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Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing

 

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Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Mar 7, 2013, 1:19 PM
Post #1 of 42 (4656 views)
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Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing Can't Post

Apologies if it's been posted before. I'm sure there is lots to say about this one.

http://youtu.be/XdbRcJfqtVU?t=1m35s

Video starts at deployment.


piisfish

Mar 7, 2013, 1:28 PM
Post #2 of 42 (4626 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Would be interesting to know what reserve that is


irishrigger  (D 297)

Mar 7, 2013, 2:08 PM
Post #3 of 42 (4587 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

looks like a step through or the bag somehow twisted through the lines during the packing. that was the start of the problem.
as for the reserve it does look big enough for the lady in question. it takes a lot of input to turn it. i am thinking it is a PDF techno or south african Tempo. if i was a betting man i would say tempo as they do have thicker steering lines then the Techno. but that is a guess on my opinion.
a couple of other points it def helps to arch during a cut away, and also certainly do a few practise flares on a reserves if time permits. it does look like she did not get much response from the flare.
any idea how she is? did she do any damage to her legs or back?

Rodger


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 7, 2013, 2:15 PM
Post #4 of 42 (4566 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty sure that is a Tempo reserve with thee Black tape on the full sail slider and the lack of tapes on the bottom skin.

130 jumps, with camera, never practice flared the new canopy and yet I could could tell it was not responsive due to the slow turn rate.... What was the expected outcome?


faulk04  (D 32457)

Mar 7, 2013, 2:17 PM
Post #5 of 42 (4564 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

From the video description

I now have a broken fibula (leg), talus (foot) and an oblique fracture all through my ankle bone. So skydive safe and pay attention while packing. This was my 130th jump.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 7, 2013, 2:26 PM
Post #6 of 42 (4530 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember seeing that video after clicking through from a dz.com thread... but who knows where it is. A search on part of the youtube URL didn't find it.

It does indeed look like the injury was due to a combination of factors. One is the famous Tempo turn. The last link in the chain was that she didn't have the experience to realize her landing might be harder, so she was totally unprepared for it and just let her legs hit and fold under her.

Somewhere deep in the youtube comments the jumper noted:

Quote:
it is still a 1:1 wingloading, both my main and reserve are 150s and I weigh about 120 maybe 125 now lol. My reserve canopy is a Tempo [..] Ya I did two practice flares and knew it was a little mushy but not that unresponsive...


hillson  (D 33134)

Mar 7, 2013, 2:33 PM
Post #7 of 42 (4517 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks like she tried to practice at about the 240-250 mark once. So there is that I guess. Also looks like she was fighting a built in turn the whole time - though there may be things I'm not understanding.

Looks too like she tried to punch it out from half brakes but I'm guessing she tried to flare like she would on her normal canopy and just stabbied it out - with no real response.

I've not been there yet so I guess I don't have that much to add...


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Mar 7, 2013, 2:34 PM
Post #8 of 42 (4513 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks to me like she didn't know what she didn't know...then got some experience the hard way.


Shredex

Mar 7, 2013, 3:14 PM
Post #9 of 42 (4462 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...
130 jumps, with camera...

Yes, cause the camera caused her hard landing. Hell she probably wore it while packing and it distracted her enough to pack a step-through! Laugh


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2013, 3:20 PM
Post #10 of 42 (4454 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Apologies if it's been posted before. I'm sure there is lots to say about this one.

http://youtu.be/XdbRcJfqtVU?t=1m35s

Video starts at deployment.


That one was picked apart pretty good on here a while back.

Most notably ~

Less than aggressive tracking considering the number of people in the formation.

No arch at all during the cut away

She didn't clear the cables & one stayed there for a while.

Back to earth while hunting for the reserve.

'Looked' like there was possibly some difficulty with the reserve pud, 2nd hand comes in to assist in deployment.

If ya see your toes pointed at the free-bag...may wanna rethink your EP's a bit.

Slow flight approach to landing creates a sink with little flare power...when she finally lets it fly the canopy just sped up the down rate.


Things could have turned out a lot worse than they did...

She should probably have an RSL...never saw someone that needed one more.

Could have been more altitude aware, had plenty of time to do it..got flustered & rushed.

I STILL don't know why so many people like soft reserve handles...you DO understand that getting it fast the first time just might save your ass. The reason they're popular is because they are cheaper - not because they are BETTER.

