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Line stow question

 

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Koric101  (B License)

Apr 16, 2013, 7:45 AM
Post #1 of 41 (2884 views)
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Line stow question Can't Post

When I stow lines I find sometimes it takes 3 line stows and sometimes 4 to get the proper length of excess to the top of the risers. The variation comes from making slightly different sized bites from pack job to pack job I'm sure.

When I end up using only three I've been removing the spare rubber band to prevent any possible issues, but it seems during a normal deployment with 4 stows used, after the first one comes unstowed that it would be in the same situation.

I'm sorry if this is a little confusing, basically, my question is, does an unused line stow rubber band pose a legitimate chance of causing a mal or am I just being overly careful?

Thanks!


theonlyski  (D License)

Apr 16, 2013, 7:51 AM
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Re: [Koric101] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm sorry if this is a little confusing, basically, my question is, does an unused line stow rubber band pose a legitimate chance of causing a mal or am I just being overly careful?

Don't overthink it. So long as your stows are neat and tidy, you should have no issues.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Apr 16, 2013, 8:52 AM
Post #3 of 41 (2783 views)
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Re: [Koric101] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Koric,

one of the most important part of a pack job is the line stowage. as long as you have good line tension and stowage thats 90% of the battle won. having an extra bungee is not a problem in my opinion.
however one piece of advice for you, make sure all your bungees are in good shape. if there is any issues with them replace them, it could save you a lot of unnessary grief.Crazy

blue skies and safe jumping

Rodger


Koric101  (B License)

Apr 16, 2013, 8:57 AM
Post #4 of 41 (2773 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you both for the responses. I have plenty of spare bands and keep a a good eye on them, they're cheap enough that it's not a problem replacing them when they get worn. Appreciate the info on the spare band too!

Blue skies


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:00 AM
Post #5 of 41 (2729 views)
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Re: [Koric101] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.

If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 10:06 AM
Post #6 of 41 (2717 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.

If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.

I like those semi stowless bags..when i'm ready to buy my own rig it will no doubt have the semi-stowless bag..i'll admit it..i hate having to mess around with 10 billion rubber bands and would rather deal with just the two locking stows.


ChrisHoward  (D 28490)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:06 AM
Post #7 of 41 (2717 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.

If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.

I don't agree. Freebags and semi stowless bags still feature line stowage. Sure it may a different form of stowage but the lines are still stowed A.K.A. the Freestow Pocket.


Koric101  (B License)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:07 AM
Post #8 of 41 (2714 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

I was more asking about the possibility of a line wrapping or getting caught in an unused rubber band on the dbag, but I see what you're saying and have read some of the threads on that topic.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Apr 16, 2013, 11:50 AM
Post #9 of 41 (2614 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.

More BS. When you gonna realize that you just don't know what you don't know? Evidently bag locks are only caused by locking stows?

In reply to:
If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.
You are regurgitating something you heard from somebody.....problem is that you are regurgitating out of context.

FWIW, I'm losing confidence in everything you post.




To the OP: It's highly unlikely that an extra band is going to give you problems. Removing the extra is quite OK and is a good preventative to make you feel more comfortable about preventing a possible problem.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Apr 16, 2013, 11:50 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:32 PM
Post #10 of 41 (2577 views)
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Re: [ChrisHoward] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.

If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.

I don't agree. Freebags and semi stowless bags still feature line stowage. Sure it may a different form of stowage but the lines are still stowed A.K.A. the Freestow Pocket.

I agree that keeping the lines neat is important. If you include a pocket as a "line-stow" then I agree with you.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:39 PM
Post #11 of 41 (2570 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.


More BS. When you gonna realize that you just don't know what you don't know?


Perhaps when you illuminate me with your vast knowledge instead of just calling BS?


In reply to:
Evidently bag locks are only caused by locking stows?

Did I mention bag locks? And your argument is pro-stowless bags rather than against so perhaps your one-man vendetta against me is a little mis-guided.

In reply to:
In reply to:
If you don't agree then consider reserve freebags and semi-stowless bags that are on the market now.
You are regurgitating something you heard from somebody.....problem is that you are regurgitating out of context.


I jump a stowless bag, Grandad, so I fail to see how I am regurgitating.
Yet again you point out how wrong I am without providing any counter-point in the discussion.


In reply to:
FWIW, I'm losing confidence in everything you post.

