Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129?

 


sebinoslo  (B 96611)

Apr 24, 2013, 2:27 AM
Post #1 of 15 (3719 views)
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Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? Can't Post

Hi,

i have 400 jumps, 250 on the Pilot 140 and i'm looking to get a crossfire 2 (only heard great things about it, be it openings, glide, flare).
To be clear; I don't "swoop": i only use double-front risers on occasions if my final leg is too long.

I have had one "bad" landing in the last 150 jumps (end of a hot day in Eloy, overshooting the grass and not running fast enough to avoid tumbling in the dirt)

With that in mind, I wonder if I should buy a 139 (changing only canopy type) or if going directly down to a 129 is a good alternative. I have heard roughly 50/50 from the people I have asked directly so I'm asking here now to get a more complete picture.

thanks!


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Apr 24, 2013, 3:54 AM
Post #2 of 15 (3664 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Might be worth taking into consideration that Icarus recommend a minimum wingloading of 1.4 on the Crossfire 2, you'd be underloading a 139, and also a 129 if your profile is correct.....


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Apr 24, 2013, 6:01 AM
Post #3 of 15 (3593 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hupra is correct.

If you do not load a Xfire at a min of 1.4, you will have spent your money for naught.

Food for thought. Having said that, if you have no intention of swooping, save your money, go to a couple of boogies where vendors are in attendance, test jump several canopies and decide again next year.

Most of my canopies were Safires or Xfires.


DougH  (D License)

Apr 24, 2013, 6:53 AM
Post #4 of 15 (3562 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

You have a decent loading on the 140, you claim that you're not swooping, so why the desire to switch over to a full elliptical?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 24, 2013, 9:05 AM
Post #5 of 15 (3487 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

>i have 400 jumps, 250 on the Pilot 140 and i'm looking to get a crossfire 2 (only heard
>great things about it, be it openings, glide, flare).

I would strongly recommend a Safire2 129 instead. You'll get very similar performance without the off-heading issues of the xfire.


Rover  (D 241)

Apr 24, 2013, 1:18 PM
Post #6 of 15 (3367 views)
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Re: [billvon] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got about a 1000 jumps on a Crossfire and have had no problems with off heading openings! Crazy

However i think you are very much at the low end jump nuber wise to move up to a Crossfire. Smile


sebinoslo  (B 96611)

Apr 24, 2013, 11:44 PM
Post #7 of 15 (3234 views)
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Re: [billvon] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi and thanks for taking the time to look at my query!

In reply to:
Might be worth taking into consideration that Icarus recommend a minimum wingloading of 1.4 on the Crossfire 2, you'd be underloading a 139, and also a 129 if your profile is correct.....

Profile is not really updated. I would load the 139 at 1.3 and the 129 at 1.4.

In reply to:
You have a decent loading on the 140, you claim that you're not swooping, so why the desire to switch over to a full elliptical?

Mostly based on the feedback i got regarding openings, glide (coming back from long spots) and flare. The Crossfire was also presented as a good entry to the full elliptical canopy world and an overall great canopy.

In reply to:
I would strongly recommend a Safire2 129 instead. You'll get very similar performance without the off-heading issues of the xfire.

Due to norwegian regulations i am not allowed to jump a 129 until i have 600 jumps. I should have been clearer in my request: moving to a full elliptical 139 during this season (keeping size but changing type) or wait 200 jumps to downsize to a 129. The subsequent question would be, is it "smart" to go from a 140 pilot to a 129 XF2 at 600 jumps or should i get (for example) a saphire2 129 first (at 600 jumps) and later a XF2 129 (say 700-800 jumps)?

Obviously "keep your pilot 140 and forget the XF2" is also a welcome answer (based on WL, experience, lack of swooping...)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 25, 2013, 10:30 AM
Post #8 of 15 (3115 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

> I should have been clearer in my request: moving to a full elliptical 139 during
>this season (keeping size but changing type) or wait 200 jumps to downsize to a 129.

