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Breaking a bad habit?

 


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 2, 2013, 10:41 PM
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Breaking a bad habit? Can't Post

I've gotten into a bad habit of tucking my left leg up immediately after pitching. To some extent I'm even flying with my left leg slightly cocked, but I don't even notice it in freefall.

The problem is that on the snivelly canopy I'm jumping it consistently causes line twists and is going to result in a chop sooner or later. When I consciously point my toes during deployment I get nice on heading openings. The problem is its a habit to bring my left leg up, so any distraction like watching for traffic and I revert to the old behaviour.

Any suggestions on.breaking a bad habit?


jono  (C 298258)

Jul 2, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tie a length of string from your balls to your toe with only enough slack to allow you to bend your leg a little bit.
I reckon you'll have that habit broken in no time. CoolAngelic


(This post was edited by jono on Jul 2, 2013, 11:06 PM)


GooniesKid

Jul 3, 2013, 12:21 AM
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Re: [jono] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

jono wrote:
Tie a length of string from your balls to your toe with only enough slack to allow you to bend your leg a little bit.
I reckon you'll have that habit broken in no time. CoolAngelic

LOl...what a troll answer...and here I thought I was the only notorious troll on the forums. Well played. I formally announce you sir as my apprentice padawan.


JackC1

Jul 3, 2013, 1:55 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Studies suggest it takes up to 2 months of daily repetition for something to become a habit and early repetitions have a bigger effect on retention than later ones, as does positive feedback reinforcement. If you have a bad habit, the only way to break it is to consciously replace the wrong thing with the right thing and do it repeatedly. It requires a sustained conscious effort, there are no short cuts.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 3, 2013, 4:01 AM
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Re: [JackC1] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
Studies suggest it takes up to 2 months of daily repetition for something to become a habit and early repetitions have a bigger effect on retention than later ones, as does positive feedback reinforcement. If you have a bad habit, the only way to break it is to consciously replace the wrong thing with the right thing and do it repeatedly. It requires a sustained conscious effort, there are no short cuts.

I suspected that may be the case. It just frustrates me, as on 'normal' jumps I'm focussing on feet and knees together during deployment This weekend we did bigways and the last thing I needed was a canopy that wasn't fully flying with 26 other people all around. I was focussed on looking for traffic during deployment so my legs went to their natural position. Fortunately I just pointed myself away from traffic and kicked the twists out - did mean I landed off.


JackC1

Jul 3, 2013, 5:12 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Think of it like this: say you've got $10 worth of concentration, if you spend it all on the jump and don't save a couple of $$ for pull time, you'll never fix your problem. A couple of bucks is all it takes.


(This post was edited by JackC1 on Jul 3, 2013, 5:18 AM)


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 3, 2013, 7:03 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Pushups.


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 3, 2013, 8:02 AM
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Re: [JackC1] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
Studies suggest it takes up to 2 months of daily repetition for something to become a habit and early repetitions have a bigger effect on retention than later ones, as does positive feedback reinforcement. If you have a bad habit, the only way to break it is to consciously replace the wrong thing with the right thing and do it repeatedly. It requires a sustained conscious effort, there are no short cuts.

And what studies would those be?

We are speaking about "habitation" and this generally can take place in 3 to 7 nights....Same to extinguish same behavior.

If yo can get this on vid, frequently seeing what you are doing can be a big help.

I would say just concentrate on your opening, I mean the whole dive dedicated to just one thing. Not having a RW jump / and at the end start to try to change stuff....

One jump one learning!

And or start jumping and putting your hands to the small of your back or grab the bottom of your container. Both hands and arms! You can fly reasonably well with just your legs and watch what happens to your arch as wellSmile Practice turns, F/B, etc. Your flying should improve dramatically!

C


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jul 3, 2013, 8:25 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

nigel99 wrote:

I suspected that may be the case. It just frustrates me, as on 'normal' jumps I'm focussing on feet and knees together during deployment This weekend we did bigways and the last thing I needed was a canopy that wasn't fully flying with 26 other people all around.

Another point of view would be... don't do anymore Bigways until you sort out your opening problems? Shocked


JackC1

Jul 3, 2013, 9:10 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
And what studies would those be?

