Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO)

 


jesseweyher  (B License)

Feb 5, 2013, 7:55 AM
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Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) Can't Post

I took this video last weekend at Deland. I was looking down check out my handles so I didn't notice his...by the time someone saw him it was too late. Apparently he made it to the ground safely and did not even know until I told him about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9M0NCNwtRI


peek  (D 8884)

Feb 5, 2013, 8:51 AM
Post #2 of 19 (4169 views)
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Re: [jesseweyher] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I took this video last weekend at Deland. I was looking down check out my handles so I didn't notice his...by the time someone saw him it was too late. Apparently he made it to the ground safely and did not even know until I told him about it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9M0NCNwtRI

I'm glad you posted that. Many rigs are now considered "freefly friendly" and the like, and provide excellent protection against parts of your deployment system being exposed.

Even so, I think we all need to instill in everyone a sufficient sense of fear and paranoia that their pilot chutes and bridles might be exposed and that they need to continually check them, at least until they get in the door.

I just don't think that it is reasonable to accept that someone is going to be yanked off a plane once in a while due to something being premature. I think it can almost always be prevented.


topdocker  (D 12018)

Feb 5, 2013, 11:25 AM
Post #3 of 19 (4030 views)
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Re: [peek] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I took this video last weekend at Deland. I was looking down check out my handles so I didn't notice his...by the time someone saw him it was too late. Apparently he made it to the ground safely and did not even know until I told him about it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9M0NCNwtRI

I'm glad you posted that. Many rigs are now considered "freefly friendly" and the like, and provide excellent protection against parts of your deployment system being exposed.

Even so, I think we all need to instill in everyone a sufficient sense of fear and paranoia that their pilot chutes and bridles might be exposed and that they need to continually check them, at least until they get in the door.

I just don't think that it is reasonable to accept that someone is going to be yanked off a plane once in a while due to something being premature. I think it can almost always be prevented.

Can you imagine the video if that guy had gone out and rear-floated!!?? Would have been much more exciting!

Interestingly, he didn't get a premature deployment on it since he didn't even know about it until the OP informed him.

top


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Feb 5, 2013, 3:22 PM
Post #4 of 19 (3910 views)
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Re: [topdocker] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like a student, if so bad job on the instructor for not doing a better gear check!


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Feb 5, 2013, 4:30 PM
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Re: [jesseweyher] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

"Get the fuck out of the plane."

Good to see our fellow jumpers checking the spot and for traffic and not at all being encouraged to exit when the green light comes on.


J-S  (C License)

Feb 5, 2013, 4:37 PM
Post #6 of 19 (3840 views)
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Re: [jesseweyher] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

That's why I always try to make a point to give a visual check of the jumpers exiting before me pilot chutes, then feel mine one last time before I exit. (since I saw the video of that guys premature that got hung up on the tail)


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 5, 2013, 11:56 PM
Post #7 of 19 (3689 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Get the fuck out of the plane."

Good to see our fellow jumpers checking the spot and for traffic and not at all being encouraged to exit when the green light comes on.

Seriously. I'm ok with "greenlight"... but a dozen people yelling "get out" within half a second of the light coming on is moronic.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 6, 2013, 5:01 AM
Post #8 of 19 (3606 views)
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Re: [J-S] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

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That's why I always try to make a point to give a visual check of the jumpers exiting before me pilot chutes, then feel mine one last time before I exit.

There are a number of failures in that video.

One would be the lack of attention to gear checks of those around you. Never ever put your hands on someone else's gear unless they ask, always do a visual check of other rigs around you in the plane. A visual check would have easily revealed this problem.

Side note to the above: It was neat that the jumper sitting immediately next to the jumper with the PC problem was able to focus his attention on his GoPro and having his buddy check that it was on, but was blind to the PC hanging out 6 inches away from him.

Moving on, and now under the assumption that the first two jumpers out were students/unlicensed/low timers (based on the rigs/jumpsuits). Given that -

When the first group out is a two way, and they're both clearly low timers or new to the DZ, why is nobody checking the spot for them (or just backing them up)?

