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Mbo5128

Apr 16, 2013, 7:21 AM
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New skydiver Can't Post

Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?


evan85  (C 41367)

Apr 16, 2013, 7:38 AM
Post #2 of 31 (3167 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?

First of all, you should ask your instructors. They're the ones that have seen your canopy skills and your landings and are in the best place to answer this question, not a bunch of random folks on the internet. If you want random internet advice anyway, at least give us some more information. What canopy have you been jumping as a student? How big is it?

That being said, take a look at what you're proposing. You weigh 190 pounds, and your gear will weigh another, say, 20-25 pounds. You'll be loading a 170 sq ft canopy at between a 1.24 and 1.26 wing loading. Go to any of the major canopy manufacturers' websites, pick a canopy (the kind you might eventually get as a first canopy) and look at the wingloading suggestions. Let's look at the PD Sabre2 as an example (http://www.performancedesigns.com/sabre2.asp).

For the Sabre2 170, PD recommends an exit weight (that's you PLUS your gear) for students of no more than 136 pounds. As a "novice", the maximum exit weight on a Sabre2 170 is 153. Your exit weight of 210-215 falls between "advanced" and "expert"--and much closer to expert (187 and 221, respectively).

So the short answer, from this random internet guy who's never seen you fly a canopy, is that this is a bad idea and you should stick to a wingloading of no more than 1.0 as someone just off student status (that would still put you as "intermediate", not "novice" on the Sabre2 chart).

Flying a canopy that's too small can have serious, dangerous, even fatal consequences. You'll have lots of time in this sport to work up to a higher wingloading, but only if you stay safe and conservative at the beginning.


(This post was edited by evan85 on Apr 16, 2013, 7:40 AM)


rwieder  (C 32349)

Apr 16, 2013, 7:40 AM
Post #3 of 31 (3164 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

The 170^2 canopy would put you slightly over 1:2:1 wing load, too high. You need to stay at 1:0:1 at a maximum wing load, unless you have "mad skillz" which you may have but having said that, you won't last long. Check with your jump master(s) and get your reccomendation from there. It's NOT a good idea to ask for that type of information here to people who haven't seen you fly.


sundevil777  (D License)

Apr 16, 2013, 8:14 AM
Post #4 of 31 (3139 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Your total weight of gear including clothes, shoes, jumpsuit and helmet will likely be 30 pounds. That puts you at a 1.29 wingload which is definitely not right for you. There is no need to know you or how you fly a canopy in order to make that determination.

In reply to:
I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me.

That is right, they want to sell their gear. They are not looking out for your best interest.


adamUK  (C 104423)

Apr 16, 2013, 8:38 AM
Post #5 of 31 (3119 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been jumping 9 years off and on. My weight is the same as yours and I jump a 190 sq ft canopy. Just sayin'.


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 8:56 AM
Post #6 of 31 (3101 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?

Oh god..here we go again. Unsure

Another golden-boy who thinks he's bulletproof after graduating AFF.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Apr 16, 2013, 8:57 AM
Post #7 of 31 (3100 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Hiya,

at the moment with that combination the wing loading will be too high for your expirience level.

Rodger


sundevil777  (D License)

Apr 16, 2013, 9:00 AM
Post #8 of 31 (3098 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?

Oh god..here we go again. Unsure

Another golden-boy who thinks he's bulletproof after graduating AFF.

The OP said nothing to indicate a high opinion of himself.


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 9:06 AM
Post #9 of 31 (3092 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?

Oh god..here we go again. Unsure

Another golden-boy who thinks he's bulletproof after graduating AFF.

The OP said nothing to indicate a high opinion of himself.

Edited:
Oh god..here we go again. Unsure
Another AFF graduate wanting to buy personal gear again. Cool

Seriously though..c'mon, if OP has invested tons of money to go through AFF (and don't anyone say "oh skydiving is cheap,,cuz I worked through my AFF course by packing parachutes, selling my body, giving my kidney to some kid in Rowanda, pan handling in Beverly Hills" crap), then why can't OP invest in taking a canopy course or trying out a few canopies before making a purchase? AFF is expensive in terms of time, money, relationships..PERIOD.
So obviously, these days, if OP has tons of money to burn in skydiving OP certainly has money to burn in taking a few courses, or renting gear, paying for coached jumps, or buying skydiving books.


