above does not mean that he pulled the rip cord and looked into the pack itself. If he did, he would NEVER get that thing repacked in that airliner cabin.

Any inspection that Cooper made would probably just involve exposing the rip cord pins by unsnapping the flap covering them and checking that the rigger's seal was unbroken as well as checking the rigger's packing card.

This is a routine "pre-flight" inspection for emergency parachutes, as opposed to being a "pre-jump" inspection. It doesn't require any skill and only very minimal training.

Robert99


georger

Jul 12, 2013, 10:54 AM
Post #45068 of 52750 (16228 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

Robert99 wrote:
georger wrote:
Cooper opened, inspected, and accepted the chutes brought in and given.

We don't know if He commented and said anything technical to Tina about the chutes he was given and checking out ... there is nothing about that in the record so far.

Georger, Let me point out that your use of the term "opened" above does not mean that he pulled the rip cord and looked into the pack itself. If he did, he would NEVER get that thing repacked in that airliner cabin.

Any inspection that Cooper made would probably just involve exposing the rip cord pins by unsnapping the flap covering them and checking that the rigger's seal was unbroken as well as checking the rigger's packing card.

This is a routine "pre-flight" inspection for emergency parachutes, as opposed to being a "pre-jump" inspection. It doesn't require any skill and only very minimal training.

Robert99
In reply to:
Good point! LaughLaugh Thanks!


Amazon  (D License)

Jul 12, 2013, 11:37 AM
Post #45069 of 52750 (16214 views)
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Re: [377] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

377 wrote:
Georger wrote
Quote:
As a general premise and sometime historian of this whole
matter, I am interested in anyone showing that Cooper was
trained at all - in anything! Professionals like Farflung have been
here and evidently failed to see any clear signs of training and
professionalism in Cooper's actions.

There are two alleged facts that point to Cooper having parachute experience, but alas neither can be confirmed as accurate.

1. Cooper located and examined the packing card on the NB 8 rig.

2. Cooper donned the NB 8 rig with ease.

Doesn't matter if it was actually an NB 6 for the purpose of this discussion. NB 8 rigs have a VERY well concealed packing card pocket. At the Portland symposium I challenged a non jumper to find it on my stock NB 8 and he was stumped. When I asked another to put the NB 8 on and fasten the straps he had a hell of a time figuring it out. The chest strap arrangement is confusing and even I had trouble the first time I encountered an NB 8.

Can I get an amen Amazon?

377

Amen Brother 377

( As an aside.. want to bet I could roll up the main lift webbing on an NB-6 or NB-8 and get it to go into the rather large clips as found on many chest mounted reserves that are supposed to clip onto the D-ring equipped harnesses we used to use back in the day??) Angelic


RobertMBlevins

Jul 12, 2013, 11:56 AM
Post #45070 of 52750 (16205 views)
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Re: [georger] Sheridan Peterson [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:
Robert99 wrote:
georger wrote:
Cooper opened, inspected, and accepted the chutes brought in and given.

We don't know if He commented and said anything technical to Tina about the chutes he was given and checking out ... there is nothing about that in the record so far.

Georger, Let me point out that your use of the term "opened" above does not mean that he pulled the rip cord and looked into the pack itself. If he did, he would NEVER get that thing repacked in that airliner cabin.

Any inspection that Cooper made would probably just involve exposing the rip cord pins by unsnapping the flap covering them and checking that the rigger's seal was unbroken as well as checking the rigger's packing card.

This is a routine "pre-flight" inspection for emergency parachutes, as opposed to being a "pre-jump" inspection. It doesn't require any skill and only very minimal training.

Robert99
In reply to:
Good point! LaughLaugh Thanks!

Yeah...well...I get the idea it takes a minimum of training to even consider the idea you might be able to jump out the back of a moving jet at 175MPH and survive. Now...it IS true that some skyjackers have done it without training, but Cooper may have given up some of his identity when he went for that packing card on the NB-6 like he did.

The quotes by Tina about the hijacker and his inspection of the parachute card, the donning of the parachute without any trouble, etc this was also mentioned by Geoff Gray. And we know Gray also got to examine the original witness reports at the Seattle FBI office.

