Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Anybody ever hear

 


heathmor

Sep 25, 2001, 6:47 PM
Post #1 of 12 (1332 views)
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Anybody ever hear Can't Post

Anybody ever hear of a pigmee rig. They are TSO approved but that is about the extent of my knowledge. I just bought one to jump this weekend to try it out. If anybody has any knowledge on these I might could use it before I jump if not I'll let everyone know how it was. What about a KAP3 AAD
Thanks Heath

If your not living on the edge; Your taking up too much space!!!


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Sep 25, 2001, 8:33 PM
Post #2 of 12 (1320 views)
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Never heard of any of it but it sounds like overseas gear. Which TSO is it approved for?

Personally if I was getting another AAD I'd get a Cypres hands down. Some AAD's are only rated for main ripcord pulls or others that are rated for reserves are known for poping at up to 3000 feet. Why spend your money on an AAD that could give you a two canopy out easly.
As for the container.... I hope you did'nt spend much on it. Name reconition goes a long way in resale value and if its a little known container imagine how hard it is going to be to get parts for it when you lose the freebag in a corn field or something.... Even for containers made here in the states its still sometimes hard to get parts for it. After Flightline went under Reflex owners were really worried about spare parts for a bit.
Just some food for thought......

Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Smile


heathmor

Sep 25, 2001, 8:59 PM
Post #3 of 12 (1316 views)
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I paid 400 for the complete rig, main, reserve, aad, container everything. with spare parts. It is Australian! It has a single handle cut away for main and reserve. The AAD is for student design. It will be replaced when I get the monet for something differant. But I don't want to spend a grand on a cypress for a 400 dollar rig. Any other suggestions on an aad for less?

If your not living on the edge; Your taking up too much space!!!


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 25, 2001, 9:10 PM
Post #4 of 12 (1314 views)
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$400 sounds like a great deal, even if it is an old student rig.
I am more curious about the canopies.
Which canopies came with your Pigmee?

Your Pigmee harness/container was built by Parachutes Australia during the 1970s or 1980s. Yes it was manufactured under an American-style TSO.
Parachutes Australia were ahead of their time when they introduced the Pigmee with its Single Operation System which used one handle to both release a malfunctioned main and deploy the reserve.
There was one Service Bulletin requiring pull-testing the SOS handle, but you can cheerfully ignore that Service Bulletin if your handle has been laying in a paddock for less than a year.
Heck, just ignore the Service Bulletin period, unless you have lots of spare handles and dollars.
A few Pigmees were built in the United States. I forget whether it was Chuck Embury or Bill Gargano who built them. Either way, the American made Pigmees are good quality.

Forget about KAP 3 AADs. KAP3s were the best AADs available in the 1950s! They are made in Czechoslovakia, but no one in North America seems to know where to get them overhauled. You might ask Ralph Hatley of "Call Ralph" about overhauling KAPs.



heathmor

Sep 25, 2001, 9:21 PM
Post #5 of 12 (1313 views)
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Thanks for the input Rob! I am not sure of the canopies. I took a chance I know the are 228's and that is about it. I don't get the rig until friday. I was going to have the rigger at our DZ inspect it then and jump it on Sat. I'll check with him if he has any info on the aad. If you are interested I will keep you updated on the progress of my findings. The guy I am getting it from has several others if anyone else is interested. But lets see how this works out first! Thanks again Rob

If your not living on the edge; Your taking up too much space!!!


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 26, 2001, 12:05 PM
Post #6 of 12 (1271 views)
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Hmm!
228 square foot canopies.
Sounds like they are Comet 228 canopies built under license by Parachutes Australia. The 228 number can be mis-leading. If you measure those canopies by PIA methods, they are more like 200 square feet. but I will have to consult my charts to be sure. The Comet series were designed by Bill Gargano, who subsequently licensed several other companies to build them.
The Comet series evolved into the Hobbit, Spirit and Wizard series of 7 cell main and reserve canopies. Strong Enterprises built that line until they introduced their own series of Stellar reserves in 1993.
Strong is still building tandem reserves that are "extrapolated" from the original Comet design.



Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Sep 26, 2001, 1:14 PM
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Ahh. This all makes me yearn for my first "square" rig: an original Wonderhog with a "black rainbow" Pegasus and a National Phantom 24. Very groovy back in the day; which is to say 1981/82.

