Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Reserve bridle through main riser

 


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 22, 2013, 11:10 PM
Post #1 of 19 (4287 views)
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Reserve bridle through main riser Can't Post

https://vimeo.com/68934659
Discuss.


(This post was edited by DSE on Jun 22, 2013, 11:19 PM)


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jun 22, 2013, 11:43 PM
Post #2 of 19 (4218 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow.

What rig, main and reserve?
What kept the reserve in the container?
It seems the jumper goes sideways with hands by the reserve handle at deployment.
Was the handle pulled or dislodged? AAD fire?

I have seen a couple of pop top type rigs get damaged with a partial reserve PC being ripped off by the deploying main at high speed.

Fill in the blanks Spot...


BigMark  (D 17505)

Jun 22, 2013, 11:51 PM
Post #3 of 19 (4205 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like main pilot chute hesitation, jumper goes straight to reserve just as main deploys?


piisfish

Jun 23, 2013, 4:42 AM
Post #4 of 19 (4083 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems like an out of sequence emergency procedure.
Had he cut away after that, he would have had a MARD Laugh


virgin-burner

Jun 23, 2013, 4:59 AM
Post #5 of 19 (4053 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

piisfish wrote:
Seems like an out of sequence emergency procedure.
Had he cut away after that, he would have had a MARD Laugh

i think that's what i would have done.. Crazy


irishrigger  (D 297)

Jun 23, 2013, 6:40 AM
Post #6 of 19 (3951 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

from the RPC looks like a wings container to me.
i agree with incorrect EP, propably a pilot chute in tow due to uncocked main pilot chute???
what ever happend to arching when pulling your reserve, one can clearly see a De-arch when reserve handle was pulled. if main had not opened at that time reserve bridle could have been wrapped aroung the jumper and not through the risers of the main.
but the main thing is that we are reading about this in this forum and not as another fatality in the incident forum.SmileSmileSmile
any idea as to expierience level to this Person?

I hope that this video will be an eye opener for a lot of people. i think a lot of expierienced people have become way to complacent with EP. and there is a very growing and disturbing trend occuring of people doing incorrect EP procedures.MadMadPiratePirate

blue and save jumping all

Rodger


(This post was edited by irishrigger on Jun 23, 2013, 10:27 AM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jun 23, 2013, 6:57 AM
Post #7 of 19 (3926 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

I would interpret that as a p/c in tow followed by a decision not to cutaway then a two handed reserve pull. The cut away or not procedure has been debated thoroughly with no resolution. You should indeed maintain an arch while deploying your reserve, but it could be difficult to do that while pulling with both hands. One or two hand training? Another endless debate, but I think two hand training is just plain stupid FWIW.

I don't really see where he made any other mistakes. Sometimes you just have to act now, and that is what he did.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jun 23, 2013, 8:45 AM
Post #8 of 19 (3833 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Little confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment and then why these two things happen at 1:07 & 1:08
Was there a pitch, then over adrenaline on a hesitation resulting in reserve pull?
Many questions.
Attachments: 1 07.JPG (14.9 KB)
  1 08.JPG (14.1 KB)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 23, 2013, 8:55 AM
Post #9 of 19 (3818 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

irishrigger wrote:
I hope that this video will be an eye opener for a lot of people. i think a lot of expierienced people have become way to complacent with EP. and there is a very growing and disturbing trend occuring of people doing the correct EP procedures.MadMadPiratePirate

I've nearly finished an edited version speaking to each of the issues, but felt it's worth getting out there for discussion without my editorial input.
The jumper has been in the sport a long time, but I wouldn't call this person an "active jumper."

One of the questions asked upon examination of the rig was "Should I have cut away after my main deployed?"

Some answered that "The main would merely have been a MARD deployment."

I'm not so sure this would have been that simple.

It almost seems we need Safety Day in June.Unimpressed


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 23, 2013, 2:38 PM
Post #10 of 19 (3531 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Video has now been updated to include more information and call-outs.

