Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
Determining weights

potatoman  (Student)

Feb 25, 2013, 5:53 AM
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Hi,

When jumping with a new team, is there a formula or way to determine how much weight would be required?

Lets say I fall at 125, and I know the team rate is 138. How would I know before hand, how much to use, or at least an estimate.

Maybe 1Lb=xMph???

Feb 25, 2013, 6:41 AM
Post #2 of 16 (1865 views)
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No formula.

If you're slow, start with 6 or 8 lbs (if you can do it safely landing wise). Any less is more psychological than anything. Add 2 lbs at a time to get to your middle range.

rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 25, 2013, 7:14 AM
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If you're slow, start with 6 or 8 lbs (if you can do it safely landing wise). Any less is more psychological than anything. Add 2 lbs at a time to get to your middle range.

this ^

A good drill for all of you to go up together and get in a fairly loose circle. Now (if you are all decent enough to hold a column of air)

signal from the IC
everyone close your eyes and relax into a comfortable, middle of your range, mantis posture
slowly count to 5 or 10
open your eyes and find each other

it'll be pretty clear who needs more lead and who needs to start exercising and eating better

actually, video is good here to identify if anyone 'relaxes' into a really crappy body position - they might need to 'fix' that before anyone adjusts lead (someone might just 'relax' into a heels on butt backslide or something....that would just mess up the exercise and require more basic training first)

edit: tunnel time is different, it's a VERY quick and effective exercise and not need to do the eyes closed thing at all - just get in there and see who's straining slow and fast and get the fixes done real time. I'd hesitate to put 4 people in a tunnel with eyes closed at the same time

(This post was edited by rehmwa on Feb 25, 2013, 7:17 AM)

chuckakers  (D 10855)

Feb 28, 2013, 6:17 PM
Post #4 of 16 (1670 views)
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No formula.

If you're slow, start with 6 or 8 lbs (if you can do it safely landing wise). Any less is more psychological than anything. Add 2 lbs at a time to get to your middle range.

Mar 1, 2013, 6:34 AM
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I was covering my ass for the opposite reply: "you told someone to add weights and they'll kill themselves under the higher wingload"

chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 1, 2013, 7:39 AM
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I was covering my ass for the opposite reply: "you told someone to add weights and they'll kill themselves under the higher wingload"

The opposite reply is ridiculous. Don't feed absurdity through acknowledgement.

May 20, 2013, 6:59 PM
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chuckakers wrote:
I was covering my ass for the opposite reply: "you told someone to add weights and they'll kill themselves under the higher wingload"

The opposite reply is ridiculous. Don't feed absurdity through acknowledgement.

But this is dropzone dot com.

3mpire  (C 39657)

May 22, 2013, 9:22 AM
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Something we are struggling with is that OC (me) and point fall a faster than IC and Tail (tail is the lightest and wears the most lead). Even with ~16 pounds of lead on tail, we are struggling with levels issues on certain blocks. We're considering switching slots so that each piece has one heavier and one lighter person just to try to balance some things out a bit.

I only include this anecdote to illustrate that it's not often just individual fall rates you have to take into account, but how pieces fly when you have different people paired.

degeneration  (C 106811)

May 23, 2013, 4:18 AM
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Put more lead on tail and IC?

3mpire  (C 39657)

May 23, 2013, 10:13 AM
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Yeah we're going to try several combinations to see how it works. the levels issues are all in the tunnel, in the sky things don't seem as bad though we haven't put this particular 4 way group in the sky much yet so we will see.

Not to hijack the thread, I just wanted to put it out there that sometimes determining weights is a group not an individual thing once you start flying as pieces (each piece has a fall rate and adding or removing weight from one person in that piece can change how the piece flys)

rehmwa  (D 12816)

May 23, 2013, 10:48 AM
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degeneration wrote:
Put more lead on tail and IC?

this

(or the faster fallers choose salad more often)

trying to 'balance' the 'average' fall rate of pieces is a poor banadaid to not getting weighted correctly. Each individual needs to be in their comfort zone without hanging onto another flyer

(i.e., you are going to be handcuffed until everyone is in the position to fly no contact/no grip block drills comfortably)

Quote:
but how pieces fly when you have different people paired.

this needs to only be about skills compatibility, if you're considering fall rate balancing as part of the equation, then you've already lost the battle

(This post was edited by rehmwa on May 23, 2013, 10:49 AM)

3mpire  (C 39657)

May 23, 2013, 1:18 PM
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You make very good points - I eat like crap. I will suggest we keep working on moving lead around while I work on flying slower and see how far that gets us. Our latest efforts have been in the tunnel so I'm really curious if it will be as big of an issue in the air.

rehmwa  (D 12816)

May 24, 2013, 5:55 AM
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I don't know your skill levels. BUT, there's an AH Ha! moment when you get good enough.

IMHO -
1 - it's easier in the tunnel than in the sky. but the tunnel does highlight mistakes more blatantly

2 - while getting weighted to each other.....you'll see a dramatic increase in scores when you guys are able to fly the blocks in the tunnel without taking grips (no grip block drills). It'll open your eyes.

it takes a lot of time and practice - but it's very fun. good luck

I was just teasing and being wry about the salad comment. It is a big challenge to get fall rates cleaned up when you have a team of very disproportionate flyers. But....I do find that people don't really have a as much differences as they initially think at first. Get a good mantis camp for everyone and you might find your differences aren't as bad as you think.....

The last camp I taught, a couple brothers thought they were real heavy weights. They weren't - though it was quite a challenge to get the one to fly in an arch instead of dearching as was his habit. (just last week, an Airspeed member told him the exact same thing I was coaching him on and that topic - now THAT's good reinforcement).

(This post was edited by rehmwa on May 24, 2013, 5:56 AM)

kallend  (D 23151)

May 24, 2013, 9:04 AM
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I haven't studied the physics of this in any detail, but it seems to me that while you can use weights, suit fabric, etc. to match fall rates of highly mismatched body types in a no-contact situation, this is a kind of "static balancing". Once you start turning points, piece moves, etc., you are in a dynamic situation and the static balance may not be enough.

elightle  (D 5966)

May 24, 2013, 10:07 AM
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Centers set the fall rate so put the fastest fallers there.

potatoman  (Student)

May 24, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Sounds like we can change our team name to "disproportionate flyers".

Anyhow, from the original post, I was trying to get to a formula, but that seems nearly impossible.

Anyhow, couple of weights, some fabric change, and we gots a fairly noob team turning points, woohoo.

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