Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012

 

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Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Feb 11, 2013, 7:38 AM
Post #1 of 283 (8952 views)
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Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 Can't Post

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/...0/skydiver-accident/


This news article is pretty light in actual details but there are a lot of lessons to be be learned on this.


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Feb 11, 2013, 7:54 AM)


turkeyphant  (B 111016)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:22 AM
Post #2 of 283 (8834 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Handcam on his 30th jump?!


Divalent  (C 40494)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:30 AM
Post #3 of 283 (8809 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

It might be interesting to see the actual FAA incident report that they quote in the article. Unfortunately, there is not link to it on their web site. Anyone have a link or copy of it?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:43 AM
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Re: [Divalent] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

My knee jerk, first reaction:
An accident looking for a place to happen.

I find it implausible to blame it on the velcro. I'm more inclined to say loose pin/closing loop too long and leg straps too tight.

I do find it hard to believe that there nobody was aware of what he was doing...and said/did nothing.


normiss  (D 28356)

Feb 11, 2013, 8:58 AM
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Re: [turkeyphant] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

"It happened on Gerardo Flores 30th jump.Flores felt confident after two years of training"

Impressive currency for flying video as well.

Unsure


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 11, 2013, 9:04 AM
Post #6 of 283 (8715 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

30 jumps, cleared for solo, handicam??

Totally responsible for his own gear checks IMO. Regardless of the state of the velcro, I blame this jumper 100% for their situation.

Sensationalist journalism, perpetuated by the individual in question's inability to take responsibility for their own life and actions.

Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Feb 11, 2013, 9:04 AM)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:10 AM
Post #7 of 283 (8691 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I find it implausible to blame it on the velcro. I'm more inclined to say loose pin/closing loop too long and leg straps too tight.

Could you elaborate on how the fit of leg straps could increase/decrease chances of a premature deployment? I haven't heard of that, so I'm curious


Southern_Man  (C License)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:19 AM
Post #8 of 283 (8663 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I find it implausible to blame it on the velcro. I'm more inclined to say loose pin/closing loop too long and leg straps too tight.

Could you elaborate on how the fit of leg straps could increase/decrease chances of a premature deployment? I haven't heard of that, so I'm curious

I think that is what caused him to pass out under canopy. Nothing to do w/ the premature.


BenediktDE

Feb 11, 2013, 9:28 AM
Post #9 of 283 (8641 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

30 jumps in 2 years and feeling confident enough to backfly when his intentions were to train tracking (very likely belly tracking at that low experience). Taking a camera when instructed not to do so and selling his story to the press.

Sounds a bit like Lutz 2.0 to me.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:41 AM
Post #10 of 283 (8613 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

i looked at the video.
right away he was in a sliding turn...going around his left hand..

So then, if he's real busy at the door fussing with the Go Pro...could it Be that he failed to do a quick PC check??
to make SURE the fabric was stowed and the handle was seated...?

I mention this, because as he's spinning with the bottom corner of his container dragging through the Air...it seems damn likely that the PC could have come unstowed, IF it WAS partially exposed.

Bang!!! now you have a deploying main...It Looked like one toggle was flying around and he SHOULD have grabbed it... but other than That... What's the big deal?????right?? Simpy get the canopy Under Control and locate the DZ.

Must be that his "extensive training" somewhere, told him it's bad to "open above 6 grand"

Well....opinions vary

It seems like he ran the situation INTO his own personal emergency..
He might do well, to STAY on the ground....imho


hookitt  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:55 AM
Post #11 of 283 (8583 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to see the actual report of the gear. I don't really believe that had anything to do with the premee.

By watching the video, The pilot chute escaped immediately after rolling to his back. If the "Worn Velcro" was a problem, and the pin came out of the loop, the bag would have deployed first instead. It would have been a horeshoe if the PC stayed in the pouch.

He's not a petite man. It doesn't surprise me he passed out after a hard opening and then failing to reconfigure the leg straps to a more comfortable configuration.

What the heck is a knot in the rigging?

This article and newscast is very incomplete and likely out of context. I believe Gerardo Flores is a tool for believing it was not his own fault for allowing his pilot chute to escape.

Look in the safety and training section at the thread "Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO)". How much would you bet, that's what he allowed to happen and the pilot chute escaped the moment he rolled over?


billeisele  (A 5643)

Feb 11, 2013, 9:58 AM
Post #12 of 283 (8577 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Class A bozo - I apologize to the original Bozo the Clown, he was talented and funny

it seems that he still doesn't realize that everything that happened could have been either prevented or managed - by him


Iago  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 10:16 AM
Post #13 of 283 (8532 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm missing something here. What velcro are they talking about?

It looked to me like he had a premature on his pilot chute, probably knocked partly out of the pouch in the plane. No hackey check prior to exit?

Plus a handcam.

