Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Leg strap an inch from being detached

 


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 29, 2013, 12:07 PM
Post #1 of 22 (3510 views)
Shortcut
Leg strap an inch from being detached Can't Post

I jumped a Mirage2 yesterday. The container was a bit of a tight fit & the leg straps too tight on the first jump of the day. Loosening it felt better for the next couple of jumps but then the end of the leg straps barely reached to pocket in the upper leg strap. The elastic bands seem to keep them in place but they were frayed.

I was rushing to get on one more load when I realized that the elastic band on the right strap was missing.
I made the straps a little tighter & tucked them into the pocket. I made sure they stayed there when I was exiting the plane.
Presumably the right leg strap loosened during my dive bc when my canopy opened it was pulling to the left. My leg strap felt tighter in the left side so I tried leaning to the right which lessened the pull but not much. I couldn't look down bc the chest strap was right under my chin.

I did a controllability check & it seemed landable (although my right toggle had to stay almost to my head with my left hand fully extended to keep it flying straight). Landing was ok.

On the ground I found that my right leg strap was loosened all the way to the end. I don't think it would have pulled through but still.. not good.

So other than rushing to get on the load instead of getting a replacement band for the right strap, what else did I do wrong? I spoke to one of the instructors briefly. Just looking for any more comments.


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Apr 29, 2013, 12:09 PM
Post #2 of 22 (3480 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it seems like you were looking at the wrong piece of hardware. If your problem is that one leg strap is looser than the other, the problem wouldn't be in the elastic band (which is there to keep excess leg strap from flapping around) - it would be in the friction adapter that actually holds the leg straps in place.

Advice? Have a rigger look at the friction adapters before you make another jump on that rig. (And if it's rental gear, call the DZ and ask them to pull that rig for inspection).


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Apr 29, 2013, 12:10 PM)


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 29, 2013, 12:46 PM
Post #3 of 22 (3427 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it seems like you were looking at the wrong piece of hardware. If your problem is that one leg strap is looser than the other, the problem wouldn't be in the elastic band (which is there to keep excess leg strap from flapping around) - it would be in the friction adapter that actually holds the leg straps in place.

Advice? Have a rigger look at the friction adapters before you make another jump on that rig. (And if it's rental gear, call the DZ and ask them to pull that rig for inspection).

It was a rental. I will contact the DZ.

The thing is the friction adapter seemed fine. I pulled on it a few times & it didn't appear to be slipping when loaded. So my guess was that it loosened during my dive due it flapping around. NO FF. Just basic belly with some barrel rolls.
I know I have had them flap around at least once in the past with no issues so maybe it is the friction adapter. Thanks alot. Glad I posted this.


Bertt  (D 99999)

Apr 29, 2013, 2:33 PM
Post #4 of 22 (3316 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
container was a bit of a tight fit & the leg straps too tight on the first jump of the day.
A container that doesn't fit right is trouble waiting to happen. See if the DZ has a container that fits you better. When you buy gear, don't get a container that "almost" fits just because the price is good.


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 29, 2013, 2:55 PM
Post #5 of 22 (3298 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Bertt] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
container was a bit of a tight fit & the leg straps too tight on the first jump of the day.
A container that doesn't fit right is trouble waiting to happen. See if the DZ has a container that fits you better. When you buy gear, don't get a container that "almost" fits just because the price is good.

Good point.

The other container with the canopy I like is even worse. I just need to get my own rig already. I expected to have one already but I put on ~10-20lbs since last season & I wanted to loose a few before being measured but if I can't find a used one with a decent fit in the next week I think I'll just buy a new one.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:01 PM
Post #6 of 22 (3285 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds to me like your DZ has some shit rental gear. Is it all that way?


uberchris  (A License)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:07 PM
Post #7 of 22 (3270 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Bertt] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
container was a bit of a tight fit & the leg straps too tight on the first jump of the day.
A container that doesn't fit right is trouble waiting to happen. See if the DZ has a container that fits you better. When you buy gear, don't get a container that "almost" fits just because the price is good.

