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First Demo!

 


EOCS  (C License)

Mar 1, 2013, 4:03 AM
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First Demo! Can't Post

HI,

Just wanted to let the world know that i managed my first real demo jump, on to a frozen lake of all places, this last sunday! I live in Estonia and it was their 95th independence day celebration. As the local airport was snowed in we actually closed down part of the highway with police and landed/tookoff from there. There were only 3 of us willing to go up as it was forecast to be really cold but that was fine as the little demo cessna only holds 3. Out of those 3 i was the most experienced and only one with a C license so i took the flag. Will take the time to note that im actually from USA so this seemed a bit odd to me that i would be flying the Estonian flag and not an Estonian but so what right? This was also my first time solo spotting and flying a flag of any kind! This is for sure where the dont try more then one new thing at a time idea makes total sense. I ended up putting us out way way early and as the first out i had planned to open at 1km and the others on the load at 1.2km. Once opened i had to get the flag out of my pocket and hook it up to my shoe which took quite a bit more time then i had practiced and kept me in a left turn due to the harness offset of me lifting my leg :D Once i got that set i popped the brakes and headed twords the landing area. I fly a pilot 132 at about 1.5 WL so i was able to make decent ground back to the LZ however i didnt have altitude left for the planned demo pattern, lucky for me the others had opened at 1.2 and were taking their time coming down so i was able to fly straight in and land in the wrong direction in no wind. Ended up being a better demo then planned as i was able to fly past more people and with the flag on the correct side.

The 2nd person out saw me landing the incorrect direction and decided he would aswell and ended up overshooting the LZ by about 250m. And the least experienced one of us (60 jumps) came in perfectly patterned and landed right where she had intended.

Over all the demo went perfectly fine and of course none of the spectators had any idea that anything was wrong other then the 2nd who landed way out

Things i have learned from this jump:
*The one new things at a time rule has merit.
*I had judged the exit point while we made a first pass when the plane was flying at full speed, i used this same point to exit later when the plane was much slower so climbing out didnt take as much distance as i had calculated before. I will remember this.
*Just gotta grab you leg and clip the flag on, there isnt going to be a smooth easy way to do it haha
*On a demo jump its a good idea to leave that extra room between each other in case something like this happens and the plan needs to change mid flight.
*Because we had planned the demo as much as we did we were easily able to make adjustments when it was needed, could always be planned better as we had planned the demo around how we wanted to fly not how it would look best to the people on the ground (safety was not much of an issue here, we just wanted to land left turn)
*Pilot has epic glide!

Here are some pics and a link to the vid i put together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ury1kq0miGY

I welcome questions/comments!


(This post was edited by EOCS on Mar 1, 2013, 4:04 AM)
Attachments: Demo.jpg (191 KB)
  First Demo2.jpg (27.7 KB)


piisfish

Mar 1, 2013, 6:10 AM
Post #2 of 18 (1898 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I welcome questions/comments!
-200 jumps, 1.5 WL Unsure
-60 jumps and into a demo Unsure

congrats for surviving
nice suit color


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 1, 2013, 6:48 AM
Post #3 of 18 (1865 views)
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Re: [piisfish] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I welcome questions/comments!
-200 jumps, 1.5 WL Unsure
-60 jumps and into a demo Unsure

congrats for surviving
nice suit color

Don't forget first time solo spotting. Unsure

Congrats on surviving, don't push it!


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Mar 1, 2013, 6:59 AM)


Willi91  (C 2309)

Mar 1, 2013, 8:23 AM
Post #4 of 18 (1774 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

I also did my first demo with around 200 jumps.
But I was the least experienced on the load and my WL was below 1.0.
I'm no expert, but IMO this jump put a lot in jeopardy.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 1, 2013, 9:07 AM
Post #5 of 18 (1720 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a pretty good example showing why demos need to be given respect, and things practiced ahead of time. (Like fiddling with flags.) When one is a demo newbie, simple little ones with wide open landing areas are indeed helpful.

Hey I'm OK with some places having more casual demo rules than others, and am not going to rant here. But still, having the most experienced jumper not have any spotting experience is pushing it, big open area or not. That kind of takes the sport back to about 1962 or so as far as collective knowledge goes.