Got a couple thousdand jumps & some chops under your belt fine...got a B license, no chops and get a little 'flustered' now & then?...may wanna get a different handle. Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 7, 2013, 3:22 PM)
Attachments: no arch-no clearcable-res hunt.JPG (53.4 KB)
  Plan B.JPG (56.8 KB)
  unstable.JPG (65.9 KB)
  not what u wanna see.JPG (55.7 KB)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 7, 2013, 3:32 PM
Post #11 of 42 (4443 views)
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Re: [Shredex] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
130 jumps, with camera...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, cause the camera caused her hard landing. Hell she probably wore it while packing and it distracted her enough to pack a step-through!

No shithead, it's a link in the chain. It shows a general disregard for regulations, as does her fighting a mal after her audible flat-lined on deployment. As does her poor execution of EPs (no arch). As does her failure to practice flare her reserve. As does the lack of attempt to PLF.

If she had followed the basic instructions given to a first jump student, she probably would not have been hurt. She also would have cutaway higher, with a better body position (reducing the risk of a reserve mal), and possibly not needed the FJC PLF if she had practice flared her canopy in a meaningful way.

The camera is simply another box to tick off as to what she did wrong. It's contribution is that it points to an attitude of nonchalance, not just a single simple mistake like a mis-timed flare.

Learn to see the forest from the trees.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Mar 7, 2013, 4:03 PM
Post #12 of 42 (4414 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
picked apart pretty good on here a while back.
Oops. Oh well then.

In reply to:
Less than aggressive tracking considering the number of people in the formation.

No arch at all during the cut away

She didn't clear the cables & one stayed there for a while.

Back to earth while hunting for the reserve.

'Looked' like there was possibly some difficulty with the reserve pud, 2nd hand comes in to assist in deployment.

If ya see your toes pointed at the free-bag...may wanna rethink your EP's a bit.

Slow flight approach to landing creates a sink with little flare power...when she finally lets it fly the canopy just sped up the down rate.


Things could have turned out a lot worse than they did...

She should probably have an RSL...never saw someone that needed one more.

Could have been more altitude aware, had plenty of time to do it..got flustered & rushed.

I STILL don't know why so many people like soft reserve handles...you DO understand that getting it fast the first time just might save your ass. The reason they're popular is because they are cheaper - not because they are BETTER.

Got a couple thousdand jumps & some chops under your belt fine...got a B license, no chops and get a little 'flustered' now & then?...may wanna get a different handle. Wink
Thanks for the great post. Smile


rnicks  (A License)

Mar 7, 2013, 4:41 PM
Post #13 of 42 (4374 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2nd hand comes in to assist in deployment.

I'm curious about this. You make it sound as if this is not how it is suppose to be done. This is the way I practice, (with both hands on each handle) before every jump. Is there a better way?

I know a lot of people do the one hand method, but that feels uncomfortable to me. Is there a safety reason I shouldn't be using two hands?


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 7, 2013, 5:22 PM
Post #14 of 42 (4333 views)
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Re: [rnicks] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
2nd hand comes in to assist in deployment.

I'm curious about this. You make it sound as if this is not how it is suppose to be done. This is the way I practice, (with both hands on each handle) before every jump. Is there a better way?

I know a lot of people do the one hand method, but that feels uncomfortable to me. Is there a safety reason I shouldn't be using two hands?


No not at all...If that's how you were trained & feel comfortable with it - use it.

It just looked to 'me'...and I could be wrong here, that she initially tried fishing for it with one hand...the 2nd hand then comes down to wrap both hands on the pud - likely to help the peel since she punches it out with one hand.

Speculation - it was a 1st cut-away and obviously the nerves were fryin' a bit.

You can & should practice your EP's weekly as far as the order and hand placement...you 'need' to do it at repack time actually pulling the handles so when your ass is on the line it's not he very first time you've ever done it.

And if you can use the hanging harness even better.

Personally ~ I use the one hand method, firmly gripping the cut-away pad in the right, hooking my thumb in the STEEL RIPCORD handle and making a fist.

Head back, legs back, spine arched & chop...as I get belly to earth I start to bring my knees up so I'm in head high (clean air over the reserve pack tray) orientation...then punch out with the left.

Done that 14 times - twice below 500' ~ I know it works for ME so that's what I use...YOU do what you're most comfortable with.


DHemer  (A License)

Mar 8, 2013, 2:11 AM
Post #15 of 42 (4188 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm still new to the sport but I was under the impression reserve steering toggles were always red by convention, the vid shows yellow toggles


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Mar 8, 2013, 7:32 AM
Post #16 of 42 (4080 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Something that caught my attention...