fuck man, i had bought an old talon container, and the guy said it would fit 6'2" which was a load of shit........regardless i jumped it for about 60 or so jumps, and the leg straps would BARELY tighten at all, let alone tuck into the pockets. sometimes on opening, i would start spiraling to the right or left because of this issue, and of course the one time my wingsuit arm zippers decided to get stuck, i opened up into a spiral that worsened by each rotation. i ALMOST cutaway and then was able to unzip my wingsuit and unstow, and it fixed the problem. i sold the rig a few days later and got something that fit. it wasnt worth the potential shitstorm i was putting myself in


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:50 PM
Post #8 of 22 (3233 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Andy9o8] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sounds to me like your DZ has some shit rental gear. Is it all that way?

I've jumped his rig dozens of times last season with no issues. I also checked to see if the leg strap would slip by pulling up on it when I had it on. It didn't slip at all.

Still if it was a bad friction adapter, that really sucks. In any case, I'm lad that the stitching on the harness held.


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:56 PM
Post #9 of 22 (3220 views)
Shortcut
Re: [uberchris] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
container was a bit of a tight fit & the leg straps too tight on the first jump of the day.
A container that doesn't fit right is trouble waiting to happen. See if the DZ has a container that fits you better. When you buy gear, don't get a container that "almost" fits just because the price is good.

fuck man, i had bought an old talon container, and the guy said it would fit 6'2" which was a load of shit........regardless i jumped it for about 60 or so jumps, and the leg straps would BARELY tighten at all, let alone tuck into the pockets. sometimes on opening, i would start spiraling to the right or left because of this issue, and of course the one time my wingsuit arm zippers decided to get stuck, i opened up into a spiral that worsened by each rotation. i ALMOST cutaway and then was able to unzip my wingsuit and unstow, and it fixed the problem. i sold the rig a few days later and got something that fit. it wasnt worth the potential shitstorm i was putting myself in

shitstorm sums it up well... I'm ordering a rig this week.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 29, 2013, 4:00 PM
Post #10 of 22 (3213 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

FYI while slipping friction adapters is annoying and can create problems (i.e. off heading/bad openings, chinstrap hitting you) it is rarely dangerous. You won't fall out unless the rig fits poorly to begin with, and even if it gets to the end of the webbing it won't become detached.

That being said it's a good thing to get fixed before your next jump. Friction adapter springs can help, as can better stowing of the webbing excess. (Often flapping straps manage to work themselves looser.) Replacement of friction adapters and/or legstrap webbing is the "right" fix.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Apr 29, 2013, 7:25 PM
Post #11 of 22 (3092 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

hopefully you learned something about loose leg straps and chest straps under your chin...not good.


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 30, 2013, 2:39 AM
Post #12 of 22 (2971 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
FYI while slipping friction adapters is annoying and can create problems (i.e. off heading/bad openings, chinstrap hitting you) it is rarely dangerous. You won't fall out unless the rig fits poorly to begin with, and even if it gets to the end of the webbing it won't become detached.

That being said it's a good thing to get fixed before your next jump. Friction adapter springs can help, as can better stowing of the webbing excess. (Often flapping straps manage to work themselves looser.) Replacement of friction adapters and/or legstrap webbing is the "right" fix.

I have a feeling the strap was flapping & did work itself looser. I will make them aware of it.

Thanks.


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 30, 2013, 2:46 AM
Post #13 of 22 (2968 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hopefully you learned something about loose leg straps and chest straps under your chin...not good.

Not good. It makes it harder to check for traffic when the chinstrap feels like a noose.

And although flaring with my right hand lower than the left may sound simple, I fluffed it toward the end on my first two practice flares up high. The flare would start out fine & then pull pretty hard to the left because I was not maintaining the distance between the left & right toggles at the end of the flare.

