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Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects

 

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dcskydive  (C 3457)

Feb 18, 2013, 9:53 PM
Post #1 of 26 (5050 views)
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Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects Can't Post

So after about 50 jumps on a new Aerodyne Icon Rig the stiffener on the riser flap begun to cut through the cordura flap. Shortly after, the same happened to the reserve portion of the flap. It appears that this is a manufacturing defect (several riggers have confirmed this with me at various dropzones).

I have been attempting to contact Aerodyne for over a year now and received no reply worth mentioning. I even attempted contacting a few of their reps directly and received no reply to date.

Can someone recommend anyone within the company that might be willing to reply to one of my emails / calls? Their website only point to 'info@flyaerodyne.com' which has proven to be useless.

I'm disappointed with their customer service to say the least.
Both my main and container are Aerodyne, but I don't think I'll ever buy from them again nor would I recommend anyone else do the same if this is the way they treat customers.

Has anyone else had problems with them or is it just me?
More importantly, has anyone else had quality issues with their gear?

Pics attached below.


(This post was edited by dcskydive on Feb 18, 2013, 9:55 PM)
Attachments: Tuck Tab 02.jpg (576 KB)
  Tuck Tab 01.jpg (417 KB)


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 19, 2013, 5:45 AM
Post #2 of 26 (4873 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Has anyone else had problems with them or is it just me?
More importantly, has anyone else had quality issues with their gear?

Sent you a PM on the contact info subject.

As far as the gear: They seem to use a grommet cutter that is the exact size 0 for punching a hole into the reserve PC kicker flap... The problem is when they put their grommet into it, the grommet is just a tad bit wider than the hole, so it doesn't set all the way and causes the flap to 'flop'. The edge of the grommet also usually tends to stick up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVB_VGN3fc

This causes the stiffener to develop a crack in it and need to be replaced. I took that video and then pulled the stiffener out of the flap, it was about a good 2.5" crack from the hole to the end.

The replacement I put a hole big enough for the grommet to fit in properly and that rig hasn't been an issue since. I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy


dcskydive  (C 3457)

Feb 19, 2013, 7:06 AM
Post #3 of 26 (4807 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Has anyone else had problems with them or is it just me?
More importantly, has anyone else had quality issues with their gear?

Sent you a PM on the contact info subject.

Thanks for the PM. I actually tried contacting him directly via that same email back in December requesting aerodyne to perform about $700 in standard maintenance (reline, reserve repack, cypress servicing, etc). I also asked him about the issues I was having with my rig.

As of today, neither he nor the generic aerodyne email address I CC'd it to has replied to my request :(

I ended up having the servicing done at a local DZ in Florida.

Unfortunately the rigger refused to declare my rig airworthy due to the snag hazard on the riser flaps (due to the defect). I had to let them perform a quick patch job on it just to be allowed to fly it again.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 19, 2013, 7:07 AM
Post #4 of 26 (4803 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy

We're listening!!! Smile


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 19, 2013, 7:09 AM
Post #5 of 26 (4796 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy

We're listening!!! Smile

http://www.dropzone.com/...string=icon;#4311339

That was a few Icon's ago, and so far, if I recall correctly, ALL do it. I shot off an email or two to Aerodyne about it as well with no luck.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Feb 19, 2013, 7:22 AM
Post #6 of 26 (4771 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy

We're listening!!! Smile

http://www.dropzone.com/...string=icon;#4311339

That was a few Icon's ago, and so far, if I recall correctly, ALL do it. I shot off an email or two to Aerodyne about it as well with no luck.

How about a phone call?


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 19, 2013, 7:24 AM
Post #7 of 26 (4766 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy

We're listening!!! Smile

http://www.dropzone.com/...string=icon;#4311339

That was a few Icon's ago, and so far, if I recall correctly, ALL do it. I shot off an email or two to Aerodyne about it as well with no luck.

How about a phone call?

