Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
R44 as a Jump Ship

 


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:17 AM
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R44 as a Jump Ship Can't Post

I don't know if anyone here also flies as R44 as a jump platform, but somewhere I remember hearing there are limitations as to the exits - something about not launching asymmetric numbers of jumpers / equal weight on the skids on exit.

Was I high on something or is this a real concern for that chopper?


Anvilbrother  (C 39168)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:25 AM
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Re: [wildcard451] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard you are not supposed to apply a negative load to the skids, they are only designed for holding the weight of the chopper on the ground. Something about bendin or damaging the mounts.


Fast  (D 28237)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:11 AM
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Re: [wildcard451] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

I have 3-4 jumps out of an R44.

It's fairly standard small helicopter stuff. Jumping up while on the skids can cause the jumper to suffer a loss of their head and or cause problems by making the helicopter swing under the rotor to the point of it hitting the stops. None of these things lead to a happy helicopter pilot.

Depending on age/condition of the helicopter much more than 4K can be an issue. I was in a chase helo(older R44) on one jump trying to follow another for outside pictures of the jumpers and the thing was shaking worse than a rabid raccoon by the time we got to jump altitude.

I have heard of lots of people using them, I think they are a reasonable heli jump platform for a small boogie/dz. Reasonably cheap to operate.

I wouldn't use them for anything other than the occasional heli jump day though. Wouldn't make a full time jump ship.

No one has ever said anything to me ever about standing on the struts being an issue. We do try to leave all at the same time or if there is a 1 way and 2 way the 2-way is split across the sides so that the balance stays reasonable (i.e. weight coming off both sides).


(This post was edited by Fast on Feb 11, 2013, 9:14 AM)


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:33 AM
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Re: [Fast] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

Lat time I jumped an R44 we had 2 on one skid, one on the other. Gave a count and all dropped off together. The pilot did warn us no jumping up (uh no shit) and no pushing off as that could rotate the chopper laterally and possibly cause a jumper to be struck by the rotor (and other issues).


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:33 AM
Post #5 of 18 (3799 views)
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Re: [Fast] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No one has ever said anything to me ever about standing on the struts being an issue. We do try to leave all at the same time or if there is a 1 way and 2 way the 2-way is split across the sides so that the balance stays reasonable (i.e. weight coming off both sides).

This is what I was talking about - not worried about standing on the strut, but if two jumpers leave from 1 side and 1 jumper from the other while launching all 3 at the same time, can this present weight/balance problems?

Just a curiosity in the name of keeping it safe.


Anvilbrother  (C 39168)

Feb 11, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Re: [Fast] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/...copters/page__st__20

Quick search- a guy in a forum talking about skydivers and the 44 said that frank(Robinson). Warned against a downward load on the struts.


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 11:53 AM
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Re: [Anvilbrother] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

I got my answer. Thanks everyone.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:09 PM
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Re: [Anvilbrother] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/...copters/page__st__20

Quick search- a guy in a forum talking about skydivers and the 44 said that frank(Robinson). Warned against a downward load on the struts.

YUP...don't do that, it's not designed for it.

I did a bunch of promo video for a school using them a few years back, I mentioned to the pilot I'd heard that could be a problem.

So... we went to the mechanic who explained and showed us how the skids were attached & why downward pressure was discouraged.

I showed him all the youtube vids of jumpers hanging off them and doing 2 & 3 way exits...he showed me pics of repairs he done on one of the R-44's in one of the vids!

Bent the shit out of the air-frame at the mounting points...not really visible during a quick look but potentially a costly repair.

I did all my exits with one foot on the skid to steady myself and just rolled out off the seat.

*Fun gig, I'd land on a fire road in the mountains north of L.A., they would land pick me up and do it again...made IIRC 6 fun solo$ one day! Cool


obelixtim  (D 84)

Feb 14, 2013, 10:52 AM
Post #9 of 18 (3452 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't know if anyone here also flies as R44 as a jump platform, but somewhere I remember hearing there are limitations as to the exits - something about not launching asymmetric numbers of jumpers / equal weight on the skids on exit.

Was I high on something or is this a real concern for that chopper?

Any chopper needs the exits to be co ordinated to some degree.

The Robinson species always struck me as being a toy helicopter...very fragile and underpowered. They scare me.

Gimmee a Jetranger, 500, Huey or Mil 8. Much more grunt.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Feb 15, 2013, 2:47 PM
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Re: [wildcard451] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a video you may like...we jump the R44 a bunch here and the pilot wanted to "train" everyone how to exit while doing a low hover. Should be a great answer to your question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ObadAA-Mc


There's some 3rd person video of it, and then I do it with the camera running, then we jump it later in the video.