It's a good thing that canopy has plenty of flare.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Apr 30, 2013, 6:45 AM
Post #14 of 22 (2905 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

Two possible things:
1. The real danger of loose leg straps or a rig that doesn't fit you properly or a rig with loose/worn adjustable MLW such as many student rigs have is that, on opening, that chest strap could come up very quickly, snag your chin and pop you head back....maybe breaking your neck. That's why I said, "not good".

2. Steering/flaring a canopy with an asymmetrical weight distribution is not all that hard in most cases. As an option to having to flare asymmetrically, here's something else you can do:

Let's say the weight is on the left (right-side leg strap loose or whatever) causing a harness turn to the left. Release the brakes. You'll want to stop/slow the turn by pulling the right-side brake line.

Reach up with your left hand, grab the right toggle and pull until the turn stops/slows adequately and hold it there as the canopy flies straight.

Now, with your right hand, grab the right-side brake line up just below the guide ring. This becomes your "new right-side toggle full-up position". Now you can take the left side toggle in your left hand and you have a balanced brake position left-to-right.

Note that some people may not have the grip strength necessary to hold on to the brake line itself and may have to "take a wrap" on the line...be aware that taking a wrap could present other problems if a breakaway becomes necessary.

You won't have to maintain an asymmetrical hand position for landing.

Be aware that your flare is going to be different than what you are used to so do several practice flares up high to get a good feel for what's going to happen on landing. One danger is potentially stalling one side of the canopy on landing (right-side in this case)

If anyone wants to call BS, I'm listening....

Handling asymmetrical canopies is not something that is taught in canopy courses. But then, there's an awful lot more that's not taught in those courses, too.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Apr 30, 2013, 7:23 AM
Post #15 of 22 (2870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

well I call BS...
BUt not on YOU pops....Wink


more on the OP for overexaggerating the issue, to the point of saying "being detached"Unimpressed


as billvon points out, the confluence wrap and stitching is WELL designed to PREVENT,,,,,any such disconnect...
It sounds like the legstrap may have slipped ON opening...which is a gear maintenance issue for sure...but Not some Catastrophic Emergency. IF the chest strap IS in your face, or 'choking you '... AND the canopy is open, square and controllable...Why Not simply Loosen the chest strap?????Shocked

Rental gear at ANy DZ should receive the Same , maybe MORE inspection, care and REPAIR/replacement as the DZOs personal rig, or the rigs of ANy of the staff..... Rental gear is often treated much more roughly and gets beat up much more quickly, when used by lowtimers, or those who just may "jump it and dump it"...Unsure

Maybe SOME DZ's log and/or keep track of TOTAL jump numbers on such gear.. but rental rigs CAN accumulate hundreds or thousands of jumps,,,pretty quickly, bringing with That,,,issues like harness slippage, 3 ring cable maintenance , riser ring "set" and P.C./ bridle and closing loop wear & tear...

good deal shibu to get GOOD quality gear of Your OWN....that FITS!!!
good luck

jmy


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 30, 2013, 10:35 AM
Post #16 of 22 (2797 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Two possible things:
1. The real danger of loose leg straps or a rig that doesn't fit you properly or a rig with loose/worn adjustable MLW such as many student rigs have is that, on opening, that chest strap could come up very quickly, snag your chin and pop you head back....maybe breaking your neck. That's why I said, "not good".

2. Steering/flaring a canopy with an asymmetrical weight distribution is not all that hard in most cases. As an option to having to flare asymmetrically, here's something else you can do:

Let's say the weight is on the left (right-side leg strap loose or whatever) causing a harness turn to the left. Release the brakes. You'll want to stop/slow the turn by pulling the right-side brake line.

Reach up with your left hand, grab the right toggle and pull until the turn stops/slows adequately and hold it there as the canopy flies straight.

Now, with your right hand, grab the right-side brake line up just below the guide ring. This becomes your "new right-side toggle full-up position". Now you can take the left side toggle in your left hand and you have a balanced brake position left-to-right.

Note that some people may not have the grip strength necessary to hold on to the brake line itself and may have to "take a wrap" on the line...be aware that taking a wrap could present other problems if a breakaway becomes necessary.

