Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings

 


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Feb 12, 2013, 11:31 AM
Post #1 of 24 (2166 views)
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Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings Can't Post

We've seen ski jumpers try it so it shouldn't be a surprise to see it in the water now.

The Video: http://www.youtube.com/...&v=zj743gsiuFI#!

Still pictures: http://img.gawkerassets.com/...6jvpjpg/original.jpg


The article: http://gizmodo.com/...-this-winged-wetsuit


(This post was edited by LouDiamond on Feb 12, 2013, 12:16 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 12:18 PM
Post #2 of 24 (2084 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice. Some funny comments on the video from people who don't understand freediving or simple physics. Laugh

Now they need to incorporate one of these suits into "subsurfing," although I think the drag may be too much.


Attachments: subsurf.jpg (33.3 KB)


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 2:01 PM
Post #3 of 24 (2043 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

if this subsurfing guy is neutral in the water whtat keeps him down? or he's using his fins to push down


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM
Post #4 of 24 (2023 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if this subsurfing guy is neutral in the water whtat keeps him down? or he's using his fins to push down

I answered this same Q in the Youtube comments, though with far less detail. Freedivers are not neutral in water, or more accurately they are neutral at one point only. If you go in a very deep freshwater pool and hold your breath, you will most likely float with some positive buoyancy force. If you begin diving down on this same breath, your mass will remain constant but your volume will decrease as the water pressure increases and causes your lungs, soft tissue, etc to literally shrink and your positive buoyancy to decrease. Before very long you will pass through your neutral buoyancy point, and from there you will sink (no longer needing to swim or fin), becoming increasingly negatively buoyant the deeper you go. Adding neoprene or weight will increase/decrease the depth of your neutral buoyancy point, respectively.

The diver in the video is without a doubt far below his neutral buoyancy point for all the shots.

EDIT: The subsurfing guy, on the other hand (in the pic above) is held down by the very same hydro forces he is riding. It's why his "track" appears so steep... it's closer to angle flying since he is using the forces generated to hold himself under.


(This post was edited by The111 on Feb 12, 2013, 2:21 PM)


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 4:29 PM
Post #5 of 24 (1980 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

111, theres current flowing onto subsurfing guys face it creates drag but theres no "weight" to pull him though this drag

unless he uses lead.. or propells himself with fins

i dont understand


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 4:41 PM
Post #6 of 24 (1974 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
111, theres current flowing onto subsurfing guys face it creates drag but theres no "weight" to pull him though this drag

unless he uses lead.. or propells himself with fins

i dont understand

He's riding a wave. It pushes him. There is no "current" pushing on his face. There is indeed drag from the fluid surrounding him, but there is a greater push from the wave. Dolphins have been doing this forever.


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 5:15 PM
Post #7 of 24 (1963 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

im not a surfer but if i understnd correctly the water under the board moves quite fast
and what opposes drag in surfers case is their weight on incline
here the subsurfer is just under the surface so water must be moving the same and pushing on his face
but theres no weight on incline
please explain from science point

edited: if wave is pushing then why seaweeds dont ride with waves but stay in place and just float


(This post was edited by sky12345 on Feb 12, 2013, 5:18 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 5:31 PM
Post #8 of 24 (1953 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
edited: if wave is pushing then why seaweeds dont ride with waves but stay in place and just float

A swell will pass under seaweed. A breaking wave will not. Why do you think beaches are covered in seaweed and driftwood? Go play in the ocean and figure it out. Smile


Shredex

Feb 12, 2013, 5:40 PM
Post #9 of 24 (1946 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

How many swims do I need before I can use an Apache? :P


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 5:44 PM
Post #10 of 24 (1946 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

im far from the ocean )))

i found this pic



under the surface if he's neutral Fhydro=Fgravity
but drag is not zero
water cannot both create drag AND push you to compensate for drag its perpetual motion
im confused)))
Attachments: surfboarddownwavestart.gif (3.93 KB)


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 5:52 PM
Post #11 of 24 (1933 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

Put a ball on the table. Blow on it from behind. It will roll forward, despite the fact that the static air mass in front of it is causing drag that is slowing it down. This is neither magic nor confusing.

Now try the same thing with something the exact same mass and volume as that ball, but a cube instead of a sphere. It will probably not move, and if it does it will move much slower.

A wave is a moving mass of water. If the conditions are right for a given object (meaning the size/mass/volume/shape/orientation of said object), the wave will carry the object either on top of it or inside it. Surfers and subsurfers exploit these conditions respectively to ride the top or the inside of the wave.


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:05 PM
Post #12 of 24 (1918 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

but water is NOT physically moving with the speed of wave ..say 20mph or whatever
its just the SHAPE that is moving at great speed 20mph
the water just moves up&down although in a kinda circular motion but SLOW
if u stay with the SHAPE like surfer does by staying on the slope water is moving UNDER you with great speed 20mph
its obvious by the splashing water behind the surfer
but the subsurfer in your pic is moving at 20mph relative to ground so the water which is *slowly* moving up is mostly hitting him in the face
drag at 20mph will be no joke
but he's neutral
so what force drives him?
this drives me nutz )))))))


(This post was edited by sky12345 on Feb 12, 2013, 6:06 PM)


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:13 PM
Post #13 of 24 (1911 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

ps. maybe this "subsurfer" its just a moment caught on camera? he's just diving, photog takes pic, wave passes and thats all? hwere did you ifnd this pic? is there video?