Lally, P., van Jaarsveld, C. H. M., Potts, H. W. W., & Wardle, J. (2010). How are habits formed: Modelling habit formation in the real world. European Journal of Social Psychology, 40, 998-1009.

But I'm sure you know better.


evan85  (C 41367)

Jul 3, 2013, 9:14 AM
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Re: [ChrisD] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
And or start jumping and putting your hands to the small of your back or grab the bottom of your container. Both hands and arms! You can fly reasonably well with just your legs and watch what happens to your arch as wellSmile Practice turns, F/B, etc. Your flying should improve dramatically!

Not sure this is a good idea for someone who is already having body position problems. Putting both hands behind your back/on your BOC can result in a more head-down attitude, which is not something you want at pull time.


aeio540  (A 69716)

Jul 3, 2013, 11:34 AM
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Re: [evan85] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

As a newbie, this is what helps me break bad habits:

Practice on the floor at home.

I've only got 10 jumps in so take my advice with a very sizeable chunk of salt.

That's how I worked on my arch, deployment, and back loops.

Anytime I'm unsure about something I'll practice it on my floor/bed, couch.

I'm guessing that if you start tucking in your leg, you'll feel it when you "deploy" on your floor. Also it'll help you with if your arms and legs are uneven.

Again, Dislcaimer: 10 measly jumps, grain of salt.


jono  (C 298258)

Jul 3, 2013, 2:54 PM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I probably shouldn't but I'm going to have a second crack at this... put your rig on, get on a creeper pad and practice pitching 20 - 30+ times in a row (wouldn't worry about repacking the bridle in between) and even better if you can do this in front of a mirror then immediately repack the PC and bridle and go jump. Keep doing this till you find yourself doing it without having to think about it. Repetetion to enforce muscle memory is the key just like practicing EPs.
If that doesn't work.......I still say try the string.Smile


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 3, 2013, 2:56 PM
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

skyjumpenfool wrote:
nigel99 wrote:

I suspected that may be the case. It just frustrates me, as on 'normal' jumps I'm focussing on feet and knees together during deployment This weekend we did bigways and the last thing I needed was a canopy that wasn't fully flying with 26 other people all around.

Another point of view would be... don't do anymore Bigways until you sort out your opening problems? Shocked

That's sound advice.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 3, 2013, 3:10 PM
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Re: [jono] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, solid idea on dirt diving my opening. Either on a creeper or the student ep hanging harness.

It's not during the pitch that's an issue, but during the snivel. Canopy stands me up and I adopt the skygod foot behind the knee poseLaugh as opposed to the Lego man pose that students take (feet straight and 30 degrees apart). Ye old Sabre that I jumped for the last couple of years opened so quick it always beat me to itTongue

I'll be on Creepers for 4 way, I'll add deployment too the dirtdive and I'm sure it will help thanks.


Bertt  (D 99999)

Jul 3, 2013, 3:54 PM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I was focussed on looking for traffic during deployment

How about looking for traffic before deployment, then hold a heading during deployment. Don't worry about where your legs are. Just pick an object in the distance and hold a heading on it while you pull and count to 5.


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 4, 2013, 9:15 AM
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Re: [evan85] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

evan85 wrote:
ChrisD wrote:
And or start jumping and putting your hands to the small of your back or grab the bottom of your container. Both hands and arms! You can fly reasonably well with just your legs and watch what happens to your arch as wellSmile Practice turns, F/B, etc. Your flying should improve dramatically!

Not sure this is a good idea for someone who is already having body position problems. Putting both hands behind your back/on your BOC can result in a more head-down attitude, which is not something you want at pull time.

Not at pull time , but as a flying exercise, and this is something you can do at a tunnel as well.
C


ChrisD  (No License)

Jul 4, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Re: [JackC1] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
ChrisD wrote:
And what studies would those be?

Lally, P., van Jaarsveld, C. H. M., Potts, H. W. W., & Wardle, J. (2010). How are habits formed: Modelling habit formation in the real world. European Journal of Social Psychology, 40, 998-1009.

But I'm sure you know better.

