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How many repairs are too many?

 

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xijonix  (C License)

Jul 8, 2013, 8:35 AM
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How many repairs are too many? Can't Post

I have one professional patch on my canopy that was done before I purchased it. After giving it a thorough inspection this past weekend I noticed a few 0-1cm tears in various locations along the top skin. So how is one to judge when a canopy has too much damage and is not worth fixing and should "small" tears such as these be cause for concern?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 8, 2013, 9:21 AM
Post #2 of 27 (4154 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

xijonix wrote:
I have one professional patch on my canopy that was done before I purchased it. After giving it a thorough inspection this past weekend I noticed a few 0-1cm tears in various locations along the top skin. So how is one to judge when a canopy has too much damage and is not worth fixing and should "small" tears such as these be cause for concern?

If they're smaller than 1 ripstop square, it's not worth the repair.

It would depend on the location of the hole and what the grouping is (several in one area or across the canopy from each other).


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 8, 2013, 10:23 AM
Post #3 of 27 (4067 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

How big is a ripstop square?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 8, 2013, 10:42 AM
Post #4 of 27 (4010 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

xijonix wrote:
How big is a ripstop square?

That depends on the ripstop used. Wink

The squares are visible when you look at the fabric. For darker colors, you may need to put some sort of light behind it, though I wouldn't suggest you just take your hot lantern or similar. If in doubt, take it to a rigger and ask their advice.

DO NOT USE A LIGHTER FOR BACKLIGHT! LaughLaugh


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 8, 2013, 10:53 AM
Post #5 of 27 (3989 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Year of manufacture?
How many holes?
1 cm is cause for concern. Location compared with a seam.
General condition?
Number of jumps?

Post some pictures...

Just relaying what the rigger next to me said.....

And there is some information somewhere regarding criteria about the life of canopies somewhere, no one in the room can remember if it's from PD or not at the moment....

C


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jul 8, 2013, 10:54 AM)


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jul 8, 2013, 4:06 PM
Post #6 of 27 (3743 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

xijonix wrote:
How big is a ripstop square?

You are joking. Please tell me you are joking.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 8, 2013, 6:35 PM
Post #7 of 27 (3668 views)
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

GLIDEANGLE wrote:
xijonix wrote:
How big is a ripstop square?

You are joking. Please tell me you are joking.
Careful...The Nanny Nazis will sniff that out.
LaughLaugh


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 8, 2013, 6:37 PM
Post #8 of 27 (3662 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

popsjumper wrote:
GLIDEANGLE wrote:
xijonix wrote:
How big is a ripstop square?

You are joking. Please tell me you are joking.
Careful...The Nanny Nazis will sniff that out.
LaughLaugh

Careful!
Nanny Nazis hate jokes!
Hah!
Hah!


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 9, 2013, 6:44 AM
Post #9 of 27 (3453 views)
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

GLIDEANGLE wrote:
xijonix wrote:
How big is a ripstop square?

You are joking. Please tell me you are joking.

Jim, I think its a valid question for one with 100 jumps.


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 9, 2013, 7:05 AM
Post #10 of 27 (3430 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

It was indeed a serious question. I take from the earlier comment they are the squares visible up close on the fabric.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 9, 2013, 8:08 AM
Post #11 of 27 (3375 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

The supposition is that someone with 100 jumps might actually have been close to a parachute, maybe touched the fabric, and considered looking at it. Unless the whole DZ only flies ZPX.

.... OK, I just did a test. At 6' from parachute fabric, I can see the squares on it, with near 20/20 vision. The view is much better and clearer from about 3' away.

So there are those who hope that someone with 100 jumps has at some time been within 3' of a parachute, with eyes open (and with corrective lenses if physiologically required).


Edit: Usually I try to be nice to newbies. Today though, I'm feeling a little sarcastic. Time to get off DZ.com for a while.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Jul 9, 2013, 8:09 AM)


wildcard451  (D License)

Jul 9, 2013, 8:44 AM
Post #12 of 27 (3337 views)
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Re: [pchapman] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

pchapman wrote:
The supposition is that someone with 100 jumps might actually have been close to a parachute, maybe touched the fabric, and considered looking at it. Unless the whole DZ only flies ZPX.

