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Canopy Recommendations???

 

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marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 14, 2013, 9:00 PM
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Canopy Recommendations??? Can't Post

I've been out of the sport for 11 years but got recurrent today. Wondering what main canopies I should consider? Here's some background:

- 1300+ jumps, and was jumping a Viper 105 when I quit (very similar to the Stiletto 107). I have close to 1000 jumps on ellipticals wing-loaded at 1.5 to 1.8.

- I'm 42. Not as young as I once was, but still in decent shape.

- I'm not coming back full-time at this particular point in my life. If I were, then I would work my way into a sub-100 sq/ft cross-braced canopy and stay current with it. I'll probably make less than 100 jumps per year.

- My typical approach will probably be a 90-ish degree front-riser turn to landing. I like a good turf surf but I won't be getting too crazy with it since I probably won't be jumping enough to fly at the level I used to.

So, with that background in mind, I'm thinking something in the 120-135 range would work (my exit weight now is about 195). But what???

I know I don't want a Sabre (although maybe a Sabre 2). Most of my jumps are on Stilettos or the very similar Viper, but that is now 20 year old technology, so I'm sure that there are some better options - I just don't know what they are.

Sooooo, recommendations? And please tell me WHY you are making the recommendation.

Thanks!

Marc


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 14, 2013, 9:49 PM
Post #2 of 40 (2918 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Stilettos don't fly like most canopies out there these days. On the other hand, some people must still love them, as they are still in production. So that's still an option.


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Apr 14, 2013, 9:59 PM
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.


demon4o7  (B License)

Apr 14, 2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I recommend a canopy that refers you to someone more knowledgeable about your skill :) in all honesty I'm not a canopy Nazi, but I'm sure the same ^ message will be repeated soon enough :|


ctrph8  (D License)

Apr 14, 2013, 11:33 PM
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Re: [HUPRA] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

That was my first thought too. They are REALLY nice canopies. I have two, a 129 and a 149. With my weight (250ish OTD) they are different animals. Play with different wing loadings. You'll fall in love with one of them.


In reply to:
What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Apr 15, 2013, 8:26 AM
Post #6 of 40 (2745 views)
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Re: [ctrph8] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That was my first thought too. They are REALLY nice canopies. I have two, a 129 and a 149. With my weight (250ish OTD) they are different animals. Play with different wing loadings. You'll fall in love with one of them.


In reply to:
What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.

Out of interest, how do they compare? Obviously the 129 is faster etc, but what about front riser pressure, flare etc?


ChrisD  (No License)

Apr 15, 2013, 8:39 AM
Post #7 of 40 (2731 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsure

You have (basically) described skydivings most recent fatal.

Please wait a while, use something conservative for a bit, tell us you have taken a canopy course before in the same sentance your telling us that your going to be hanging full turns close to the ground after 11 years layoff,...

then after a bit you will be telling us your choice after you have seen what is out theere...
CWink

Take a look at Lazlo's hit at 1.5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9C0ym7WA8

Just my 2 cents, because I have a concern about the skill required and a 11 year couch time. And what you have described...Smile <<<The happy face means I don't want anything bad to happen, (injury wise.)


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Apr 15, 2013, 10:10 AM)


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 10:38 PM
Post #8 of 40 (2609 views)
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Re: [demon4o7] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am the one who is most knowledgeable about my skill. I don't need to hear from canopy Nazis. If someone I know and respect wishes to chime in, then I will certainly listen to them, but I have enough experience to make informed decisions. I'm not looking for a peanut gallery lecture on my currency - I'm asking for canopy options and attributes so that I can make my own Big Boy decision.I recommend a canopy that refers you to someone more knowledgeable about your skill :) in all honesty I'm not a canopy Nazi, but I'm sure the same ^ message will be repeated soon enough :|


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 10:40 PM
Post #9 of 40 (2608 views)
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Re: [HUPRA] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll add that to my list of canopies to consider, thanks!


Code:
In reply to:
What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 10:43 PM
Post #10 of 40 (2607 views)
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Re: [ctrph8] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, so that's two recommendations for the Crossfire 2. Cool. This is the sort of information I'm seeking. Crossfire 2 is definitely going on the list of canopies I will research.