She is grabbing at the risers of both the main and the reserve as the canopies are opening!! This is probly what caused the initial line twists and also affected the reserve opening sequence. Very, very bad habit.

Lesson... fly stable during the opening sequence. Continue to use your hands to fly your body thru the opening of the canopy, givingt it a chance to open smoothly. Smile


(This post was edited by skyjumpenfool on Mar 8, 2013, 7:34 AM)
Attachments: 1.gif (33.0 KB)


irishrigger  (D 297)

Mar 8, 2013, 7:39 AM
Post #17 of 42 (4065 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

i dont think it was line twist was the probnlem. if you have a closer look you will see a step through on the lines.
but i do agree about grabbing the risers and its much better to leave them alone. prob just a habit that people have. i done it a couple times myself Blush


piisfish

Mar 8, 2013, 7:40 AM
Post #18 of 42 (4061 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Something that caught my attention...

She is grabbing at the risers of both the main and the reserve as the canopies are opening!! This is probly what caused the initial line twists
the stepthrough didn'd catch your attention ? Shocked


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 8, 2013, 7:46 AM
Post #19 of 42 (4055 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Something that caught my attention...

She is grabbing at the risers of both the main and the reserve as the canopies are opening!! This is probly what caused the initial line twists and also affected the reserve opening sequence. Very, very bad habit.

Lesson... fly stable during the opening sequence. Continue to use your hands to fly your body thru the opening of the canopy, givingt it a chance to open smoothly. Smile


We were talking about that 'habit' once...I kinda think it's almost an unconscious reaction to 'help me I'm falling'.

On the main in this case you can see there's a step-through causing the problem, I doubt any riser input made a difference.

But yes on the reserve ya be careful...you can alter the sequence and load one side if not careful.


That being said...I use to jump a Unit 3, ya almost HAD to get radical on the fronts during opening get it inflated in less than 1500' Crazy


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Mar 8, 2013, 8:26 AM
Post #20 of 42 (4022 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the stepthrough didn'd catch your attention ? Shocked

It did, and it was talked about above.

I was simply commenting on a common problem that can be very dangerous. If you look at the picture above, I grabbed that screen as soon as you could see the canopy opening. Note, the uneven risers and hands all over them. Including, fingers already in the brake handle. Unsure

My perspective here, but, I'd say the body position and the grabbing hands are a bigger issue, especially from a training aspect. A canopy can open with a step thru without the line twists and spin. You still may be looking at a chop, but without the line twists/spin, you'd be dealing with a low speed malfunction giving you more time to think/act. Not to mention, you'd have a better chance of coming out of the cutaway stable. And... less chance of a hard cutaway do to line twists or spin. Smile

As always, IMHO. Cool


Deyan  (D 322)

Mar 8, 2013, 1:59 PM
Post #21 of 42 (3778 views)
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Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't add anything to the discussion about the poor landing performance of the jumper, but I saw something while watching the video.

What I'm going to point out has nothing to do with that girl breaking herself on landing!!!

The jumper has a Vector 3 with Tempo reserve .
The reserve is with soft links.
The main risers are not RWS/UPT. The RSL ring is on the wrong side.
It's a good thing that she didn't have an RSL because the RSL side (right for Vectors) released first.
The cutaway handle is not RWS/UPT. ( they don't make them flat )
The reserve handle is most likely from Javelin. The handle is slim and there's a label with the part and batch #'s sewn under the velcro.

On the positive side, the freebag and the RPC were Vector's :)
Attachments: release handle.jpg (119 KB)
  reserve handle.jpg (119 KB)
  risers release.jpg (127 KB)
  soft links.jpg (121 KB)


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Mar 8, 2013, 4:42 PM
Post #22 of 42 (3684 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe just the camera angle but it sure looks like she is looking down at the ground instead of out at the horizon when she is coming in to land. She also tries to collapse her reserve slider...


firemedic  (D 29776)

Mar 8, 2013, 7:01 PM
Post #23 of 42 (3622 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of room for improvement here but I do want to point out one positive element I noticed. Her reserve was deploying at 2390 ft. Look at the pic labeled reserve handle in the post above.


sundevil777  (D License)

Mar 8, 2013, 7:11 PM
Post #24 of 42 (3614 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The reserve is with soft links.

What is the significance of that?


sundevil777  (D License)

Mar 8, 2013, 9:10 PM
Post #25 of 42 (3557 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Video - Cutaway followed by hard landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Some would say that not having an RSL when wearing a camera is a good thing. Of course that was countered by deploying the reserve while in a bad position for having a snag hazard on your helmet.


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