Guess you learned at a turbine DZ? An actual wind drift indicator drop can be very handy for demos to figure out the winds in an unknown location where you are the first load of the day...


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 1, 2013, 9:34 AM
Post #6 of 18 (1693 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad it all went okay. Demos are a lot of fun.Smile

Please learn from what went well and what did not go so well. What would you do differently next time?

Also, how big was the landing area?


EOCS  (C License)

Mar 1, 2013, 10:16 AM
Post #7 of 18 (1660 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone,

Thanks all for the comments, i knew the WL would most likely get some and i wont argue.

pissfish,theolnyski
The jumper with 60 jumps grew up in the town where we jumped into, she knows it very well and is a competent person and there were only 3 of us who know each other well in the air. We all made sure we and our local instructors were ok with it before.

First spot on a demo, Yes i agree this was not the best of ideas and i will make sure to review everything i have in my head with the locals.

Suit is for snowboarding :) but yea i like it too!

pchapman

This is another thing that i learned from this experience, that demos take alot more planning and forethought then i had thought at first. I will surely take this into consideration in the future

JohnMitchell

Thanks, im also glad it went ok and that everyone landed safe. I will for sure learn from everything that happened. What would i have done differently/next time? i would have gotten a better briefing from someone experianced in demos so that i could have planned it better. Spotting i would have done more of had the season not run out and i shall continue to do so once im jumping alot again. I would have looked at an aerial photo before hand, this i have no excuse for other then i didnt think of it as google earth exists. I would have consulted instructors on what they thought of said photo. I would have thought more about the demo landing pattern as it would have offered better view of us the way i came in. (wrong direction according to plan but right for the demo) The flag set up i would do from a hanging harness and not standing as its much different under canopy then standing in the parking lot.

Landing area was a huge frozen lake with plenty of other outs if need be.

Feedback welcome, im here to learn.
Thanks!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 1, 2013, 10:40 AM
Post #8 of 18 (1608 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

>The jumper with 60 jumps grew up in the town where we jumped into, she knows it
>very well and is a competent person

"Growing up where you jumped into" is a huge liability in a demo, not an advantage.

Also other aircraft in the area just adds to the problems you might encounter. Make sure to clear your airspace before jumping.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 1, 2013, 12:13 PM
Post #9 of 18 (1506 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

 





Congrats on the FIRST demo!

Sounds like it was a memorable one for sure. Cool





~ As far as comments;

*The one new things at a time rule has merit.

The 'one new thing at a time rule' pertains to Skydiving...not demo jumping.

For the very reasons you've outlined here, never NEVER do something on a demo you haven't practiced extensively prior. That's a Golden Rule in being a successful demonstration jumper.

IF you had practiced the flag deployment in the air prior 8 or 10 times you may have come up with a faster easier way as far as where & how you connect it, you most certainly would have been quicker & smoother getting it out & open having done it more.

*I had judged the exit point while we made a first pass when the plane was flying at full speed, i used this same point to exit later when the plane was much slower so climbing out didn't take as much distance as i had calculated before. I will remember this.

~ When you say 'judged the exit point' I take it you didn't use a WDI?
It always a good idea to use a wind drift indicator to spot a demo. Throw it dead nuts over the target at your opening altitude, you can watch where it goes as you 'circle-climb' higher to the exit altitude.

If there's an announcer he can colorfully explain what it is & how you use it bla bla bla...

Wind drift indicators were/are designed to simulate the drift you would experience on a round parachute, it was critical to exit exactly on point regarding distance & wind-line. That's obviously not as critical with squares but it's generally very useful to have that information current & specific to the LZ prior to exiting.
If I'm spotting and jumping the flag I cut the WDI distance in 1/2...I know I can hold into the wind all the way down if needed and still hit the target, which brings me to a couple of flag flyin' hints-

The flag should always be the last one to land, if it's first out the others either need to pull lower or spiral down below it.
When spotting the exit point, look down & figure out your optimal pattern...Take into consideration it's not the 'landing' pattern it's the flag display pattern. That's the reason you're there after all, give the crowd the longest possible look at the flag without having to look into the sun. Think 1/2 brakes to stay up longer and cause less flapping, and think cross wind base & finals if necessary to keep the sun positioned right, easy to do a quick turn into the wind at 50 feet.