Did you actually read that thing? Perhaps habit is the wrong word to use? So this habit according to that research actually started in adolesnce?

My point was rather obscure, I'll admit. The problem starts with just one bit of obscure research, that isn't really research and has limited predictive value. This is the problem when quoting research on habits or any thing involved with learning theory. The research you quoted really has nothing to do with recency, primacy, or the last thing you hear...Do you understand trying to model behaivior to fit a particular curve and what all that means?

If you want to quote research then perhaps the face validity of tying a string as one novel solution may have a more successful outcome than doeing something and waiting upwards of 90 - 120 days to form a correct habit?

Nigel There is some truth to doing something that you will defenatly remember as a learning experience...While I can't condone tying a string to ones balls, the effect of a strong stimulus or increased stress can work wonders. In this case then, the string thing or something that would have great meaning might be more effective.

This is why filming oneself can be a great tool!

I myself frequently "forget" to fully flare. I like to touch the toggles to my lower thighs at or just before I hit each and every time. Sometimes in high winds I do the girl thing and raise my arms up high. (No disrespect to any female intended, although if you want to point out how words can effect behavior, go ahead.)

Anyways I had no idea that I was doing this arm raising thing until I saw the vid. For me seeing that I was in fact doing something that I was convinced I was not was a profound experience.

If you have a profound learning experience like this then you will correct the behaivior very quickly. The problem is what is profound to you, this is sort of a learning thing and varies quite a bit!

This is one of the best things about a tunnel and a good coach, you can spot this kind of thing in the tunnel and generally there is lots of good vid to be had.


Or you could just obsess and have a real scarey dream about a monster line twist in your reserve after the first really scarey bad opening and this might push you enough to fully concentrate on this behavior change you want to make.

Do the visualization thing! Visualization can be a powerfull tool to help you! And be POSITIVE. Do not visualize negative outcomes!!!!!

And since you mentioned checking for traffic, take a moment and make a few jumps free of traffic or anything else that could distract you so that you can concentrate!

C
You got this by the way!!! Smile

Just do it and make the change!!!


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Jul 4, 2013, 2:28 PM)


JackC1

Jul 4, 2013, 3:33 PM
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Re: [ChrisD] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thrilling Unimpressed


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 5, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Re: [BIGUN] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

BIGUN wrote:
Pushups.

Hey it works at airborne school, why not here?Laugh


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 8, 2013, 5:27 AM
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Re: [theonlyski] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Jul 8, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do a few hop and pops so you can focus most of your attention to the opening and canopy flight.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're doing with your leg though... are you bringing your left leg in to a fetal position?

To solve the left leg issue you can try opening directly after tracking, that way your leg is already pushed out? Some may argue that opening in a track isn't a good idea, but as long as you're not too head-low there's nothing wrong with itSmile


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 8, 2013, 5:06 PM
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Re: [DcloudZ] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

DcloudZ wrote:
Do a few hop and pops so you can focus most of your attention to the opening and canopy flight.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're doing with your leg though... are you bringing your left leg in to a fetal position?

To solve the left leg issue you can try opening directly after tracking, that way your leg is already pushed out? Some may argue that opening in a track isn't a good idea, but as long as you're not too head-low there's nothing wrong with itSmile

It's pretty simple really. Having uneven weight on your harness at higher wingloading and a slow opening is a recipe for twists. I naturally stand with my weight on my right leg, all it takes is lifting my left leg a couple of inches during the snivel and I can induce linetwists. During the bigways I was wearing more than 10% of my body weight in lead as I was in the base - that didn't help.

Anyway did a bunch of 4 way and was fine, it's a matter of refining body position. Student canopies and lower wingloading all you really need is shoulders square. One of the guys I was jumping with this weekend had developed bad habits that he got away with on his Sabre 2 for hundreds of jumps, he'd only just moved across to a highly loaded katana and his habits were causing issues on the katana.

I guess its a small part of the downsize equation that isn't always considered.


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Jul 9, 2013, 6:09 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Breaking a bad habit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have a long snivelling moderately loaded elliptical. The long snivel allows me to make up for any small mistakes by putting small inputs to correct it. I've not had anything more than a half twist..



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