Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia

 

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mik  (D 11111)

Mar 24, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia Can't Post

Here is a link to the article I found last night (all Russian)

http://www.kp.ru/daily/26011/2935786/

My Russian is a very long way from perfect but key extracts as I understand them...

- 2 jumpers with 900 and 200 jumps were jumping from an AN2 at about 4,500 feet

- jumpers were aged 53 and 43

- 8 January is part of the long Christmas holidays in Russia

- they decided they wanted to get extended free fall time so switched off their AADs before the jump

- witnesses on the ground suggested the men started to deploy their mains at about 100m. both impacted with no mains (seems like perhaps one of the pilot chutes inflated but nothing else)

- minus 25c at ground level on the day of the jump

I don't know the DZ, the area or the jumpers. My guess would be that if this was their main dz, they would be used to jumps from a similar altitude and may not have had an awareness of how much free fall time would be "safe" from 4,500 feet. At this time of the year, the ground would most likely be covered by deep snow. whether this impacted their ability to "eyeball" the ground is not stated but could be a possibility. I have no idea whether they would be using altis.

If not used to freefall in such temperatures, it is possible that their goggles (which could be fine for delays of a few seconds) may not have been adequate for longer periods of freefall (adequate in terms of enabling them to see clearly).

Crazy Russians !!!!!!!


(This post was edited by mik on Mar 24, 2013, 11:00 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 24, 2013, 11:07 PM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Snow covering the terrain effects depth perception....just sayin' Unimpressed


Maksimsf  (B 37743)

Mar 24, 2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In article it says most experienced skydivers. One with 200 and another with 900 jumps.. huh? They jumped at 1400m and decided to pull @ 100m. I guess they jumped Para commanders, but thats just a guess...

first jumper - canopy didn't get inflated and 2nd jumper - canopy didn't left a D-bag.

P.S. 100m is ~ 300 ft.

If that's a case - it's just fucking stupid.


(This post was edited by Maksimsf on Mar 24, 2013, 11:19 PM)


piisfish

Mar 25, 2013, 2:03 AM
Post #4 of 41 (4316 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Snow covering the terrain effects depth perception....just sayin' Unimpressed
Quote:
- 2 jumpers with 900 and 200 jumps were jumping from ... about 4,500 feet
- they decided they wanted to get extended free fall time so switched off their AADs before the jump
low pull contest, just sayin' Unsure

we are always more "intelligent" afterwards, but it seems that as you are aware you are jumping low and that you intend to pull "lower than usual", you should have some added awareness about your altitude.

condolences to the russian jumping family


(This post was edited by piisfish on Mar 25, 2013, 2:05 AM)


potatoman  (Student)

Mar 25, 2013, 3:17 AM
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Re: [piisfish] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Extended freefall time by switching off their AAD?

For that extra second.......

I know years back there were some real physcos that started the 1000Ft club, and held hands till underneath 1000Ft, and then only deployed. I met a few of them.
Must say, they planned it well, also packed for a super fast opening, and only did it once to prove they can do it.


unkulunkulu  (C License)

Mar 25, 2013, 5:39 AM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the video, if you wish Unsure
http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=bknZIkT3iTw


(This post was edited by unkulunkulu on Mar 25, 2013, 5:40 AM)


ChrisD  (No License)

Mar 25, 2013, 6:54 AM
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsure

Thanks for posting the vid, err, I think,...

My most sincere condolances...


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:01 AM
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here is the video, if you wish Unsure
http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=bknZIkT3iTw

Geez... Leave it to the Russians to actually show video of the impact.... Pirate


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:04 AM
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Re: [BillyVance] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Yea I was just going to post that if any of you don't want to watch someone go in on their own cam, don't watch that vid.


ChrisD  (No License)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:16 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yea I was just going to post that if any of you don't want to watch someone go in on their own cam, don't watch that vid.

The warning is much appreciated Dan, on the other hand perhaps it should be "required viewing"?
Unsure


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:18 AM
Post #11 of 41 (3967 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Yea I was just going to post that if any of you don't want to watch someone go in on their own cam, don't watch that vid.

The warning is much appreciated Dan, on the other hand perhaps it should be "required viewing"?
Unsure

Well, there's no blood and you don't see anything but the hands holding onto the risers and then WHACK and the video cuts away to the commentators immediately. But the ground rush, whoa!

BTW, the camera was still running right after impact.