I am not in the slightest bit bothered about your confidence.
I am more concerned about the fact that you apparently don't know what you're telling your students.


piisfish

Apr 16, 2013, 2:47 PM
Post #12 of 41 (2515 views)
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Re: [Koric101] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

despite not being a PD fanboy, I do have a tendancy to listen to THAT GUY more than Docpop Tongue
Reference to line stows at 6 minutes


ctrph8  (D License)

Apr 17, 2013, 1:33 AM
Post #13 of 41 (2354 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

Meh. I'm learning to take the gold nuggets where I find them but not trust everything one person says. I personally feel like they are missing the mark when it comes to double stowing things. That being said, they have a parachute manufacturing company that will make a will make millions this year. I on the other hand do some rigging that might make dozens of dollars this year.

I've jumped semi-stowless bags and will be ordering one soon. Now to figure out which one!



In reply to:
despite not being a PD fanboy, I do have a tendancy to listen to THAT GUY more than Docpop Tongue
Reference to line stows at 6 minutes


ChrisHoward  (D 28490)

Apr 17, 2013, 5:23 AM
Post #14 of 41 (2278 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
The only stows that really matter are the locking stows - the others are just there to keep things neat during the packjob.


More BS. When you gonna realize that you just don't know what you don't know?


Perhaps when you illuminate me with your vast knowledge instead of just calling BS?

A blanket statement like the one you made does two things in my opinion. Firstly, it gives newbies the wrong impression of the multiple purposes of line stows and makes light of the importance of properly/securely stowed lines. Secondly, the fact that you breezed over many of these details indicates that you either don't know many of these facts or that you simply didn't feel the need to elaborate on them in your original answer.
Sure stowless bags work great and many people like to use them for a variety of reasons. But your original answer lacks information to the point of being mis-leading.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 17, 2013, 5:44 AM
Post #15 of 41 (2260 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
despite not being a PD fanboy, I do have a tendancy to listen to THAT GUY more than Docpop Tongue
Reference to line stows at 6 minutes

While I have huge respect for John LeBlanc - I would like to hear his perspective on semi-stowless bags in the light of what he said.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 17, 2013, 5:50 AM
Post #16 of 41 (2245 views)
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Re: [ChrisHoward] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A blanket statement like the one you made does two things in my opinion. Firstly, it gives newbies the wrong impression of the multiple purposes of line stows and makes light of the importance of properly/securely stowed lines. Secondly, the fact that you breezed over many of these details indicates that you either don't know many of these facts or that you simply didn't feel the need to elaborate on them in your original answer.
Sure stowless bags work great and many people like to use them for a variety of reasons. But your original answer lacks information to the point of being mis-leading.

My experience is that the non-locking line stows aren't important except for keeping the lines from tangling during the packing/deployment sequences.

Perhaps I should have said that incorrect stowage of lines can cause a problem, but a total absence of non-locking stows does not provided the lines deploy in an orderly fashion.

Before I got my semi-stowless bag, I use to stow my lines with large rubber bands that were not double wrapped and I know several other who do the same. The lines were loose in the stows and never cause any issues.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Apr 17, 2013, 6:05 AM
Post #17 of 41 (2238 views)
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Re: [Koric101] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
When I stow lines I find sometimes it takes 3 line stows and sometimes 4 to get the proper length of excess to the top of the risers.

Back on topic, get rid of the above variation by being consistant in your pack job. In all aspects, find a 'system' that works for each part of the pack job and stick with it. How wide do you cocoon your canopy to fit the bag? How big (front to back) do you make the folds? How big are your line stows to end up with the right excess? All of these are areas where you can figure out the 'best way', and the learn to repeat that on every pack job. The consistancy will help you to pack faster and neater.

Quote:
I've been removing the spare rubber band to prevent any possible issues

Don't bother. Many years (and 1000's of jumps) ago, I started putting as many rubber bands on each of the stow points as I could fit (not on the locking stows). The idea is that when one breaks, another is right there to use immediately, with no interruption to the pack job. At the end of the day, I'll clear the broken bands and replace them with fresh ones, but during a busy jump day I don't have to stop and mess with rubber bands.

Anyway, in all that time I've never had a problem with extra rubber bands on the bag, broken or not.


Koric101  (B License)

Apr 17, 2013, 6:11 AM
Post #18 of 41 (2229 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

Good to know and thanks for the info, that's the kind of thing I was wondering about.