(This post was edited by GooniesKid on Apr 16, 2013, 9:15 AM)


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:08 AM
Post #10 of 31 (3029 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Get over yourself. You offered NOTHING of value to the discussion and simply wanted to sit there and thump your chest as you look down your nose on some noob asking his stupid question.

He never implied he was a Golden Boy or bullet proof. In fact he specifically gave information stating that he is a new skydiver and was asking for input as to whether buying this canopy would be S A F E.
He obviously realized that it might be questionable and sought the input of more experienced jumpers.

It's easy and proper to advise him to speak with his instructors who have seen him jump and fly his canopy, but why is this forum here if not, in part, for us stupid noobs to tap into the wealth of knowledge that more experienced jumpers have.

Maybe you could try looking at the question in the context in which it was asked and then offering constructive advice or just staying out of the conversation alltogether. Or maybe it would be better if noobs like myself just asked other noobs our questions instead of bothering a big shot like you.

Don't be so quick to bash us new skydivers who don't have the wealth of knowledge that you were apparently born with. We are trying to learn and part of that entails asking questions of those with more experience. We're enthusiastic, and excited to be doing something that you may take for granted because you have been doing it for sooooo long. Sometimes those questions are gonna be stupid, not to say that this question is.

By the way, how long have YOU been jumping. You have no jump numbers listed. Only registered on 27 August 2012 and have, if I'm reading correctly, only 27 post. Looks like you're not much less of a noob than myself or the original poster.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #11 of 31 (3024 views)
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Re: [evan85] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hello I'm a new skydiver about to finish my AFF training and looking to buy my own gear. I have a friend ex skydiver who has a wings container with 170 sq ft main and reserve that wants to sell to me. I'm 6'1 and weigh 190 pounds. Any suggestions as to whether jumping a 170 would be a good safe idea?

First of all, you should ask your instructors.

Don't start with your instructors. The bar to being a skydiving instructor is VERY low. Plenty have bad judgement. I knew four who killed themselves with bad canopy piloting and lost count of the ones who broke bones. Some just don't know enough and have been lucky to get away with it for thousands of jumps.

In reply to:
They're the ones that have seen your canopy skills and your landings and are in the best place to answer this question, not a bunch of random folks on the internet.

A long final approach straight into the wind landing in a wide open grassy field is absurdly easy.

It doesn't get difficult until you have to correct problems like making a low 90 degree turn to avoid power lines for a down-wind landing on an asphalt road on the sunset load after cute chicks flashed the pilot for extra altitude, some one in the group got hypoxic and caught their foot on a seatbelt for a long climb out and long spot, and with the low light the power lines went unnoticed until the last second.

When the jumper in question hasn't been making lots of out landings with low turns to avoid obstacles his instructors haven't seen enough to know how he'll perform and can't recommend he jump a smaller canopy than experts believe to be prudent.

When he's been doing that regularly it shows bad judgement and he shouldn't be down-sizing faster either.

Expert advise here is Brian Germain's (xx,xxx skydives, designs parachutes, teaches canopy flight professionally around the world, studied psychology in school and writes about sports psych, etc.) 1.0 + .1 (about; there are adjustments for higher elevations) pound per square foot per 100 jumps Wingloading Never Exceed formula to provide time to learn skills, develop muscle memory, and have an acceptable psychological arousal level when dealing with problems.

You also need to be comfortable with all of the survival skills before each down-size (land down-wind, cross-wind, with 180 degree flat turns from 100 feet, with post-planeout carving turns, with induced speed, arrest a dive, etc.) Brian has a list in his document and Bill von Novak has another.

You should only be following your instructors advice when they think you should be more conservative than that standard, like when your nickname is 34B for landing on that hanger (not your bra size) or you seem to have problems flaring all the way.

