Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
water landing procedure

 


andy2

Apr 16, 2003, 7:34 AM
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is it always a good idea to cutaway from your parachute once you've touched water? Do people actually do this if youre close to shore with no real danger of drowning? I imagine cutting away would be more suited if you landed in a river or real far off the shore. Am I right?


Vallerina  (C License)

Apr 16, 2003, 7:37 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

No, I don't think so. My guess is that if you cutaway, that won't change the fact you'll still be underneath your canopy trying to find your way out. Cutting away and still wearing your rig will just make it more difficult to swim away from it (I'm guessing it much easier to dive down and swim away from it without 15 pounds of stuff on your back.)

Also, even if you're close to shore, there is still a very real danger of drowning.


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Apr 16, 2003, 8:10 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

During my water training I was taught to loosen up the container leg straps and undo the chest strap just prior to landing in the water. Then once you're in the water, you swim out of the container (and we did all of this in a swimming pool which was easy to do). Of course I don't have any real life water landings to compare the training with.


Ronnie  (D 26484)

Apr 16, 2003, 8:25 AM
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Re: [CanuckInUSA] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't loosen the leg straps until you are in the water. If you loosen them prior to the water, you will sink and not be able to flare as good. You want to land just like you would on regular ground, nice and soft. Once in the water, lossen the leg straps and swim out.


riddler  (D 10234)

Apr 16, 2003, 8:42 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

If you have an RSL, cutting away could be more dangerous. If you forget to disconnect it, it will open the reserve chamber and the reserve will fall out. This will get wet and help drag you down.

Here is what I was taught. Prepare by loosening chest strap. Flare and PLF into water. Once in the water, remove chest strap and loosen leg straps and swim down and away from the rig, avoiding lines. You will have one or two minutes before the water seeps into the reserve container and adds significantly to your weight. Don't try to save the rig. If you have friends with a boat, they will come by later and use the anchor (or something else) to drag your rig back to the surface. Your cypress is probably toast. If it's salt water, your rig is probably toast.

This is only what I was taught. It's never happened to me.


Craig

Apr 16, 2003, 8:49 AM
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Re: [Ronnie] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

If you leg straps are loosened you flare will be higher than normal (in the toggle range that is.) I would not be concerned with this myself. In response to the comment about cutting away from the main when you hit the water and swimming away. It is going to be pretty hard to swim down and away from the canopy and lines with a container on your back, since the reserve container will be keeping you bouyant. And if you are having any kind of problems, or a long swim ahead, that last thing you want is a container that is getting gradually heavier cause the reserve container is now taking on water.


(This post was edited by Craig on Apr 16, 2003, 8:51 AM)


Clownburner  (B 26842)

Apr 16, 2003, 8:54 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

According to the SIM, you should only cutaway if you know the water is deep.

My home DZ is pretty close to a lake (maybe 1.5 miles) and I've had several instructors tell me that cutting away on any water landing is not such a good idea.

Drowning is almost always the result of panic, which is why they want you to do 'wet' water landing training before you get your B license.

Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about.


(This post was edited by Clownburner on Apr 16, 2003, 8:55 AM)


andy2

Apr 16, 2003, 9:11 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

are AAD's ruined in water landings? Or is there only a chance they will be ruined?


Cajones  (D License)

Apr 16, 2003, 9:11 AM
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Re: [Craig] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely teach to remove the chest strap, if possible. It doesn't keep you in the harness, once you're under canopy. Also, disconnect the RSL, just in-case you need to cutaway.

I also teach to loosen the legs straps a bit, but point out you don't want to loosen them so much you can't reach the toggles. The inch or two of extra flare you gain by being lower from loose leg straps is small. If you are jumping a micro canopy, where an inch makes a big difference, you should have enough experience to compensate.

We even practice this in the hanging harness to see how easy it is to remove the chest strap and loosen the leg straps a bit.

This makes it very easy to get out of the harness after entering the water.

The reserve will definitely be positively buoyant after entering the water. Depending on the container, it will float for some time. It will also make you float face-down (bad thing), and make it difficult to free your legs once you get your shoulders out.

Additional concerns include: Land as if it were flat, solid ground, preparing to PLF (you never know exactly how deep it is), land as much-as-you-can facing into the wind (no Stupid Low Altitude Maneuvers/SLAMs - just like landing on the ground), land as close to the shore as you can (it's generally shallower and it's easier to get to dry ground or be rescued), clear the canopy from your head by following a seam to the edge (you can't breath through zero-p, and once F-111 is saturated it "sticks" to you making it very difficult to get out from under), get out of your gear, and swim upstream(if in moving water).

A cutaway is typically only needed if the landing is in moving water, such as a river, that can cause the main to drag you with the current.


Cajones  (D License)

Apr 16, 2003, 9:14 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

AAD's can definitely be ruined by water landings. There is a kit available for the Cypress AAD that give a small amount of protection from water landings.

If you land in the water with your Cypress, it needs to be sent to Germany from a thorough check-up from the manufacturer.