(This post was edited by BillyVance on Mar 25, 2013, 7:19 AM)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:33 AM
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a good video of how not to do a low pull. The guy with the camera is watching his buddy too much, with a lot of snowy open field right in front of him; he takes the time to turn 90-180 degrees before deploying; and he has a nice 'modern' snivel on deployment.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Mar 25, 2013, 7:52 AM
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Re: Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

I just can't imagine how anyone would think pulling that low would be a good idea. If rigged with something resembling a BASE configuration, it might be survivable at 300 to 400'. Years ago I watched a guy twice from terminal deploy at around 400', once from the airplane, once from the ground. He had Raven main, and packed to open fast. Looked damn scary to me.

Watching the video, and not understanding the commentary, I just assumed that it was file footage. Had the thought that it was pretty poor file footage, then figured out toward the bottom that it was actual impact video.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Mar 25, 2013, 8:22 AM
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Re: [skydived19006] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, the ground comes up fast at that altitude. Could have lived it it didn't snivel as much. I would bet this wasn't their first low pull, anybody that dumb probably does it regularly.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 25, 2013, 8:48 AM
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Re: [potatoman] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Extended freefall time by switching off their AAD?

For that extra second.......
About 11-12 seconds actually. . .
One second wouldn't kill you. Crazy


A few years ago some jumpers did a 2 point 2 way from 2 grand. One jumper's aad fired and he was severely injured landing a downplane.

Next morning I heard 2 noob jumpers discussing turning off their AAD's because they were doing hop & pops from 4500'. I told them to leave them on, of course, and if there was ever a jump where they needed to turn them off to be "safe", they should reconsider that jump.


lawrocket  (Student)

Mar 25, 2013, 9:40 AM
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Booth's law #1.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 25, 2013, 9:50 AM
Post #17 of 41 (3678 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Extended freefall time by switching off their AAD?

For that extra second.......
About 11-12 seconds actually. . .
One second wouldn't kill you. Crazy


A few years ago some jumpers did a 2 point 2 way from 2 grand. One jumper's aad fired and he was severely injured landing a downplane.

Next morning I heard 2 noob jumpers discussing turning off their AAD's because they were doing hop & pops from 4500'. I told them to leave them on, of course, and if there was ever a jump where they needed to turn them off to be "safe", they should reconsider that jump.


Ya can only TIE the low-pull record! Crazy


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 25, 2013, 10:13 AM
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Re: [lawrocket] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Booth's law #1.
Yep.Unsure


raff

Mar 25, 2013, 8:53 PM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

 

- 8 January is part of the long Christmas holidays in RussiaNot so long as it should have been. Pretty horrible, but I kind of agree that this should be required viewing for the "dead-zone" (50 - 1000 jump) crowd.

So sad.


skywombat  (D 31874)

Mar 25, 2013, 9:57 PM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

The following is based strictly on a translation of the news report video:
Quote:
Their fall lasted 30 seconds, falling at 50 meters per second. Eyewitnesses reported initiation of opening at approximately 70 meters. Main should be opened by at least 300 meters. They were conducting "exercise 31", which is a delayed jump. Training manual requires a delay of no more than 10 seconds when jumping from 1200m, and no more than 15 seconds when jumping from 1500m. These guys jumped from 1400m and had a 23 second delay. Cypres2 was not turned on.

Frown


(This post was edited by skywombat on Mar 25, 2013, 9:58 PM)


jjudd  (D 31065)

Mar 26, 2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

pure stupidity, notjing but. 2 people dead for no reason. Clear and pull for any hop and pop if its that cold, if you have a malfunction id imagine it might be a difficult cutaway and every bit of extra time in that weather would be nice to have.


jjudd  (D 31065)

Mar 26, 2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Snow covering the terrain effects depth perception....just sayin'


Thats why we have altimeters and ditters. and from 5k or 1200M you know you have little time to deploy regardless of any of those devices. this is a clear case of poor choices made by two jumpers that hurts the sports publicity, positive media, and now leaves two families without there loved ones.


skypuppy  (D 347)

Mar 26, 2013, 1:11 PM
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Re: [mik] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

from the video I'm a bit surprised he didn't survive the landing. get busted up, yeah, but surprised he didn't survive.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Mar 26, 2013, 1:32 PM
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Re: [skypuppy] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
from the video I'm a bit surprised he didn't survive the landing. get busted up, yeah, but surprised he didn't survive.

Are you kidding? ...The slider hadn't even begun to even come down the lines yet!! Unless the snow was >20ft deep where he hit, there was NO WAY that was survivable at that stage of impact. - Please.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 26, 2013, 2:57 PM
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Re: [pchapman] Double fatality, 8 January 2013, Dosaaf Komi, Russia [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That's a good video of how not to do a low pull.

For sure. I would never do a low pull that way. Heck I know at least 3 or 4 better ways to do a low pull than that.


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