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:23 PM
Post #14 of 24 (1901 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some funny comments on the video from people who don't understand freediving or simple physics. Laugh

i think this comment is reasonable
"This is retarded. You can do the same damn thing with fins on your feet."

in air u cannot move at arbitrary angle
in water u can
in air u need wingsuit to glide better than wihtout it
in water u can move in any direction down up forward back

this is retarded indeed)))


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 6:25 PM
Post #15 of 24 (1900 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ps. maybe this "subsurfer" its just a moment caught on camera? he's just diving, photog takes pic, wave passes and thats all? hwere did you ifnd this pic? is there video?

It's not just a moment. I grew up near the ocean and bodysurfing was something everybody did. Just like regular surfing, the quality of the wave make a huge difference. In most waves, you can't get a very long ride without adding a bit of push with your arms or legs. But with a more hydrodynamic shape, and a perfect wave with a perfect break, you could go forever. It is certainly much longer than a moment, even 5-10 seconds in crappy waves is easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DXiLzkyZWQ

The experience feels much more like being pulled than it does like being pushed.


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 6:28 PM
Post #16 of 24 (1896 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Some funny comments on the video from people who don't understand freediving or simple physics. Laugh

i think this comment is reasonable
"This is retarded. You can do the same damn thing with fins on your feet."

Whether or not it's retarded is open for debate.

But you cannot do the same thing with fins on your feet. You may be able to have the same level of control (i.e. move from point A to point B), but that is like saying because I can fly my parachute 5 miles from 13,000 feet, then flying a wingsuit 5 miles from 13,000 feet is "doing the same thing." It is not.

Nobody can glide underwater as flat as that guy, without wearing a similar suit or apparatus. Finning along the same path he glides down is not even close to the same thing, anymore than me jogging next to you on a bike downhill is the same thing.


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:31 PM
Post #17 of 24 (1895 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Put a ball on the table. Blow on it from behind. It will roll forward, despite the fact that the static air mass in front of it is causing drag that is slowing it down. This is neither magic nor confusing.

air is pushing the ball because its flowing past it
ball is moving in the direction of drag not against it
to push neutral object water must be moving past it
so to push him forawrd water must be flowing from his feet to face
but water is instead flowing from his face to feet jsut like its flowing along surfers board
water cannot flow both from feet to face and face to feet


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 12, 2013, 6:36 PM
Post #18 of 24 (1887 views)
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Re: [sky12345] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but water is instead flowing from his face to feet jsut like its flowing along surfers board

This is why I suggested playing in the ocean. You will quickly realize your assumptions here are wrong. Water below the surface is doing things very different than the water ON the surface. This is part of what makes waves so cool.


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:41 PM
Post #19 of 24 (1881 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
ps. maybe this "subsurfer" its just a moment caught on camera? he's just diving, photog takes pic, wave passes and thats all? hwere did you ifnd this pic? is there video?

It's not just a moment. I grew up near the ocean and bodysurfing was something everybody did. Just like regular surfing, the quality of the wave make a huge difference. In most waves, you can't get a very long ride without adding a bit of push with your arms or legs. But with a more hydrodynamic shape, and a perfect wave with a perfect break, you could go forever. It is certainly much longer than a moment, even 5-10 seconds in crappy waves is easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DXiLzkyZWQ

The experience feels much more like being pulled than it does like being pushed.

i think i got it
he surfs only in very shallow waters
where the whole mass of water is moving at great speed horizontally
but where its deep he wont be able to do that b/c water moves just up and down slowly

basically he's just floating under water in fast river/rip current
he's NOT "tracking" )))


(This post was edited by sky12345 on Feb 12, 2013, 6:42 PM)


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 6:46 PM
Post #20 of 24 (1877 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
but water is instead flowing from his face to feet jsut like its flowing along surfers board

This is why I suggested playing in the ocean. You will quickly realize your assumptions here are wrong. Water below the surface is doing things very different than the water ON the surface. This is part of what makes waves so cool.

really? how thick is this layer of "surface water"
so u'r saying that this surface water is moving at great speed but "below surface water" is not?


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 7:05 PM
Post #21 of 24 (1865 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

ok look at this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nS_aR8XX_U

because the wave is so big and the speed is so high its easy to see whats goin on
its clear that the water under the surboard is going straight up at a slow speed of maybe 1-2mph
but waves slope is moving forward at 40mph
so water under surfboard is moving at about 40mph TIMES the slope factor (so its MORE than 40mph!!!) but only RELATIVE to it not absolutely
his boards fin is moving under water at 40mph*slopefactor
if there was subsurfer holding the boards fin he'll be moving at the same speed and experience great deal of drag but he has no apparent weight htat can drive him down the slope
so i think u cant do subsurfing on a gib wave in deep waters
only in shallow waters in rip currents
its more like floating under surface of whitewater river and pretending u'r tracking lol)))))

as for wingsuit guy i think its more like artistic experssion to get sponsors)))


sky12345

Feb 12, 2013, 7:25 PM
Post #22 of 24 (1848 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

i figured it out

obviously its SUUNTO viral advertisement
look at prominent display at 00:23

its like that BMW "The Ramp" thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjvV_MP_jCg

"human flight experience" yeah right lol))))))))))))))))))))

this wingsuit poser should wear fake front teeth like germans in "The Ramp" then itll be ffreagin' funny rotflmao!!!


(This post was edited by sky12345 on Feb 12, 2013, 7:28 PM)


piisfish

Feb 12, 2013, 11:53 PM
Post #23 of 24 (1787 views)
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Re: [The111] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's why his "track" appears so steep... it's closer to angle flying since he is using the forces generated to hold himself under.
I call it Waveonauti Smile


sky12345

Feb 13, 2013, 1:04 AM
Post #24 of 24 (1765 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Everyone wants to fly a wingsuit: Oceanwings [In reply to] Can't Post

more like balloonauti ))) since he's simply floating in the water its just water moves.. like balloon moving with the wind
to call this "closer to angle flying" is ridiculous



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