What I didn't put in there, was that the jumper would have likely been better off not unstowing toggles, as there was RPC/Bridle housekeeping to do. Having the canopy fly more slowly would have eliminated the turn (that increased pressure on the RPC) and allowed for a more calm response to the situation.
It wasn't a good place to be, but there are several actions that could have happened after the deployment that may have further reduced risk.


(This post was edited by DSE on Jun 23, 2013, 5:41 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jun 26, 2013, 9:42 PM
Post #11 of 19 (2831 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn!

I remember pulling my drogue out of my reserve lines once.Wink Kinda looked like that. Laugh


grue  (D License)

Jun 26, 2013, 10:35 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2799 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

BIGUN wrote:
Little confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment

First time at DZ, first jump in a while, etc perhaps?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 26, 2013, 10:46 PM
Post #13 of 19 (2789 views)
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Re: [grue] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

grue wrote:
BIGUN wrote:
Little confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment

First time at DZ, first jump in a while, etc perhaps?

If I didn't know the jumper and their currency, that would be my first thought too. (Unfortunately?) that's not the case.


-ftp-

Jun 27, 2013, 5:01 AM
Post #14 of 19 (2562 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main.


Deimian

Jun 27, 2013, 5:49 AM
Post #15 of 19 (2513 views)
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Re: [-ftp-] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

-ftp- wrote:
Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main.

What would be the appropriate response there? Hook knife to the rear main riser before cutting away? But just if you really have to cut away, I imagine it can be a side by side that can stay stable. I guess. I have a hook knife on my rig and I hope I would never ever have to use it. Chances are that I will ruin my shinny underwear if I have to Laugh.


-ftp-

Jun 27, 2013, 6:21 AM
Post #16 of 19 (2473 views)
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Re: [Deimian] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

Deimian wrote:
-ftp- wrote:
Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main.

What would be the appropriate response there? Hook knife to the rear main riser before cutting away? But just if you really have to cut away, I imagine it can be a side by side that can stay stable. I guess. I have a hook knife on my rig and I hope I would never ever have to use it. Chances are that I will ruin my shinny underwear if I have to Laugh.

well my thought is if you don't realize that its through the riser and you cut away your main, your in for a world of hurt with nothing but chance left to save you. Cutaway main could choke the reserve as it travels up the lines.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 27, 2013, 10:16 AM
Post #17 of 19 (2358 views)
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Re: [-ftp-] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

-ftp- wrote:
Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main.

This is one of the considerations, yes. Some feel that the main would act as a MARD, and all would be well. I'm not so sure, given the short length between the riser and the bridle attachment on the freebag, plus the RSL,
Might have worked, might not have. Fortunately, we have a learning experience without an associated injury.


topdocker  (D 12018)

Jun 27, 2013, 10:41 AM
Post #18 of 19 (2348 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts on the appropriate response would be:

* Do not unstow the brakes.

* Reel in the RPC and control it.

* Gently reel in the reserve bridle so that it does not have so much drag as to pull the reserve from the pack tray.

* Unstow the brakes and gently bring the canopy to full flight.

* If you had a mal when you unstowed the brakes, chop and release the RPC. I thnk the riser/bridle entanglement would act as a MARD.

* Slow turns and gentle return to the landing area.

I have seen this on one other occasion. Jumper opened in this configuration but soon his freebag was in the slider. I was able to top dock him and let him use both hands to reel in his RPC. He then chose to remove it with his hook knife and toss it, leaving the freebag/reserve in his hands. He landed uneventfully. Sorry, no video.....

top


-ftp-

Jul 1, 2013, 8:27 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1811 views)
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Re: [DSE] Reserve bridle through main riser [In reply to] Can't Post

DSE wrote:
-ftp- wrote:
Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main.

This is one of the considerations, yes. Some feel that the main would act as a MARD, and all would be well. I'm not so sure, given the short length between the riser and the bridle attachment on the freebag, plus the RSL,
Might have worked, might not have. Fortunately, we have a learning experience without an associated injury.

my thougt was the reserve is pulled through the risers, then opens when the free bag is pulled off. now you have a 2 out but the reserve risers are passed through the main risers. If you are not aware what is going on, and you chop the main, it will travel up the reseve lines and possibly choke the reserve.



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