I personally think that whomever Cooper was, there are two things you could say about him. First, he probably wasn't a civilian jumper. If he was, he might have gone for the sport model Pioneer. Second, the way he latched onto the NB-6/8 container makes me believe he learned whatever he knew about skydiving from the military. He was familiar with the NB-6, and he made mention of McChord. This guy was a local, IMHO. Maybe he missed the dummy chute for what it was, at least initially, because he'd never seen a civilian-type dummy chute before. And I still think it's strange that the non-working chute was never found.

According to FBI transcripts, by the time that Mucklow delivered the last of the back chutes, the hijacker was already busy cutting cords and wrapping the bag. This means he at least had the opp to examine the front chutes while she was busy hauling in the others. And he had already popped the one working front chute for those cords. I think at this point he already knew the dummy trainer was a non-starter, and this also leads me to believe he had no intention of even using a reserve, maybe because of the additional load he was already going to try jumping with, i.e. the money bag and briefcase.

There is NO evidence to suggest that the hijacker intended to somehow tie the non-working reserve to himself. But...this is one thing that's always been a mystery to me. If he knew it didn't work, where did it go? Why didn't he leave it on board with the Pioneer and the popped reserve? Just doesn't make sense. This is why I think he may have tossed it out the back a minute or two before he jumped, perhaps as a red herring for any possible searchers on the ground. Wasn't the dummy chute marked as such? Trainer or whatever? I can't recall at the moment.

Local guy or not? Ex-military or not? You decide:

Here are five things that make me think D.B. Cooper was Local to the Puget Sound Area and probably ex-military:

1) Pointing out Tacoma during the flight.

2) The mention of the chutes maybe coming from McChord. This also points to a possible military background.

3) Stairs Down on Takeoff, Please: Why the hell would the hijacker want that if he were planning to jump in the Eugene area or something? He was planning to jump the moment that jet got to a decent altitude. So he had a reason for this request, and the most likely reason was a quick exit. Why? Shorter walk home. Wink

4) Instant familiarity with the NB-6 and its packing card location...when he didn't know in advance what type of chutes would be delivered to him. Coincidence, or military training? I say the latter. Chutes might come from McChord, he says. Well, they didn't. But look what just arrived: Hey, it's a military NB-6. Let's take THAT one. Smile

5) The selected flight: Portland to Seattle, then out of Seattle again for a jump, probably while they would still be climbing out of SeaTac. ("I want to take off with the stairs down...")

It's occurred to me that Cooper's casual remark about the chutes possibly coming from McChord might be because he was HOPING they would come from McChord...just a thought. And guess which one he picked anyway? Wink

In the lack of other evidence, then some evidence must come from each and every action of the hijacker, no matter how insignificant, and each and every word that came from his mouth.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jul 12, 2013, 12:35 PM)


377  (F 666)

Jul 12, 2013, 12:50 PM
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Amazon wrote
Quote:
( As an aside.. want to bet I could roll up the main lift webbing on an NB-6 or NB-8 and get it to go into the rather large clips as found on many chest mounted reserves that are supposed to clip onto the D-ring equipped harnesses we used to use back in the day??)

I tried it Amazon, hoping to demo this at the Portland symposium, and it was a no go. NB 8 webbing even when rolled was too big to fit within my 60s vintage military chest reserve attachment clips. If the clips were just a bit bigger it might work.

Catching any big salmon this season? Been some hot King Salmon bites 14 miles off the coast, SE of the Farallon Islands, big ones. Blue whales are wowing tourists in Monterey Bay. Many people don't know that they are the largest animal that has lived on Earth. Most think dinosaurs were way bigger.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Jul 12, 2013, 12:53 PM)


Robert99

Jul 12, 2013, 1:28 PM
Post #45072 of 52750 (16139 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] BLEVINS COMMENTS ON COOPER & PARACHUTES [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
Yeah...well...I get the idea it takes a minimum of training to even consider the idea you might be able to jump out the back of a moving jet at 175MPH and survive.

I personally think that whomever Cooper was, there are two things you could say about him. First, he probably wasn't a civilian jumper. If he was, he might have gone for the sport model Pioneer. Second, the way he latched onto the NB-6/8 container makes me believe he learned whatever he knew about skydiving from the military.