Plus being too busy talking to his camera to deal with the tension knot on the left side.

Plus having a canopy failing control checks.


But the real problem is a lack of oversight. This is why I don't talk about skydiving much with my non-jumper friends and I never discuss incidents. You need a good knowledge of equipment and procedures to understand what is going on.


airdvr  (D 10977)

Feb 11, 2013, 11:17 AM
Post #14 of 283 (8420 views)
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Re: [Iago] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Where is the video?


Iago  (D License)

Feb 11, 2013, 11:29 AM
Post #15 of 283 (8390 views)
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Re: [airdvr] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Where is the video?

Embedded in the article.


Bluhdow  (B 37052)

Feb 11, 2013, 11:44 AM
Post #16 of 283 (8361 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please nobody let this guy jump at your dropzone ever again.

His incompetence is of the variety that generates more regulation, more warning labels, more lawsuits, and more scrutiny.

He shouldn't even be allowed to bowl.


MakeItHappen

Feb 11, 2013, 11:45 AM
Post #17 of 283 (8356 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone know when this occurred?

.


mirage62  (C 15580)

Feb 11, 2013, 11:50 AM
Post #18 of 283 (8336 views)
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Re: [Iago] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

These reports are so damaging to our sport, worse yet when the dz responded you can bet that the TV folks won't put that on the air.

Certainly he's done skydiving.....


OuttaBounZ

Feb 11, 2013, 12:11 PM
Post #19 of 283 (8292 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Two more GoPros and he'd be ready for bridge day!


4WayXena  (D 24515)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:18 PM
Post #20 of 283 (8278 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really pretty peaceful about a lot of things but this article just hit me the wrong way. I'm pretty friggin' pissed about the crummy reporting and the airtime given to this guy.

If you're peeved at the crummy portrayal of the sport on this particular TV station, please write to the station editor at KPIX. His name is Dan Rosenheim and his email address is rosenheim@kpix.cbs.com

I've already sent a calmly worded, cogent email poking holes in the story and where the reporter failed in his duty to check his facts. I encourage others to do the same rather than complain about it on this forum. The press won't change their stripes about skydiving until we help them understand we don't just "leap into the ether, slapping Death in the face repeatedly while whistling Dixie and pulling the string at 50' because we're crazy daredevils."

Let them know this kind of shoddy reporting does not go unnoticed.


BigMikeH77  (B 39490)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:19 PM
Post #21 of 283 (8257 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

This bothers me. The first thing I noticed was that the article was quick to point out that ours is a self regulated sport as though it's a bad thing.

Secondly, it struck me as odd that the jumper had accumulated 30 jumps over a two year period, and that the author of the article seems to want to impress upon his readers that this makes him an experienced jumper. The way I look at it, the guy has just about as many jumps as I. (That's okay, go ahead and look to the left. I have TWO.)

And after reading through the (yes, sensationalist) article, it struck me that not only is this (former) jumper dodging his own responsibility for the incident, he is most likely going to sue the DZ.

It sounds to me like this dude wants to go back on all the waivers and on the understanding that we are responsible for not only our own lives but, when stupid things like this are done, for the lives of every jumper on the load. He said he was going to do one thing but instead did another - and when things went sour he couldn't handle it... Not while under canopy, and not on the ground afterwards.

I agree that this guy's jumping days are over. If I ran a DZ I wouldn't let him in the parking lot even if he had a binder full of waivers.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 11, 2013, 12:19 PM
Post #22 of 283 (8256 views)
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Re: [4WayXena] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure I agree here. Letting the DZ handle it is probably best. People sending emails, regardless of the good intentions, are more likely to stir up a hornets nest, be rude, or generally paint us in a worse light (not saying you did, just making a generalization)


alphamedak  (D 31708)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #23 of 283 (8254 views)
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Re: [turkeyphant] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

His YouTube page shows him jumping a hand held camera at jump #16.


BigMikeH77  (B 39490)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:28 PM
Post #24 of 283 (8221 views)
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Re: [4WayXena] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

The article said that he landed "20 minutes later". Is that even possible? I opened at 10,000 on my first jump (long story...lol) and it didn't take nearly that long.


4WayXena  (D 24515)

Feb 11, 2013, 12:35 PM
Post #25 of 283 (8194 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Injury - Monterey Bay, CA - 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

 
The DZ sent a fantastic statement, which is only posted on the text section of the story, which is well written, smart and provides their side of the story. It is not just ass covering.

I suggested to the station that they take the time, when there isn't a sensationalistic story involved, to do a story about what it really takes to become an A licensed skydiver.

Also that they should consider retracting the statements that skydiving is an unregulated sport.

Essentially, I believe what I've said to the station is akin to sowing wheat on a mall parking lot and hoping for a bumper crop.

Then again, if we keep it civilized, why can't we be heard?


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