Both can work IF you put the time into learning how to fly them. In other words, moving to a full-elliptical 139 might be worthwhile if you learn to fly it well (and want a more aggressive canopy later) but if not you're spending more money for not a lot of return, and a slight increase in risk.

Overall I suspect you would be happier on the 129 Safire2 after 200 more jumps just based on my experience seeing other people use them; most people just really like the mid-size Safire2's and unless you are swooping you don't see much improvement going to the more expensive XF2. I recently bought a Safire2 119 as a more-conservative canopy so that on low wind days, or days where I expect crowded skies, I can jump the larger canopy.


EppyNephrine  (F 111)

Apr 25, 2013, 11:38 AM
Post #9 of 15 (3087 views)
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Re: [billvon] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Crossfires are a hell of a lot more eliptical than saffires, and thusly way more fun to fly in the sky. Openings (including heading) are great as long as you don't 'over think' the packjob. However, given the highly-eliptical shape of a Xfire, when they start to mal, goddamn do they start to mal...

A lot of folks suggest 100 jumps per .1 WL. ie 100 jumps 1.1, 200 jumps 1.2, 300 jumps 1.3, etc. And at 400 jumps, you seem to fit the model.

Yes, the xfire is more performance. But it lacks the stupid long recovery arc that is associated with most Xbraced canopies and the Katana. I would compare it more to a Samurai or Stiletto.

I don't know your specific canopy flight abilities, but I would say that a pilot around your jump numbers who is heads up and on top of his game would have no issue with that canopy.


andy1  (D 70243)

Apr 30, 2013, 12:43 AM
Post #10 of 15 (2840 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hei Seb
You're probably going to do this anyway - but check with your HI before you put in an order, just to ensure you don't buy something he won't let you use :)


sebinoslo  (B 96611)

Apr 30, 2013, 12:45 AM
Post #11 of 15 (2838 views)
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Re: [andy1] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hei Seb
You're probably going to do this anyway - but check with your HI before you put in an order, just to ensure you don't buy something he won't let you use :)

Hi, Mox was the first I asked about it and he is fine with the 139 from this season onward Smile


rrmtopo  (C License)

May 4, 2013, 12:05 AM
Post #12 of 15 (2688 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Question, why just the consideration for downsizing from your Pilot to a Safire? If you're not swooping and like the flat glide why not a smaller Pilot (I see a lot of high jump number folks who don't swoop jumping higher loaded Pilots)....and I fly a Pilot loaded at 1.35 so just curious.


Premier rwieder  (C 32349)

May 5, 2013, 4:37 AM
Post #13 of 15 (2602 views)
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Re: [sebinoslo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

Get a X-Fire 139. I fly a 149-169 & a 189. There really cool.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

May 9, 2013, 5:28 AM
Post #14 of 15 (2377 views)
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Re: [rrmtopo] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would do the same - just get a slightly smaller Pilot.

I've gotten a bit heavier lately and am now loading my Pilot at about 1.8; it's gotten a little bit fussy landing straight-in though it's still good with front riser approaches

But, below 1.7, smaller Pilots were great fun each time. I've had my current one for about 400 jumps.

I'm experimenting with a borrowed Sabre2 and a Crossfire2, both the same size(ish) as my Pilot, and will see how that goes. I suspect the Crossfire will win out on fun factor though Wink


sebinoslo  (B 96611)

Jul 29, 2013, 1:42 AM
Post #15 of 15 (1817 views)
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Re: [Joellercoaster] Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is where i ended up: going for a pilot 124. I'm closing on 200 jumps in 4 months so far this year so I'll be current enough to downsize a bit more than usual (HI agrees).

Unfortunately new rig and canopy won't arrive before early november/december so I'll keep my current rig as well to refresh everything after the winter break and get used to the 124 when wind is fine. I was thinking of putting 50 jumps on the 124 in good/decent wind conditions before selling the safe/gustproof 140 Smile



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