Did that too, when I requested the replacement stiffener.


strife

Feb 19, 2013, 12:27 PM
Post #8 of 26 (4568 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

What have they said over the phone ? or havent you been able to make contact there as well.

What is the DOM of the rig, that looks terrible, Im only a novice but I would be to worried to jump that even if it was patched.


holie  (A License)

Feb 19, 2013, 12:38 PM
Post #9 of 26 (4548 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

... did You try this?

Aerodyne - sanzlk - Sandy Kimball
http://www.dropzone.com/...cgi?username=sanzlk;

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

just an idea Cool


dcskydive  (C 3457)

Feb 23, 2013, 1:36 PM
Post #10 of 26 (4128 views)
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Re: [holie] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... did You try this?

Aerodyne - sanzlk - Sandy Kimball
http://www.dropzone.com/...cgi?username=sanzlk;

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

just an idea Cool

I have tried contacting a few aerodyne dealers, one of them made several attempts to contact them with little progress. Thanks for the contact info though, I will give Sandy a try!

I now have my rig back online, however with the patch, the riser flap now blows opened as soon as I leave the plane or sometimes just while sitting down (just like it did when I first bought the rig up until the time the stiffener cut through the Cordura and relieved the tension).

This is a little bit unsettling, especially when freeflying and at opening time (seems to cause my canopy to spin up, maybe due to uneven riser tension at extraction?)


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Feb 23, 2013, 2:55 PM
Post #11 of 26 (4089 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
however with the patch, the riser flap now blows opened as soon as I leave the plane or sometimes just while sitting down


Quote:
seems to cause my canopy to spin up, maybe due to uneven riser tension at extraction

These need to be addressed before your jump next IMO.


dcskydive  (C 3457)

Feb 23, 2013, 3:57 PM
Post #12 of 26 (4051 views)
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Re: [strife] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What have they said over the phone ? or havent you been able to make contact there as well.

What is the DOM of the rig, that looks terrible, Im only a novice but I would be to worried to jump that even if it was patched.

One of their dealers contacted Aerodyne directly for me about a year ago, he told me they were arguing that the damage was my fault and due to poor care of the rig. I was pretty disappointed by that reply as I take great care of my gear (always in a gear bag when on my back, never dragged across the packing mat, etc).

The DOM is 2009. These problems begun to appear with 50-100 jumps on the container (some time in near the end of 2010). Like I said I have been trying to have aerodyne take responsibility for this issue for quite some time but they seem to prefer to ignore me :(

If I truly believed I some how caused this damage I'd let it go, however rigger after rigger has told me that there is a manufacturing deficiency with the container and that it is in no way my fault.

I'm more so concerned now that the last rigger wouldn't even deem it air worthy without patching it first, the reserve riser covers still remain exposed (as she refused to touch them / was unable to make any fixes to it easily) the reserve risers are now in constant contact with a sharp piece of plastic. :/

Keep in mind this container still looks essentially brand new with the exception of the one riser flap :(


mirage62  (C 15580)

Feb 24, 2013, 2:27 PM
Post #13 of 26 (3873 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

It would seem they aren't ignoring you, but rather the two of you disagree with how the rig got in the shape it is in. (at least at this point)


chutem  (A 45827)

Feb 24, 2013, 2:42 PM
Post #14 of 26 (3843 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
however with the patch, the riser flap now blows opened as soon as I leave the plane or sometimes just while sitting down


Quote:
seems to cause my canopy to spin up, maybe due to uneven riser tension at extraction

These need to be addressed before your jump next IMO.

+1 including the plastic in contact with the reserve riser. I'm not a rigger, so take my opinion for what it's worth.


potatoman  (Student)

Feb 25, 2013, 3:55 AM
Post #15 of 26 (3669 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

50 Jumps? I would send it back. How is it ever going to last for 20years/1000's of jumps?


upndownshop  (D 23924)

Feb 25, 2013, 9:01 AM
Post #16 of 26 (3491 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike

Sorry you are having issues with the container or contacting anyone here. I joined the Aerodyne team officially in October and part of my responsibility is customer service, which includes the info@flyaerodyne.com email. I have checked with others here and filtered thru all junk folders and noone seems to be aware of this situation, not recent nor in the past.