.... OK, I just did a test. At 6' from parachute fabric, I can see the squares on it, with near 20/20 vision. The view is much better and clearer from about 3' away.

So there are those who hope that someone with 100 jumps has at some time been within 3' of a parachute, with eyes open (and with corrective lenses if physiologically required).


Edit: Usually I try to be nice to newbies. Today though, I'm feeling a little sarcastic. Time to get off DZ.com for a while.

No, you're right.

To quote my coach from this weekend - "You're not paying me to suck your dick. That costs double"


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 9, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #13 of 27 (3255 views)
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Re: [pchapman] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

I never actually knew what the squares were or what they were called. I always noticed them, but just thought that had something to do with how the fabric was manufactured. The only time I've ever heard the term "ripstop" is in regards to some tape that can be used to fix small tears, but have heard that it causes a bigger problem than it fixes.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 9, 2013, 11:22 AM
Post #14 of 27 (3211 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

xijonix wrote:
I never actually knew what the squares were or what they were called.

To be more helpful this time around:
Yup, it is those approx 1/8" divisions that are the "squares". There's nothing sacrosanct about the difference between a 1 square long tear vs. a 2 square long tear, but "less than 1 square" in size is often used as a guide to what is a small tear not worth fixing. And that's true even in the PD reserve manual, for example.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 9, 2013, 4:57 PM
Post #15 of 27 (3109 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jonathan,

If you're still at Raeford, please go see any of the riggers - You may run into SlotPerfect.


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 11, 2013, 6:55 AM
Post #16 of 27 (2857 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

After giving it another once-over, I managed to get some pictures. When looking at the nose of the canopy, they are all on the cell to the left of the center cell but a few feet apart.
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theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 11, 2013, 8:49 AM
Post #17 of 27 (2767 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

xijonix wrote:
After giving it another once-over, I managed to get some pictures. When looking at the nose of the canopy, they are all on the cell to the left of the center cell but a few feet apart.

Honestly, I PERSONALLY would continue to jump it without repair. The ones in the black fabric are barely noticeable, the others are just slightly more noticeable.

If you want to get them patched, that's your call, but it would end up likely with a much bigger patch, it's a bitch to make small patches. LaughLaugh


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 11, 2013, 10:40 AM
Post #18 of 27 (2691 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Second, the ...

Whaat he said:

I wouldn't bother....

Canopy looks fairly new from your pictures, age is important, so again how old is this thing?

Cause if you tell me this canopy is 14 years old I'm gonna start askin if every inch has been given this same screwtenty? I suspect if you found these small ones , your doing a great job with inspecting on a regular basisWink

Does it have a history, I mean tree, bush, are you flippin it into the ground to deflate it? That kind of stuff?

Like did it happen as your walking back and it snagged and then you inspected it? As compared with pulling it out of storage after a few years?
C


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 11, 2013, 11:55 AM
Post #19 of 27 (2660 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Cause if you tell me this canopy is 14 years old I'm gonna start askin if every inch has been given this same screwtenty?

Its a 2001 Triathlon. It still has the original lineset that is now due for a reline so I suspect it has around 600 Jumps or so. I give it a good looking over every month or so. Every stitch, every seam, every line attachment point, top skin and bottom skin I go over.


flyhi  (D License)

Jul 12, 2013, 4:32 AM
Post #20 of 27 (2548 views)
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Re: [xijonix] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you ever cock or re-cock the pilot chute when the canopy is in the bag? I have been told that can trap nylon and cause small tears like that. Not sure if that is true or not, but this is Dropzone.com. In a very short time, someone will post and tell you why that is the stupidest thing they have ever heard.

After being told that, however, I have made sure my PC was fully cocked prior to putting it in the bag and have had no tears like your canopy exhibits. YMMV.

Happy Aloha Friday!