190 pounds + 30 pounds of gear = 220 and a fine first canopy size (my 105/143 main/reserve rig is 19 pounds and 245/253 accuracy setup 30. The original poster's first rig will be closer to the heavy one. There's also a few pounds of helmet/jumpsuit/stuff on top of that).

220/170 = 1.3, with 170 square feet a possible third canopy after 300 jumps.

Some people object that going through parachutes is expensive and that you should get gear you'll grow into. They're wrong on both counts - when you buy used gear you can spend the same $1-$2 on depreciation per jump regardless of how many canopies you go through, and what'll be safe in 100 jumps isn't now.

Proper canopy choice is also means more fun putting a bigger canopy you're comfortable with through its paces than being stuck flying a small one in straight lines because that's where your skill stops.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Apr 16, 2013, 11:42 AM)


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:22 AM
Post #12 of 31 (3010 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

And again, you offer nothing of value to the conversation.

What's wrong with him wanting to buy his own gear. He's seeking advice so that he make a wise buying decision.

Not a thing in the world wrong with wanting your own equipment. You get to begin jumping the same canopy repeatedly instead of bouncing around different student rigs and not knowing how it has been handled since you last jumped it.
Your own gear, you get used to how IT flies and start to better refine your skills.
You have no knowledge of whether the OP has read any books, seen any videos or not.
You've yet to offer the OP any constructive advice on his question and simply want to sit back and withhold all that valuable info you have tucked away in that noggin of yours and deride him for being so stupid as to ask such a basic question.
Do you just spend your time TROLLING around looking for noobs to jump on?


(This post was edited by TracyS on Apr 16, 2013, 10:24 AM)


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 10:36 AM
Post #13 of 31 (2992 views)
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Re: [Mbo5128] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

As for the rest of you who have responded to the OP so far, THANK YOU!!!
I see a few names that have also responded to some of my questions with constructive input. We noobs really appreciate when you more experienced jumpers are willing to share your knowledge with us without trying to make us feel stupid.
We are "young" jumpers ( not neccessarily "young" in age ). We are enthusiastic about this new activity that we are participating in. We're excited to immerse ourselves in skydiving and try new things and get our own gear. We're not unlike a little kid that sometimes gets ahead of themselves, forgetting that we need to crawl before we can walk or run.
Again, thanks to all of you who have offered the OP constructive advice. You guys & gals are a valuable resource.


(This post was edited by TracyS on Apr 16, 2013, 11:50 AM)


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 11:33 AM
Post #14 of 31 (2930 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

ok geez!!!! tie me to a post and give me 10 lashes! (wait i might like that) Pirate

For the OP off AFF and jumping your own 1.2 WL you might find some useful information here:
http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

For gear selection try this:
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/A_Guide_to_Buying_Your_First_Skydiving_Gear_873.html

Have fun and be safe flying your own rig without even having tried any other wings or harness.
Get yourself enrolled into that canopy course.

To TracyS : you are one hot firecracker..i like that. I want to buy you a beer


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
Post #15 of 31 (2899 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ok geez!!!! tie me to a post and give me 10 lashes! (wait i might like that) Pirate

For the OP off AFF and jumping your own 1.2 WL you might find some useful information here:
http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

For gear selection try this:
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/A_Guide_to_Buying_Your_First_Skydiving_Gear_873.html

Have fun and be safe flying your own rig without even having tried any other wings or harness.
Get yourself enrolled into that canopy course.

To TracyS : you are one hot firecracker..i like that. I want to buy you a beer

GooniesKid, I'll take you up on that beer and buy you one in return!Smile
( ok, make mine a Mountain Dew. I'm a pussy and never developed a taste for beer, but I'll certainly buy you one )

Now I'm off to read the info you posted for the OP so I can further edumacate myself too.