I pride myself on customer service and I am sure there are many here on DZ that have dealt with me in the past and would confirm that it is very important to me.
Please drop me a line and lets see what we can do to take care of this.

Please email me at my direct address at j@flyaerodyne.com

Thank you
J Schrimsher


(This post was edited by upndownshop on Feb 25, 2013, 9:16 AM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 25, 2013, 9:09 AM
Post #17 of 26 (3470 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've noticed cracks forming in several other Icons as well. Nobody listens to me though.Crazy

We're listening!!! Smile

See! And, apparently, so were the good people who build the Icon. Cool


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Feb 25, 2013, 10:48 AM
Post #18 of 26 (3393 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking at the picture, I'm guessing that the plastic insert did not get the sharp corners filed down like they should have been?


FastRodriguez  (Student)

Feb 25, 2013, 11:08 AM
Post #19 of 26 (3369 views)
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Re: [upndownshop] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Im just a newbie but:

I can definitely vouch for the customer service from the guys at Aerodyne.

They replied the million emails I sent asking a bunch of questions about their rig with no delay. No question I asked was too dumb:) Specially J. that guy worked hard to keep me well informed.


I am not an expert and dont know much about skydiving, but I will recommend Aerodyne to anyone anytime because of how good they have taken care of me,

Best regards.

Gilberto


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 25, 2013, 12:34 PM
Post #20 of 26 (3312 views)
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Re: [upndownshop] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Mike

Sorry you are having issues with the container or contacting anyone here. I joined the Aerodyne team officially in October and part of my responsibility is customer service, which includes the info@flyaerodyne.com email. I have checked with others here and filtered thru all junk folders and noone seems to be aware of this situation, not recent nor in the past.

I pride myself on customer service and I am sure there are many here on DZ that have dealt with me in the past and would confirm that it is very important to me.
Please drop me a line and lets see what we can do to take care of this.

Please email me at my direct address at j@flyaerodyne.com

Thank you
J Schrimsher

J

So THAT's where ya have been! Congrats on the new gig.

Any feedback from the stuff I posted upthread?

http://www.dropzone.com/...string=icon;#4311339

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4446079#4446079


upndownshop  (D 23924)

Feb 26, 2013, 5:38 AM
Post #21 of 26 (3129 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

 
J

So THAT's where ya have been! Congrats on the new gig.

Any feedback from the stuff I posted upthread?

http://www.dropzone.com/...string=icon;#4311339

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4446079#4446079
Show much for hiding out! Wink Straight to the fire pit. LOL
I have sent the info off to engineering to let them do some investigating.
Of course there is a process that needs to be followed and that may take time. But it will get looked into. As are all the manufacturers in this industry, we are always looking for ways to improve the product. Can get tricky with that wonderful "human" element that finds ways to break it. :) Which is good, but can lead to "misinformation" when trying to determine the exact cause of any situation. Nothing new for any manufacturer.
Thats why I like the sales side of the industry Smile

Looking forward to hearing from Mike (OP) to see what can be worked out.
Thanks for the words Gilberto, greatly appreciated.
J


DivingWombat  (B License)

Feb 26, 2013, 7:28 AM
Post #22 of 26 (3032 views)
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Re: [upndownshop] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey J

Thanks for steping into this thread.
Please follow up the whole story (riser covers and hole size of the reserve flap) and let us know about the outcome. I am an owner of a brand new icon and I'd like to know whether I am affected or not.

Thanks
Mo.


dcskydive  (C 3457)

Feb 26, 2013, 5:37 PM
Post #23 of 26 (2869 views)
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Re: [upndownshop] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Mike

Sorry you are having issues with the container or contacting anyone here. I joined the Aerodyne team officially in October and part of my responsibility is customer service, which includes the info@flyaerodyne.com email. I have checked with others here and filtered thru all junk folders and noone seems to be aware of this situation, not recent nor in the past.