You won't have to maintain an asymmetrical hand position for landing.

Be aware that your flare is going to be different than what you are used to so do several practice flares up high to get a good feel for what's going to happen on landing. One danger is potentially stalling one side of the canopy on landing (right-side in this case)

If anyone wants to call BS, I'm listening....

Handling asymmetrical canopies is not something that is taught in canopy courses. But then, there's an awful lot more that's not taught in those courses, too.

Always glad to learn another way to do things.

I appreciate it.


shibu  (C 42074)

Apr 30, 2013, 10:38 AM
Post #17 of 22 (2793 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jimmytavino] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well I call BS...
BUt not on YOU pops....Wink


more on the OP for overexaggerating the issue, to the point of saying "being detached"Unimpressed

sorry to disappoint... Crazy

In reply to:
as billvon points out, the confluence wrap and stitching is WELL designed to PREVENT,,,,,any such disconnect...
It sounds like the legstrap may have slipped ON opening...which is a gear maintenance issue for sure...but Not some Catastrophic Emergency. IF the chest strap IS in your face, or 'choking you '... AND the canopy is open, square and controllable...Why Not simply Loosen the chest strap?????Shocked

Rental gear at ANy DZ should receive the Same , maybe MORE inspection, care and REPAIR/replacement as the DZOs personal rig, or the rigs of ANy of the staff..... Rental gear is often treated much more roughly and gets beat up much more quickly, when used by lowtimers, or those who just may "jump it and dump it"...Unsure

Maybe SOME DZ's log and/or keep track of TOTAL jump numbers on such gear.. but rental rigs CAN accumulate hundreds or thousands of jumps,,,pretty quickly, bringing with That,,,issues like harness slippage, 3 ring cable maintenance , riser ring "set" and P.C./ bridle and closing loop wear & tear...

good deal shibu to get GOOD quality gear of Your OWN....that FITS!!!
good luck

jmy

Thanks jmy. That's the plan.


shibu  (C 42074)

May 3, 2013, 6:13 PM
Post #18 of 22 (2471 views)
Shortcut
[UPDATE] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

UPDATE:

I had an instructor look over the rig. The friction adapter was fine. Added some bands & made sure the leg straps were stowed neat & jumped it 3 times today with no issues.

I guess it just worked itself loose as it was flapping around on my dive.


dorbie

May 12, 2013, 11:35 PM
Post #19 of 22 (2041 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] [UPDATE] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the spirit, fuck it! Jump that rig!

Not all friction adapters are designed equal and elastic keepers should not be the difference between working and failing friction adapters.


erdnarob  (D 364)

May 13, 2013, 2:55 PM
Post #20 of 22 (1936 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shibu] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

First at all I hope that you have the ends of both legs straps folded on themselves and stitched.
Second, new hardware in stainless steel are quite splippery. You can rub beeswax on the leg straps to make them less slippery.


shibu  (C 42074)

May 18, 2013, 5:05 AM
Post #21 of 22 (1670 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dorbie] [UPDATE] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

dorbie wrote:
That's the spirit, fuck it! Jump that rig!

Not all friction adapters are designed equal and elastic keepers should not be the difference between working and failing friction adapters.

Good point. I know how it sounds after reading the "incident" I posted but I did have an instructor check it out throughly and after checking it out on the ground, I can't figure out how it came so loose.

At any rate it pushed me to get my own rig which was long overdue.


(This post was edited by shibu on May 18, 2013, 5:08 AM)


shibu  (C 42074)

May 18, 2013, 5:07 AM
Post #22 of 22 (1665 views)
Shortcut
Re: [erdnarob] Leg strap an inch from being detached [In reply to] Can't Post

erdnarob wrote:
First at all I hope that you have the ends of both legs straps folded on themselves and stitched.

They definitely are. That was what kept it from coming completely loose, I think.

Quote:
Second, new hardware in stainless steel are quite splippery. You can rub beeswax on the leg straps to make them less slippery.

Good to know. Thank you.



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)