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 12:06 PM
Post #16 of 31 (2885 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

GooniesKid, I'll take you up on that beer and buy you one in return!Smile
( ok, make mine a Mountain Dew. I'm a pussy and never developed a taste for beer, but I'll certainly buy you one )

Wait a sec? Is this like a date thing where we buy each other a drink and dinner? Are you saying "yes" to a date? Shocked


(This post was edited by GooniesKid on Apr 16, 2013, 12:07 PM)


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:23 PM
Post #17 of 31 (2860 views)
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

GooniesKid, I'll take you up on that beer and buy you one in return!Smile
( ok, make mine a Mountain Dew. I'm a pussy and never developed a taste for beer, but I'll certainly buy you one )

Wait a sec? Is this like a date thing where we buy each other a drink and dinner? Are you saying "yes" to a date? Shocked

I could have a lot of fun with this at your expense but, in the spirit of our newfound sense of camaraderie, I won't.
My guess would be that you are male and assuming, as have many others, that I am female, right?
No one who has ever met me or heard my voice has ever made that mistake again. Can't tell you how many fights I used to get into as a kid over the whole girls name thing. Got to a point where every time I went to a new school, the first idiot to pop off with some comment about my girlie name would get nailed right between the running lights. Seems like that would put an end to that crap pretty quick.
Finally, made peace with the girlie name and have had a lot of fun with it over the years.
So, if a drink and dinner are still on yer mind big boy, I'm sure my wife wouldn't mind me having dinner out with a fellow skydiver.

Be warned though, I don't put out on the first date, I'll make you work for it. Wink


GooniesKid

Apr 16, 2013, 12:41 PM
Post #18 of 31 (2847 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

omg dude,,,i am sorry as I also thought you were female.

I'm all for gay marriage and all but i don't swing that way.

However, i like the spirit of camaraderie so let's get some beer, bury our differences, and watch a few AFF's land while drinking said beer...how about that? Cool

You're still a hot firecracker and i think we make a good dynamic duo.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Well hasn't this turned into a nice thread.


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:55 PM
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Re: [GooniesKid] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Nor do I swing that way. You're not the first and you won't be the last to read my name and assume, female.
Watching AFF's land...good fun, especially when they aren't listening to the instructor and do their own thing. Saw one this past weekend not listening to the instructor.
He had her turned on downwind and told her to let it fly. Instead she immediately did a 180 and turned upwind. He's on the radio trying to get her to turn downwind and she's totally oblivious. Suddenly, about treetop level, she turns again heading downwind. Bunch of us watching her come in and listening to him on the radio just sat and cringed waiting to see her land.
Thank goodness for her big ole floatie student rig. She walked away from it unhurt.


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 12:57 PM
Post #21 of 31 (2821 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Howdy Quagmirian

Thanks for the feedback on my brake lines question.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Apr 16, 2013, 2:18 PM
Post #22 of 31 (2783 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

this is the first thread in a long time that made me laugh Sly SlyLaughLaugh


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 4:03 PM
Post #23 of 31 (2731 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

Happy to be of amusementSmile


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Apr 16, 2013, 5:11 PM
Post #24 of 31 (2704 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nor do I swing that way. You're not the first and you won't be the last to read my name and assume, female....

Yeah, there's this Russian on here (hasn't been here in a while though) named "Nikki."
He has to fend off the "Keyboard Romeos" too.

To the OP - As you have already noticed, that will be too small for you right now. The dude who wants to sell it doesn't have your best interests in mind. He wants to sell his gear.

The sites GooniesKid posted (especially the "bigairsports" one) are good reading.


TracyS  (C 41941)

Apr 16, 2013, 5:52 PM
Post #25 of 31 (2680 views)
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Re: [TracyS] New skydiver [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
ok geez!!!! tie me to a post and give me 10 lashes! (wait i might like that) Pirate

For the OP off AFF and jumping your own 1.2 WL you might find some useful information here:
http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

For gear selection try this:
http://www.dropzone.com/...diving_Gear_873.html

Have fun and be safe flying your own rig without even having tried any other wings or harness.
Get yourself enrolled into that canopy course.

To TracyS : you are one hot firecracker..i like that. I want to buy you a beer

GooniesKid, I'll take you up on that beer and buy you one in return!Smile
( ok, make mine a Mountain Dew. I'm a pussy and never developed a taste for beer, but I'll certainly buy you one )

Now I'm off to read the info you posted for the OP so I can further edumacate myself too.

Just an assist to make em clicky


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