I pride myself on customer service and I am sure there are many here on DZ that have dealt with me in the past and would confirm that it is very important to me.
Please drop me a line and lets see what we can do to take care of this.

Please email me at my direct address at j@flyaerodyne.com

Thank you
J Schrimsher


J,

Thanks for the response and PM!

As requested, I will be forwarding you the most recent email communication I sent to Aerodyne (Back in December).

It's unfortunate that apparently no one there received my email, however I find that difficult to believe as I CC'd myself on it and received no error in the delivery to the other two addresses!

Regardless, computer issues happen and I look forward to attempting to resolve this situation with you!

I'm sorry that it had to become a public discussion, but I felt like I had exhausted all other avenues to get the attention of someone over there!

If it somehow turns out the damage was my own fault, so be it, however I really do not feel this to be the case, nor do several reputable riggers who have examined my rig first hand.

Any reply I have received so far has attempted to put the blame on me and brush the issue under the carpet and I find that quite unfair.

For example this recent message from an apparent ICON representative:

Quote:
From: Spike09
Date Sent:Feb 26, 2013, 2:49 PM
It apprears you have not really tried to contact Aerodyne. They are very serious about customer service as are we. My company builds the Icon and takes issue with your statements about the rig. Since you were in Florida, it might have been a good idea to stop by Aerodyne and the factory in Deland and discuss this issue with them. They are both located across the street from the DZ.

Actually Spike09, I have attempted to contact Aerodyne several times over the course of the past year. I am very aware that they are located in Florida which is why I once again attempted to contact them prior to traveling there. I made mention of my many attempt in the forum which you are referencing.

Quote:
We have been building the Icon for 8 years and I have never seen this type of damage from a "factory defect". I also spent years working for RWS, been in the sport for 35 plus years and have been manufacturing parachute equipment for over 25 years. You might want to give Jay at Aerodyne a call before you present this type of rant on DZ.com

Spike, I work in a manufacturing industry, one with a very strong safety and quality control culture, and I find it interesting that in 25 years in the industry you have never encountered a factory defect as simple as an unshaven edge. If you are not catching issues like this, perhaps your quality control program is deficient? I guess if you close your eyes each time a defect is brought to your attention and simply blame the customer for the damage, then yes it would be pretty easy to maintain a 100% success rate. Interesting philosophy Smile


(This post was edited by dcskydive on Feb 26, 2013, 9:15 PM)


Spike09  (D 7041)

Feb 27, 2013, 5:58 AM
Post #24 of 26 (2737 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not anAerodyne representative. We build the Icon. My point is that the people at Aerodyne take customer service very seriously as does Aero Tech. Let them work with you to resolve this. Jay is one of the finest people I know when working out a problem with a customer. We will stand behind anything we build. This is widely known in the industry.


upndownshop  (D 23924)

Feb 27, 2013, 8:52 AM
Post #25 of 26 (2666 views)
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Re: [dcskydive] Aerodyne/Icon Manufacturing Defects [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey all

Mike and I are in communication on this and things are starting to sort themselves out.
Prior to this morning I had no idea who Spike is. But when I originally read the PM's, two thoughts came to mind. 1. Nice, good to see folks passionate about what they do. 2. in reply to : "then yes it would be pretty easy to maintain a 100% success rate. Interesting philosophy". Ha, one should have been dealing with Michelin tires in the 80's and 90's, that was their attitude, meaning they claimed they do not manufacturer a defective product. Ever!

However, it may not have been the proper place for a discussion, especially since facts were still being gathered to sort this out for everyone involved so it may have been a bit premature.


Mike, I have your email and will respond next, felt I needed a quick response in here. I think we are at a point that it makes sense to put our energy sorting this out offline.

Blue skies!
J


(This post was edited by upndownshop on Feb 27, 2013, 9:04 AM)


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