Chuck



skyhawk

Sep 26, 2001, 10:21 PM
Post #8 of 12 (1237 views)
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yer they are australian we use at our dz for students they are big and they are green :-) (well ours are) not to bad though

i live my life 14000 ft at a time, nothen else matters, in that 60 seconds or less im free


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Sep 27, 2001, 9:51 AM
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"This all makes me yearn for my first "square" rig: an original Wonderhog"

Dude! Did you see that fatality report in Parachutist of some 59 yr old guy jumping a Wonderhog with a 24 ft LoPo round reserve. I was wondering if that had been discovered in some dark basement at USPA and accidentally got printed this month instead of 1978 when it occured??????

"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Sep 30, 2001, 8:29 AM
Post #10 of 12 (1141 views)
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>But I don't want to spend a grand on a cypress for a 400 dollar rig.
> Any other suggestions on an aad for less?

I would suggest that that's faulty reasoning. A two canopy out situation is just as dangerous under a $400 rig as it is under a $4000 rig. You are not buying an AAD to match anything; you're buying it because it might save your life. You are safer with no AAD than with a KAP-3.

My suggestion would be to go without an AAD or to spend the money and buy a Cypres. If you do decide to buy a Cypres, you will get the benefit of its protection and have a cypres you can transfer to your next rig when you decide to buy one. The only other AAD I would recommend is the Astra. I do not recommend using an FXC or Sentinel; I've seen them misfire too often.

-bill von


marcin  (D License)

Oct 2, 2001, 8:23 AM
Post #11 of 12 (1096 views)
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KAP 3 or PPKU are Russian made AAD, that open the main parachute. Entirely mechanical, a spring and a membran. They are calibrated with a screwdriver (or a 5 cents coin), require substantial strenght to pull up (the spring that pulls out the pin), you actually have to struggle with it before every jump, some girls were not strong enough to be able to pull it up. I had to jump with it on my first 70 or so round and square canopy jumps. Activation altitude accuracy is within 900 feets sometimes, however it saved some lives. As far as I was told they use them in Australia to fulfill the requirement to jump with AAD for students. I would strongly discourage anyone from using them, unless you doubt your ability to open the main in time and have enough knowledge of meteorology (calibrating is atmospheric pressure sensitive as far as I remember)

m



khtov  (D 177178)

Oct 3, 2001, 2:40 AM
Post #12 of 12 (1066 views)
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I was using these devices on my first jumps as well.

PPK-U and KAP3 AAD are 2 devices manufactured in Russia.
They are mechanical and to pull out the pin they use the spring, that you have to pull out before the jump.

KAP3 is used on military rigs only, since in counts 3 seconds and pulls.
This is because in Russian airborne troops they use parachutes with stabilizing chute which comes out by a static line when a person exits the aircraft and then after 3 seconds KAP3 or a person pulls the ripcord, which releases the lock holding the main allowing the pilot chute to drag it out and deploy.

PPK-U is more multipurpose design which along with timing mechanism for 5 seconds has a membrane allowing the device to be adjusted to a certain altitude. This allows it to be used on sport rigs as an AAD for main or reserve chutes.
In case of using it on main, mostly on student rigs with pilots chutes with spring, PPK-U is connected to the ripcord and adjusted to the altitude of around 1000m.
All rigs that I saw with such installation had CYPRES.
When used on reserve (mostly on low cost rigs) it is connected to a reserve pin and locked on it with a cord attached to the main risers, so when main comes out the risers pull out the cord and PPK-U pulls on the adjusted altitude (usually 400m) idly.

PPK-U is a design of the 50s-60s and it was rather advances for that time.
The advantage of it is low cost.
Since it is completely mechanical there are a number of disadvantages^
1. you have to pull up the spring on every jump on the ground.
2. you have to activate the device in the aircraft at the altitude at least 500 higher than preset altitude.
3. once activated it is sensitive to mechanical shock.
4. since the factory uses 760mm standard atmospheric pressure to calibrate the device, you have to know the current atmospheric pressure to set the altitude correctly.
5. it requires cleaning and testing to work properly and these procedures are being held in a limited number of workshops even in Russia.

Never the less it is still used with success on round canopy static line jumps in Russia on main and reserve canopies.


Safe swoops,

Andrew





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