And he had already popped the one working front chute for those cords. I think at this point he already knew the dummy trainer was a non-starter, and this also leads me to believe he had no intention of even using a reserve, maybe because of the additional load he was already going to try jumping with, i.e. the money bag and briefcase.

There is NO evidence to suggest that the hijacker intended to somehow tie the non-working reserve to himself.

Blevins, You continue to make assumptions that are based on wild speculations only. Following is a discussion of some of them.

It really doesn't take any specific training to make and survive an emergency parachute. The "minimum" training for such an action used to be "jump, count to 10, and pull the ripcord".

Prior to the development of civilian sports parachutes, all skydiving jumps that I have heard about used surplus military equipment. It was cheap, good, and hogged by the jumpers on the west coast, which means we had a hard time finding equipment on the east coast.

All of my jumps in the early 1960s used surplus military parachutes with a 28 foot canopy that had been modified to a "5-TU" configuration. When the main canopy didn't get the job done, then the military surplus 24 foot reserve canopy did. I speak from experience on this matter.

So you can not claim that Cooper was a military trained jumper simply based of the fact that he was familiar with military equipment. And it has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, Cooper said that he did not want military parachutes from McChord. It may have been because it was widely known at that time that the military parachutes contained a radio beacon to help the Search and Rescue people locate the jumper.

If Cooper didn't originally plan to use a reserve parachute then why did he specifically ask for two of them? This is evidence that he intended to use a reserve chute as part of a back/chest two chute rig. If he did jury-rig a chest chute to the harness, it was simply a last minute action rather than something he had planned to do from the outset.

Robert99


RobertMBlevins

Jul 12, 2013, 1:41 PM
Post #45073 of 52750 (16132 views)
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Re: [Robert99] BLEVINS COMMENTS ON COOPER & PARACHUTES [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, yes...I have made some assumptions. But those assumptions are based on things the hijacker actually requested, or his actions, or things he said during the course of the hijacking. They are not 'wild speculations'.

As I said, in the lack of other evidence, you have to look at what happened. Words from his mouth, his decisions, his actions, portions of the known evidence that can be verified.

Sure, it's possible the hijacker somehow tied the non-working reserve to his chest. Maybe. It's just as possible he tossed it away for one of two reasons: In anger, or as a red herring for ground searches.

If he actually stated he didn't WANT a military chute, or specifically a military chute from McChord, then why would he immediately choose the NB-6 as his jump vehicle? I think the reason he asked for multiple parachutes was to discourage the FBI from giving him ones that didn't work. He was 75% successful on that one. Cool


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jul 12, 2013, 1:51 PM)


Robert99

Jul 12, 2013, 1:50 PM
Post #45074 of 52750 (16124 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] BLEVINS COMMENTS ON COOPER & PARACHUTES [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
Well, yes...I have made some assumptions. But those assumptions are based on things the hijacker actually requested, or his actions, or things he said during the course of the hijacking. They are not 'wild speculations'.

As I said, in the lack of other evidence, you have to look at what happened. Words from his mouth, his decisions, his actions, portions of the known evidence that can be verified.

Sure, it's possible the hijacker somehow tied the non-working reserve to his chest. Maybe. It's just as possible he tossed it away for one of two reasons: In anger, or as a red herring for ground searches.

If he actually stated he didn't WANT a military chute, or specifically a military chute from McChord, then why would he immediately choose the NB-6 as his jump vehicle? I think the reason he asked for multiple parachutes was to discourage the FBI from giving him ones that didn't work.

Blevins, To answer your question, Cooper probably selected the NB-6 because he knew it didn't come from McChord, was packed by a civilian, etc.

Robert99


377  (F 666)

Jul 12, 2013, 1:55 PM
Post #45075 of 52750 (16119 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] BLEVINS COMMENTS ON COOPER & PARACHUTES [In reply to] Can't Post

The smart thing he did to discourage sabotaged chutes was to request two of each. It gave the impression that he might force a crew member to jump.

Sure wish we knew for sure whether Tina saw him remove the packing card from an NB 6 or NB 8. If Cooper did that without fumbling around then he very likely was familiar with that rig type.

The money find drives me nuts. I cant figure it out.
I stare at my Cooper twenty and wish I could cross examine it.

They say money talks. This twenty has apparently taken the fifth.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Jul 12, 2013, 1:56 PM)


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