Code:
In reply to:
That was my first thought too. They are REALLY nice canopies. I have two, a 129 and a 149. With my weight (250ish OTD) they are different animals. Play with different wing loadings. You'll fall in love with one of them.


In reply to:
What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 10:59 PM
Post #11 of 40 (2604 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am trying to determine how this response addresses my questions at all? It doesn't.

I am a former AFF-I/Tandem/Video/Rigger. My judgment was respected and paid for. I have considered my options (at a high level) and I have ruled out the sub-100 sq ft cross-braced canopies at this point (although I have jumped them). I am looking for something a size or two more conservative than what most of my last 700 jumps were made on, and I'm getting lectured for asking about these more conservative options? Really?

Does that seem sort of silly to anyone else?

Marc


Code:
In reply to:
Unsure

You have (basically) described skydivings most recent fatal.

Please wait a while, use something conservative for a bit, tell us you have taken a canopy course before in the same sentance your telling us that your going to be hanging full turns close to the ground after 11 years layoff,...

then after a bit you will be telling us your choice after you have seen what is out theere...
CWink

Take a look at Lazlo's hit at 1.5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9C0ym7WA8

Just my 2 cents, because I have a concern about the skill required and a 11 year couch time. And what you have described...Smile <<<The happy face means I don't want anything bad to happen, (injury wise.)


demon4o7  (B License)

Apr 15, 2013, 11:16 PM
Post #12 of 40 (2591 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gotcha. I'm not trying to lecture or anything of the sort. But the title / description is somewhat misleading. Maybe "canopy comparisons" is better?


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 11:25 PM
Post #13 of 40 (2586 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that Stilettos are now old technology, but I did make many hundreds of jumps on Stilettos and the very similar Vipers. I had great swoops and safe landings. Can you elaborate on the differences between Stilettos and more modern canopies? Also, can you name a few modern canopies that a guy who was swooping Stilettos 11-17 years ago would want to consider?

Please keep in mind - I want to be a bit more conservative because I'm not going to be as current. So 120-135 size range canopies - not sub-100 cross braced wings. Crossfire 2 has been recommended thus far. What else?

Thanks,

Marc



In reply to:
Stilettos don't fly like most canopies out there these days. On the other hand, some people must still love them, as they are still in production. So that's still an option.


marcwgarber  (D 17862)

Apr 15, 2013, 11:55 PM
Post #14 of 40 (2574 views)
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Re: [demon4o7] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I want recommendations on which canopies (with the attributes I have described) I should be comparing.

The difference between "recommendations" and "comparisons" is mere semantics within the context of my question. javascript: addTag('sly')

I just want to know what modern canopies I should consider given my significant experience with the Viper 105 and the Stiletto 107 - keeping in mind that I want to be a size or two larger and more conservative.

A Stiletto 135 would be a no-brainer, but it's old technology. After all these years, there's probably SOMETHING that flies better and has better overall handling/forgiveness even in the 120 range, right? But what?

I mean, canopies vary a lot. I had a Jonathan 136 that was "ok" but it would never surf. I had a Jedei 120 that would surf ok, but not great. I had a Jedei 105 (?) that I could surf, but not shut down softly. My Stiletto 120 was good, and so was my Viper 120 (although it opened hard). My Viper 105s were both fantastic! I over-loaded my Sabre 120, and the one time I jumped a Sabre 97 was very sketchy. With the Sabre, 135 was the right size for me. With the Stiletto/Viper 107/105 was the sweet spot. Canopies vary! That's what I'm trying to get a bead on.....

Thanks,

Marc


In reply to:
Gotcha. I'm not trying to lecture or anything of the sort. But the title / description is somewhat misleading. Maybe "canopy comparisons" is better?


nigel99  (D 1)

Apr 16, 2013, 1:15 AM
Post #15 of 40 (2544 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Give a Sabre 2 a try. Not sure if you will like it, but it is a completely different animal to the Sabre 1.


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 16, 2013, 6:26 AM
Post #16 of 40 (2462 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

You may consider this semantics, too, but I don't necessarily think you should view the Stiletto as old technology, but rather as a canopy designed and built for the flying style of the time.

Swooping techniques have moved on a lot and the most recent swooping canopies (Comp Velo, Katana, Peregrine, for example) reflect the change in what modern Canopy Pilots want (mainly a steep trimmed, diving canopy which has plenty of range on the rears).