-You guys 'planned the demo how you wanted to fly it' not worrying about the presentation aspects of the 'demo'...was probably a good idea given the circumstances.

Again congrats of breaking the cherry...everyone walked away so it was a success, now learn & improve, it what we ALL do on EVERY demo! Wink


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 1, 2013, 1:31 PM
Post #10 of 18 (1462 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:





Take into consideration it's not the 'landing' pattern it's the flag display pattern. That's the reason you're there after all, give the crowd the longest possible look at the flag without having to look into the sun. Think 1/2 brakes to stay up longer and cause less flapping, and think cross wind base & finals if necessary to keep the sun positioned right, easy to do a quick turn into the wind at 50 feet.

-You guys 'planned the demo how you wanted to fly it' not worrying about the presentation aspects of the 'demo'...was probably a good idea given the circumstances.

Again congrats of breaking the cherry...everyone walked away so it was a success, now learn & improve, it what we ALL do on EVERY demo! Wink
Thanks for the flag tips and the damn solid advice, Twardo. Smile


EOCS  (C License)

Mar 1, 2013, 3:14 PM
Post #11 of 18 (1423 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

billvon
Can you please explain what you mean by jumping into the place you grew up is a liability? false sense of security?

airtwardo
Thanks for taking the time to write, there is alot of sound advice here. Your point about doing things actually in the air prior to jumping for a crowd makes alot of sense now that ive done it, things would have went alot smother. By the time i did get the flag hooked up i understood how to do it reasonably quick, but yea that took time on the live jump Crazy

I had judged the point on ground covered per 5 sec and so put the exit point for me about 15 sec before where i thought first person (me) should get out at, i wanted to set up the middle jumped just before the demo landing area and the third slightly behind it. Everyone agreed to this idea. Hoever the distance covered in 5 sec changed when the plan slowed to make the jump run and i still had it in my head to exit at the same point. You are correct in that we did not use any WDI. ive only seen this done with the round parachute club next to us and actually not heard of it being used for people jumping squares, will follow this up with locals. I did however check lower and upper winds the day before and in the hours before the jump on site. Im glad everything was basically 0-1ms as due to my long spot i landed what would have been considered down wind if it was stronger. Although if the wind had been stronger i would have either made it back in time for pattern or aborted and landed off but against the wind, safety first.

But yes its for sure one i will remember for a long time to come and i believe its a great learning experience, I have taken alot away from this one Cool


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Mar 1, 2013, 3:32 PM
Post #12 of 18 (1404 views)
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In reply to:
billvon
Can you please explain what you mean by jumping into the place you grew up is a liability? false sense of security?

Possibly getting too excited to perform in front of all your friends and family that you miss a detail or two or hot-dog it a little bit?

Been there, done that. Blush


piisfish

Mar 2, 2013, 1:04 AM
Post #13 of 18 (1284 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

I do believe you when you say she is very competent. Fact is that she is the only one who performed as planned :-)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Mar 4, 2013, 3:22 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1011 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
First spot on a demo, Yes i agree this was not the best of ideas and i will make sure to review everything i have in my head with the locals.

Spotting i would have done more of had the season not run out and i shall continue to do so once im jumping alot again. I would have looked at an aerial photo before hand, this i have no excuse for other then i didnt think of it as google earth exists. I would have consulted instructors on what they thought of said photo.

I'm going top be a little harsh here because it is warranted.

The only thing in that entire writing that indicates that you have any clue on how to spot is the reference to the aerial photo.

200 jumps and don't know how to spot?
C License?
Who is the student that signed off on you A-license card? He is no instructor of any worth or you have major listening/learning dysfunction.

For your own safety and for the safety of those for whom you will be spotting for in the future, please learn to spot correctly before you put yourself and others at risk like that.. The people there are not knowledgeable, obviously , or they would have helped you out in the first place.

Read the SIM. Get a calculator and crunch some wind numbers. It's really not hard at all.




I would have thought more about the demo landing pattern as it would have offered better view of us the way i came in. (wrong direction according to plan but right for the demo) The flag set up i would do from a hanging harness and not standing as its much different under canopy then standing in the parking lot.

