Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Would you?

 


Chaw714  (B 37230)

Mar 14, 2013, 7:17 PM
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would you trade a 190storm for a 170 diablo? seems like its a good canopy but just want to ask around




wasatchrider

Mar 14, 2013, 7:44 PM
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Re: [MacnCheese] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

167 jumps in huntington beach he weights as much as the guy in the yellow


jonathan.newman  (D 30644)

Mar 15, 2013, 8:18 AM
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell yeah, if I had a Diablo, I'd trade it for a storm. Wingsuit, baby!

On the other hand, if I had a Storm, hell yeah, I'd trade it for a Diablo, Downsize, baby!

Seriously. Two questions need to be answered.

Is each canopy appropriate for the jumper that wants it?

Are the values of the canopies (as defined by each buyer) equal or should there be a trade with compensation?

We need more info. On the surface, it could be a good trade.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Mar 15, 2013, 8:23 AM
Post #5 of 13 (1239 views)
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Diablo is a VERY aggressive canopy. It loses more altitude in a turn than pretty much anything in a similar size. It turns VERY aggressively.

At less than 200 jumps, I'd stay away from it if I were you.


Chaw714  (B 37230)

Mar 15, 2013, 9:21 AM
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Re: [jonathan.newman] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been jumping all sorts of 170 canopies for about 25-35 jumps I'm not trying to downsize cuz of the "cool factor" with it I have just been flying my 190 for a while and am def comfortable enough on the smaller 170 mostly because I'm not that heavy, i only weigh 150-155, 175-180 with gear...I continuously have end cell closures and sometimes center cell closures and have asked everyone of the packers at a few of my local DZs and everyone tells me it's a wingloading issue not a packing issue because the canopy is only using what it needs to too catch me and so the closed cells don't need to open yet so I have to correct this...I would prefer a pulse 170 but haven't had luck finding one in good shape or cheap...I saw an add on here for a trade so I wanted to ask what others would do hope this extra info helps with more answers
Blue Skies:-)


Chaw714  (B 37230)

Mar 15, 2013, 9:57 AM
Post #7 of 13 (1178 views)
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have talked to riggers and my instructors not just packers


dragon2  (D 101989)

Mar 15, 2013, 10:09 AM
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

The diablo is the only canopy ever that scared me. And I had 800-900 jumps at the time.
It is I believe the canopy with the most roll action, ever. Not a canopy you want to make low steering mistakes on.
A friend of mine had to cut my diablo away after the canopy opened fine, due to linetwists after undoing a bootie. He loaded it at 1.8~ but you get the picture...
I'd stay far away from one at 167 jumps that's for sure.

Also the storm is worth much more, given similar condition canopies.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Mar 15, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #9 of 13 (1153 views)
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

Straight across? No, I wouldn't. A Storm is worth WAY more than a Diablo. You'd be better off selling the Storm and using that money to buy a modern design 170.


ripcord4  (D 2238)

Mar 16, 2013, 9:06 AM
Post #10 of 13 (969 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

I jumped a Diablo once....there won't be a second time. Scared me silly....I'm more than comfortable under my Spectre 210...that's why it scared me, I guess!


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Mar 18, 2013, 1:47 AM
Post #11 of 13 (817 views)
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
would you trade a 190storm for a 170 diablo? seems like its a good canopy but just want to ask around

No.

I don't think Diablos have any redeeming qualities. John LeBlanc reduced the toggle sensitivity of all canopies (Velocity, Katana, etc.) following the Stiletto because he observed jumpers having issues with roll stability on landing. The Diablo is even more sensitive and lacks the Stiletto's flat glide and plane-out which made it pleasant to fly.

This ignores market values (low for Diablo, higher for a recent PD design).

It also ignores that fully elliptical designs are inappropriate for people with under 300 jumps. That's because an elliptical will quickly point itself at the ground when told too whether or not that's what you want and at that experience level you're likely to have issues with muscle memory being sufficient to avoid over-controlling the canopy in stressful situations.

Here's a Stiletto 150 fatality at a 1.2 pound/square foot wing loading.

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=3709212


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Mar 18, 2013, 1:56 AM)


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Mar 18, 2013, 7:37 AM
Post #12 of 13 (707 views)
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Re: [Remster] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Diablo is a VERY aggressive canopy. It loses more altitude in a turn than pretty much anything in a similar size. It turns VERY aggressively.

At less than 200 jumps, I'd stay away from it if I were you.

It also requires a great deal of attention during the opening sequence. It is very sensitive to body position during opening. It will twist up if you aren't symmetrical. And if it twists up, there's a really good chance it will point itself straight at the ground in a high speed spin.

It also is unstable across the roll axis while the brakes are stowed. Which means if you initiate a turn with harness or rear risers, it will not come out of the turn on it's own, but will increase and steepen the turn if corrective action isn't taken.
And it's very sensitive to turn input so it will enter a turn very easily (read: unintentionally).


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 18, 2013, 9:25 AM
Post #13 of 13 (669 views)
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Re: [Chaw714] Would you? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't, and I loved the Diablo I had for several hundred jumps. It's a great canopy if you want something perverse that turns really, really fast (see all the descriptions), and does nothing else notable.

Most people don't want that Smile

Wendy P.



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