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 12, 2013, 5:22 AM
Post #21 of 27 (2522 views)
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Re: [flyhi] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

flyhi wrote:
Do you ever cock or re-cock the pilot chute when the canopy is in the bag? I have been told that can trap nylon and cause small tears like that. Not sure if that is true or not, but this is Dropzone.com. In a very short time, someone will post and tell you why that is the stupidest thing they have ever heard.

After being told that, however, I have made sure my PC was fully cocked prior to putting it in the bag and have had no tears like your canopy exhibits. YMMV.

Happy Aloha Friday!

I would expect it to look more burned if cocking the PC was the cause, these look like they got poked by something during packing or picking it up after landing.

But I guess anything is possible.


xijonix  (C License)

Jul 12, 2013, 7:48 AM
Post #22 of 27 (2455 views)
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Re: [flyhi] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Do you ever cock or re-cock the pilot chute when the canopy is in the bag? I have been told that can trap nylon and cause small tears like that. Not sure if that is true or not, but this is Dropzone.com. In a very short time, someone will post and tell you why that is the stupidest thing they have ever heard.

I do sometimes if I forget to do it before, but then the damage would on the tail of the center cell only which it is not so I don't believe that is the problem.


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 12, 2013, 8:03 AM
Post #23 of 27 (2443 views)
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Re: [flyhi] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

flyhi wrote:
Do you ever cock or re-cock the pilot chute when the canopy is in the bag? I have been told that can trap nylon and cause small tears like that. Not sure if that is true or not, but this is Dropzone.com. In a very short time, someone will post and tell you why that is the stupidest thing they have ever heard.

After being told that, however, I have made sure my PC was fully cocked prior to putting it in the bag and have had no tears like your canopy exhibits. YMMV.

Happy Aloha Friday!


I think the real danger of cocking your PC while the canopy is in the bag, is the fact that it may not fully "cock," and if their is trapped material, esp if you have an open kill line, the kill line will actually go to a non-cocked position as the bag pushes on it. Has anyone every done this to see? We did it the other day on some new bridals, with fully enclosed kill lines. The bridal bunched up like an accordion with all of the folds you would expect, and when we opened the pack job the PC was practically in the full kill position! All of the accordion folds pushed back, the section in the bag wouldn't go to where it needed to be cause the canopy prevented this. (cocking the pc when the canopy was completely in the bag.)

Made a very, very strong argument for cocking the pc first!

C

The center cells, take a hit cause of fingernails, dirt, rough surfaces, wood floors (splinters,) and the fact that so many are laying on them during packing, as just a few examples of the increased wear. I'm not sure as you point out about causing small tears, (cocking the pc when the canopy is in the bag already) but cocking the pc when the canopy is already in the bag is a really bad idea for the other reason, it might not work!

C


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 12, 2013, 9:20 AM
Post #24 of 27 (2426 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
I think the real danger of cocking your PC while the canopy is in the bag, is the fact that it may not fully "cock," and if their is trapped material, esp if you have an open kill line, the kill line will actually go to a non-cocked position as the bag pushes on it. Has anyone every done this to see?
Yep, I watched a packer I was training do exactly that, and the pilot chute kept "re-killing" itself. I agree with you. It's definitely wrong to not cock the pilot chute before bagging the canopy.

Tandem drogues are a different matter.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 13, 2013, 1:29 PM
Post #25 of 27 (2275 views)
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Re: [flyhi] How many repairs are too many? [In reply to] Can't Post

flyhi wrote:
Do you ever cock or re-cock the pilot chute when the canopy is in the bag? I have been told that can trap nylon and cause small tears like that. ...

...................................................................................

That depends upon which model of kill-line you have. On one end of the argument: the last Racer I repacked, the kill-line was exposed to the main canopy, inside the d-bag and could easily grab a handful of canopy fabric if you tried to cock it too late in the packing process. That would cause large tears and burns to the canopy.

OTOH, my Talon 2 has the kill-line completely concealed in the bridle, so the chances of main canopy damage are nil.

In the end, it does not matter whether you try to cock model "A" or model "B" too late in the packing process, because with both modlls, your greatest risk is only half-cocking your pilot-chute and towing it all the way to the planet.


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