Landing area was a huge frozen lake with plenty of other outs if need be.

Feedback welcome, im here to learn.
Thanks!


ufk22  (D 16168)

Mar 4, 2013, 8:58 AM
Post #15 of 18 (923 views)
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Re: [EOCS] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

A big second to the Wind drift indicator.
It can be a lifesaver, especially if the winds change while you're on your way to altitude.
Most of the other things have been covered, but....
Release your brakes before you deploy/hook up anything. I've never jumped a flag that small, but with big flags/streamers, etc, I always wait to make any final connections til I have a canopy that I know I can land safely.
Period.
If one of your brakes had locked or anything else happened that required you to chop, would you want to do that with the flag hanging out?????


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 4, 2013, 9:04 AM
Post #16 of 18 (916 views)
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>Can you please explain what you mean by jumping into the place you grew up is a
>liability? false sense of security?

Partly. Thinking "I know that place like the back of my hand; a demo should be a piece of cake" is definitely a danger. People don't know about things like wind shadows, powerlines and outs just because they grew up there.

But a much bigger risk is demo fever, an irrationally strong need to jump into one's home town/high school/family wedding/high profile demo etc. "I CAN'T back out of this one! All my friends are down there and I told them I was going to do it!" It is by far the most dangerous part of any demo for newer jumpers; they are willing to disregard even the rudimentary judgment they have developed over a few hundred jumps to do the demo at any cost. I've seen half a dozen jumpers injured because of this phenomenon.

Thus an excellent first demo is a demo a mile away from the normal DZ, done as a training exercise. No one around, not as much pressure, no one to disappoint if you don't jump or choose an out.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Mar 4, 2013, 10:33 AM
Post #17 of 18 (846 views)
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In reply to:
Thus an excellent first demo is a demo a mile away from the normal DZ, done as a training exercise. No one around, not as much pressure, no one to disappoint if you don't jump or choose an out.

Absolutely good stuff.


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 4, 2013, 11:49 AM
Post #18 of 18 (805 views)
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Re: [ufk22] First Demo! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A big second to the Wind drift indicator.
It can be a lifesaver, especially if the winds change while you're on your way to altitude.
Most of the other things have been covered, but....
Release your brakes before you deploy/hook up anything. I've never jumped a flag that small, but with big flags/streamers, etc, I always wait to make any final connections til I have a canopy that I know I can land safely.
Period.
If one of your brakes had locked or anything else happened that required you to chop, would you want to do that with the flag hanging out?????


Ummm....Laugh


Though that sounds like it's safer 'in theory' ~ I always deploy my extra gear first...and here's why:

More often than not while jumping a demo there are several others sharing a relatively tight sector of air-space.

The last thing ya wanna do is be charging around full bore with your eyes, hands & attention on the flag, smoke or streamer & not on where you're going.

When I pack for a demo I always triple check the brake system for easy functionality, I also give it a hard look upon deployment, if anything looks funky I'll straight that out first.

IF you should have a brake hang up, what's the worse that's gonna happen?
-You pull down on the released one and stop the spin.

You now have time to consider one of several options~

- You can either re-set the good one temporarily by using the cat's-eye, ring & toggle or chomp down on the handle to hold it while you try to un-bind the stuck one.

- You can hook knife the steering line and go in on the rears.

- You can drop the deployed demo gear safely into the large open area you should be over prior to deploying anything anyway...and proceed with a 'normal' cut-away.
You will likely be in a better & safer configuration, not having that crap strapped to you during the chop.

My main & reserve are the same size & same red, white & blue color pattern...if I function on deployment few can tell.

Once under the reserve I then deploy the demo gear...brakes on for all the same reasons stated above, and continue with the performance.

If the canopy is square & flyin' I have no problem landing on the rears - gear deployed.

Demo jumping isn't skydiving - the three priorities in order are:

Don't hurt anyone on the ground.

Don't get hurt.

DO give the promoter exactly what you said you would...flag, smoke, streamer or whatever - on time & on target.

One must be able to DO all three EVERY TIME ~ it's a business & professionalism is the key to success.

If one can only do 2 out of the 3, they're 'just another Skydiver' ~ fuckin' up a demo!

Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 4, 2013, 1:40 PM)



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