Enjoy!


kuai43  (C License)

Feb 16, 2013, 2:33 AM
Post #11 of 18 (3256 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here's a video you may like...we jump the R44 a bunch here and the pilot wanted to "train" everyone how to exit while doing a low hover. Should be a great answer to your question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ObadAA-Mc


There's some 3rd person video of it, and then I do it with the camera running, then we jump it later in the video.

Enjoy!

What's all that white shit on the ground?

Nice vid for the ramp work.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 16, 2013, 3:26 AM
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

 
That looks scary as shit. The terrible place to be is with a parachute in an aircraft, too low to exit safely, and that's what that is. Sure, it's only 1 ft off the ground, but if there's a mechanical failure and that bird starts to spin or roll over, you're not getting or away from that thing anytime soon.

None of this is mentioning the massive waste of tach time hovering there while what appears to be a large group of jumpers goes through that 'exercise'. There's no reason that couldn't have been done with the helo on the ground and the pilot observing the exit coordination from outside the cabin.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Feb 16, 2013, 4:17 AM
Post #13 of 18 (3240 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here's a video you may like...we jump the R44 a bunch here and the pilot wanted to "train" everyone how to exit while doing a low hover. Should be a great answer to your question.

Great way to smash up a chopper.

Not many of the chopper jumps I've done have been done with the chopper in a hover. Most times its best to keep some forward speed on.

In Skies Call 3 there is a picture of 10 of us exiting a Llama over Taupo. Even though we all try to co ordinate the exit, the last couple going from inside the cabin find that the machine is quite unstable at that point. As I recall we had 3 out on each skid, and 4 went from inside the cabin. I think we had about 40 knots IAS.

Going out 8th the first time we jumped it, I caught the door sill in my face as I dived out.

40 ways out of the Mil 8 necessitated forward speed both to give some air to work with on exit, and to prevent traffic jams.

Of all the choppers the Robbie is one I'm reluctant to get into. When you see them in the maintenance hangar you realise just how flimsy they are...no structural integrity at all. Plus they sound like a lawnmower or sewing machine. Uncool machines.


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 16, 2013, 5:18 AM
Post #14 of 18 (3228 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

Couldn't pay me enough to get into a Robbie....


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 16, 2013, 8:32 AM
Post #15 of 18 (3195 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Couldn't pay me enough to get into a Robbie....

I never said I was getting into it...


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Feb 17, 2013, 7:54 AM
Post #16 of 18 (3130 views)
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Re: [davelepka] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

Fair enough...but when it's winter and you haven't jumped in months...when the pilot says jump, you jump. When he pilot says, I'm going to hover and make you guys practice...we hover and practice.

I think almost 30 loads went up that day and no incidents, the helicopter performed perfectly well.

It's a jump....


aeroflyer  (C License)

Sep 30, 2013, 10:09 PM
Post #17 of 18 (2079 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I did 2 jumps out of an R44 in Moab last weekend, then came across this thread today Wink

I definitely wouldn't want to practice getting out of the chopper on the ground,looked like a good way to get your head chopped off!

We were warned not to push off the chopper, rather just fall off. The pilot didn't say anything about not standing on the strut, and I stood on it both times.

The R44 seemed fine at altitude, it shook the same there as on the ground. The pilot even gave us a cool canyon tour before we went to altitude, buzzing rock formations!

Overall a good experience for me. I would do it again... it didn't seem to sketchy. Just don't catch your stuff on anything on the way out. One thing the pilot did do was remove all the doors except for his door. And he did not have a parachute!


(This post was edited by aeroflyer on Sep 30, 2013, 10:13 PM)
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evan85  (C 41367)

Oct 1, 2013, 10:18 AM
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Re: [aeroflyer] R44 as a Jump Ship [In reply to] Can't Post

aeroflyer wrote:
Well, I did 2 jumps out of an R44 in Moab last weekend, then came across this thread today Wink

I definitely wouldn't want to practice getting out of the chopper on the ground,looked like a good way to get your head chopped off!

We were warned not to push off the chopper, rather just fall off. The pilot didn't say anything about not standing on the strut, and I stood on it both times.

The R44 seemed fine at altitude, it shook the same there as on the ground. The pilot even gave us a cool canyon tour before we went to altitude, buzzing rock formations!

Overall a good experience for me. I would do it again... it didn't seem to sketchy. Just don't catch your stuff on anything on the way out. One thing the pilot did do was remove all the doors except for his door. And he did not have a parachute!

I also jumped the R44 in Moab, it was great! The pilot did keep some forward speed -- he told us he'd try to get it below 30 before we jumped. We were instructed to stand on the strut before exiting, to fall off rather than push the strut, and that we were not permitted to hang. Didn't seem sketchy to me, although I had not previously done a heli jump.



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