ChrisHoward  (D 28490)

Apr 17, 2013, 6:30 AM
Post #19 of 41 (2197 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My experience is that the non-locking line stows aren't important except for keeping the lines from tangling during the packing/deployment sequences.
Again I would say that they are far more important than that.

In reply to:
Perhaps I should have said that incorrect stowage of lines can cause a problem, but a total absence of non-locking stows does not provided the lines deploy in an orderly fashion.
Partially correct. Again I consider free-stow pockets as a form of line stows. Also free-stow pockets have their own in-herent problems.

In reply to:
Before I got my semi-stowless bag, I use to stow my lines with large rubber bands that were not double wrapped and I know several other who do the same.
Great.

In reply to:
The lines were loose in the stows and never cause any issues.
Depending on your version of loose, I suspect that there may have been some luck involved there. Remember that just because something works for a while doesn't mean that it's right.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 17, 2013, 6:46 AM
Post #20 of 41 (2190 views)
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Re: [ChrisHoward] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
My experience is that the non-locking line stows aren't important except for keeping the lines from tangling during the packing/deployment sequences.
Again I would say that they are far more important than that.

Could you explain why else you think they are important?


ChrisHoward  (D 28490)

Apr 17, 2013, 7:12 AM
Post #21 of 41 (2181 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
My experience is that the non-locking line stows aren't important except for keeping the lines from tangling during the packing/deployment sequences.
Again I would say that they are far more important than that.

Could you explain why else you think they are important?

Because secure line stows will help prevent a number of problems like hard openings, tension knots, line dump, bag strip etc.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
Post #22 of 41 (2122 views)
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Re: [ChrisHoward] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Could you explain why else you think they are important?

Because secure line stows will help prevent a number of problems like hard openings, tension knots, line dump, bag strip etc.

I don't believe that non-locking stows help with any of the above except potentially tension knots (see previous comments about keeping the lines organized).

Line dump is a non-issue (again, with the exception of the potential for tension knots). You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings [Edited to add: this is not a recommendation - just a statement that it can work fine but it carries risks]

Bag strip certainly is an issue, but that is controlled by the locking stows.


(This post was edited by DocPop on Apr 17, 2013, 12:10 PM)


DivingWombat  (B License)

Apr 17, 2013, 10:38 AM
Post #23 of 41 (2102 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Could you explain why else you think they are important?

Because secure line stows will help prevent a number of problems like hard openings, tension knots, line dump, bag strip etc.

I don't believe that non-locking stows help with any of the above except potentially tension knots (see previous comments about keeping the lines organized).

Line dump is a non-issue (again, with the exception of the potential for tension knots). You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings.

Bag strip certainly is an issue, but that is controlled by the locking stows.

Haha....really!?! I have first hand information of two mals with cutaway caused by packers who just did the two locking stows and put the excess in the bag.


(This post was edited by DivingWombat on Apr 17, 2013, 10:43 AM)


mark  (D 6108)

Apr 17, 2013, 11:34 AM
Post #24 of 41 (2062 views)
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Re: [DivingWombat] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have first hand information of two mals with cutaway caused by packers who just did the two locking stows and put the excess in the bag.

Correlation is not the same as causation.

Everybody used to jump with lines coiled on the main pack tray, only locking stows on the bag. We quit only because the lines sometimes half-hitched on a container flap (we're talking major malfunction here), not because there was any other sort of malfunction.

Mark


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Apr 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
Post #25 of 41 (2053 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Line stow question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Could you explain why else you think they are important?

Because secure line stows will help prevent a number of problems like hard openings, tension knots, line dump, bag strip etc.

I don't believe that non-locking stows help with any of the above except potentially tension knots (see previous comments about keeping the lines organized).

Line dump is a non-issue (again, with the exception of the potential for tension knots). You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings.

Bag strip certainly is an issue, but that is controlled by the locking stows.

???????????
I certainly hope none of the youngsters are taking any of this advice to heart.

Old timers should already know better. Young jumpers should refer to JohnLeBlanc's video linked above. If you are going to trust information from somebody, JL is one of our go-to people,

Young jumpers, we've come out of the dark ages and learned a long time ago that coiling up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray is not a good idea. If it was we'd still be doing it. Look around you at people packing. How many free stow like that?


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