That said, if you're not going to fly that way then maybe you will prefer to stick with the Stiletto - plenty of people do still fly and love them.

If you want to try to get into the more modern way of flying a canopy for HP landings, may I suggest that you start off with a Sabre2 and build currency loading it up to say 1.5 then go to a Katana or Crossfire2 if you want something that is the next step up the performance ladder.

Be aware that these canopies will dive much more than your Stilettos and initiation altitudes will need to go up quite a bit. Finally, some coaching on new techniques would be valuable.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Apr 16, 2013, 7:12 AM
Post #17 of 40 (2445 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with Doc here... Don't rule out the Stiletto. It is still a very popular canopy for a number of good reasons. Smile


irishrigger  (D 297)

Apr 16, 2013, 9:02 AM
Post #18 of 40 (2420 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a Big fan of the stiletto, its one of the best canopys ever made in my opinion.
i have a second hand stiletto 135 if 6your interested Blush going at a reasonable price.

rodger


ChrisD  (No License)

Apr 17, 2013, 6:31 AM
Post #19 of 40 (2311 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just maken a point dude, Wink

Your the "expert" seeking advice from strangers on the internet, Unsure all I'm saying is after 11 years I'm expressing my view regarding safety and long layoffs???

C

Am I not entitled to my opinion?

Please stop by DeLand perhaps you can try the larger sized PD Peregrine?


"And please tell me WHY you are making the recommendation." :
Why am I making this reccomondation, well because of your extensive experience you might as well start with the best swooping canopy out there, why stop with someting half way when you can get the best.


jumpwally  (D License)

Apr 17, 2013, 7:22 AM
Post #20 of 40 (2287 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Really,,,? If you were knowledgeable about your skills, then you wouldn't be asking these questions....if you are that skilled then you would know what canopy to get.......if you don't know what canopy to get because you have been gone awhile,,,then guess what,,,your skills have also been away....think Crazy


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Apr 17, 2013, 7:34 AM
Post #21 of 40 (2281 views)
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Re: [marcwgarber] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

*Back on topic

To answer the question in the OP: Not sure what your list is like right now, but if I may add my recommendations in order:

1- Crossfire 2
2- Sabre 2
3- Stiletto
4- Safire 2

Not going to talk about sizes; that's for you to consider as you know more about where you would feel comfortable. But based on your past experience and your future intentions, it seems to me that these canopies are all great for what you're looking for.

In the end the decision is yours and I'm sure you'll make the right one.Smile


Premier rwieder  (C 32349)

Apr 17, 2013, 7:37 AM
Post #22 of 40 (2275 views)
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Re: [DcloudZ] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
1- Crossfire 2
2- Sabre 2
3- Stiletto
4- Saffire 2

YES!!!!!!!!!!


Bufobufo  (D License)

Apr 17, 2013, 7:55 AM
Post #23 of 40 (2268 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if it is steeper in flight then a stiletto I highly recommend you try a katana before deciding on buying anything. After few test jumps on a crossfire2 139 @ 2.14WL I felt it wasn't my type of canopy and I liked the mamba better.

A visiting jumper had a katana 135 and said I could try it and fortunately I did. 2.2WL and I was able to land it without sliding on my feet in the grass in low wind which is very helpful now when landing in 3 inches of snow in zero wind conditions ~1,9WL.

I don't recommend 2,2 WL though or you will notice it gets tough to get home from a long spot even in brakes. 1,6-1,9 somewhere is where I suspect you get the most fun out of it.

I also felt the katana was responding well when using the harness, easy to pull the fronts, acceptable on rears and the openings are exciting! :P


demon4o7  (B License)

Apr 18, 2013, 9:39 PM
Post #24 of 40 (2155 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't want to be the one to point out the obvious....


Mallachi  (D 24878)

Apr 19, 2013, 3:40 AM
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Re: [demon4o7] Canopy Recommendations??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am in the same boat kind of. I am coming back after a 6 year lay off. I talked to my friend who knows me good and knew how I fly my canopy. He recommended a Crossfire 2 over a Stiletto, he has remained working in the sport. If you want to see what people can get out of a Crossfire 2 swoop wise I suggest you look it up on youtube. I think you will be rather surprised. For me I got a 119, used to fly a 107 Stiletto. I will work my way back down on rental gear.


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