If you are unfortunate enough to land in water with your AAD, get your gear out of the water as fast as possible, and remove the reserve and AAD from the container ASAP.


crwmike  (D 6139)

Apr 16, 2003, 9:14 AM
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, it took 29 years of skydiving before I finally had a water landing. I've always kept B-12's (yeah, I know, WTF is a B-12?) for this reason and was quite happy to have them.

I landed in deep water with a strong current. At about 6-700 feet (when it became glaringly obvious a water landing was going to happen) I unbuckled my chest strap, and popped one B-12 (feels a little ...tentative but made no difference in landing [or is that watering?]), hit the water and popped the other B-12 ...was out of my harness within seconds of hitting the water.

Wind direction? Cross wind provides the best bet to not have your canopy on top of you.

I did learn a couple of lessons.

1) Wear flotation gear when a water landing is *possible*

2) It was a chilly, early morning jump and I had several layers of clothes on, the top most a heavy pullover which I could NOT get off in the water. Had there not been a handy boat nearby (actually I aimed for it) well, the water was deep and I was getting deeper in shit. Soooo, I only wear clothes with snaps now.

BSBWD,

Michael


reply]is it always a good idea to cutaway from your parachute once you've touched water? Do people actually do this if youre close to shore with no real danger of drowning? I imagine cutting away would be more suited if you landed in a river or real far off the shore. Am I right?


crwmike  (D 6139)

Apr 16, 2003, 9:19 AM
Post #12 of 15 (927 views)
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Re: [Cajones] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Listen to this guy ...except land cross wind :)

Michael

In reply to:
I definitely teach to remove the chest strap, if possible. It doesn't keep you in the harness, once you're under canopy. Also, disconnect the RSL, just in-case you need to cutaway.

I also teach to loosen the legs straps a bit, but point out you don't want to loosen them so much you can't reach the toggles. The inch or two of extra flare you gain by being lower from loose leg straps is small. If you are jumping a micro canopy, where an inch makes a big difference, you should have enough experience to compensate.

We even practice this in the hanging harness to see how easy it is to remove the chest strap and loosen the leg straps a bit.

This makes it very easy to get out of the harness after entering the water.

The reserve will definitely be positively buoyant after entering the water. Depending on the container, it will float for some time. It will also make you float face-down (bad thing), and make it difficult to free your legs once you get your shoulders out.

Additional concerns include: Land as if it were flat, solid ground, preparing to PLF (you never know exactly how deep it is), land as much-as-you-can facing into the wind (no Stupid Low Altitude Maneuvers/SLAMs - just like landing on the ground), land as close to the shore as you can (it's generally shallower and it's easier to get to dry ground or be rescued), clear the canopy from your head by following a seam to the edge (you can't breath through zero-p, and once F-111 is saturated it "sticks" to you making it very difficult to get out from under), get out of your gear, and swim upstream(if in moving water).

A cutaway is typically only needed if the landing is in moving water, such as a river, that can cause the main to drag you with the current.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 16, 2003, 3:12 PM
Post #13 of 15 (891 views)
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Re: [andy2] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

>is it always a good idea to cutaway from your parachute once you've touched water?

Depends. If winds are high, perhaps. If those high winds are going to pull you out of the water, perhaps not; but be very cautious with this trick. If water is shallow, then don't cut away at all; you may need the extra deceleration the main will provide until you've stopped. If you will need your reserve for flotation (and it does float for a minute or two) then cut away once you're in the water. If you land facing into the wind the parachute will tend to collapse behind you and be out of the way for the most part.

I've landed in water perhaps half a dozen times (all on BASE jumps; most were with a 'standard' skydiving rig.) I only cut away once, and even that wasn't really neccessary.

Also note that if you do try to drag a parachute out of the water, don't drag it by the lines! Best way is to find the tail, bunch it up and pull it that way. You can use the bridle attach to get it above the water if neccessary.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 16, 2003, 3:14 PM
Post #14 of 15 (888 views)
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Re: [crwmike] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

>At about 6-700 feet (when it became glaringly obvious a water
> landing was going to happen) I unbuckled my chest strap, and
> popped one B-12 (feels a little ...tentative but made no difference
> in landing [or is that watering?]),

This works with larger canopies, but be careful doing this with very small canopies. At best you will have to steer against the now-built-in turn; at worst you will see a rapid and unexpected turn, and will get wet much sooner than anticipated.


crwmike  (D 6139)

Apr 16, 2003, 4:40 PM
Post #15 of 15 (877 views)
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Re: [billvon] water landing procedure [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Bill My age and limited experience with "smaller canopies" is showing, I guess. I'm jumping a PD Lightning 176 and it is the smallest canopy I have ever jumped. As it is a CRW canopy, it is built for stability and will allow me to do all this without creating new problems.

In reply to:
>At about 6-700 feet (when it became glaringly obvious a water
> landing was going to happen) I unbuckled my chest strap, and
> popped one B-12 (feels a little ...tentative but made no difference
> in landing [or is that watering?]),

This works with larger canopies, but be careful doing this with very small canopies. At best you will have to steer against the now-built-in turn; at worst you will see a rapid and unexpected turn, and will get wet much sooner than anticipated.



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