Along those same lines, if these are students or newly licensed jumpers, why haven't they been taught to ask for pin/PC checks in the plane before exit?

The video is a great illustration of a bunch of jumpers sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for the pilot to tell them to jump. It's a sad picture of complacency, and a problem in more than just Deland.

If you sit around and 'wait' for things in skydiving, sooner or later, the 'thing' that comes to you is going to be a huge pile of shit hitting a fan right in front of you. Don't sit like a bump on a log a wait for the green light, be on the ball, with gear checks (your and others) in the bag, the spot and traffic checked, and you should be watching the spot slide under the plane and know the light is coming on before the pilot even throws the switch.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Feb 6, 2013, 6:21 AM
Post #9 of 19 (3548 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
, but was blind to the PC hanging out 6 inches away from him.

In fairness to the guy, he was kneeling facing forward, away from the guy with the hanging PC and had no view him until the last moment before exit, when he turned his head more towards the exiting jumpers.

Whether or not a gopro is a distraction, he was legitimately preparing his own gear on jumprun.

As for the pair who exited, looking at it more closely I get the feel that it was more of a coach + novice interaction. It wasn't "let's do a 2 way dude" but was "I'll set up on the camera step, filming with my gopro, while you show me a dive exit". Despite the non-customized RW suits, the cam step jumper had a moderate sized rig and the diver a big fat rig.

A coach with a licenced jumper won't be as responsible for the other's safety as an instructor with a student, but it would set a much better example to give a damn about the other person you are jumping with...especially when the safety of one person's rig can affect the safety of everyone else.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 6, 2013, 6:28 AM
Post #10 of 19 (3538 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In fairness to the guy, he was kneeling facing forward, away from the guy with the hanging PC and had no view him until the last moment before exit, when he turned his head more towards the exiting jumpers.

Whether or not a gopro is a distraction, he was legitimately preparing his own gear on jumprun

It's a long ride up, and nobody is packed in there so tightly that you can't turn around see what's behind you. Let's say the PC came out and hung the main over the tail, do you suggest the jumper with the GoPro continue to face forward and pretend there's nothing behind him?

Again, don't sit and wait for things to happen to you. You have enough jumps to rock a GoPro? Good for you, get off your ass and square your gear up early so you have time to scan the rigs around you.

Quote:
A coach with a licenced jumper won't be as responsible for the other's safety as an instructor with a student,

We're all responsible for each other to a degree, and especially when it comes to safety in/around the aircraft. Pins, PCs and handles can all effect the safety of an aircraft in flight, and therefore are everyone's problem.

The issue isn't about what you have to do, down the 'letter of the law', it's about what you should do, in the spirit of being better than the minimum requirements.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Feb 6, 2013, 6:29 AM)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Feb 6, 2013, 6:33 AM
Post #11 of 19 (3532 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The issue isn't about what you have to do, down the 'letter of the law', it's about what you should do, in the spirit of being better than the minimum requirements.

Yes indeed, that's why my last line mentioned how the safety of one person's rig can affect everyone aboard.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Feb 6, 2013, 6:45 AM
Post #12 of 19 (3518 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to know if the two were on an instructional/Coach jump. If it was a coach and a student, one of the three gear checks the Coach is supposed to do with a student should have caught the PC hanging out.


jesseweyher  (B License)

Feb 6, 2013, 7:09 AM
Post #13 of 19 (3497 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'd like to know if the two were on an instructional/Coach jump. If it was a coach and a student, one of the three gear checks the Coach is supposed to do with a student should have caught the PC hanging out.

They were two colombian guys on vacation. They were both renting gear. I'm not sure on their experience level. They barely spoke english, and Im only a novice spanish speaker. The only thing I got was that jumps in colombia were $40, they were here on vacation and they were working on belly relativity.
I agree that we all should have been checking eachother's shit. I come from a c182 dropzone where we are packed in there like sardines and I always eye everyone's gear and ask them to do the same for me. I was napping most of the way up to altitude on this one and the other guy with the gopro seemed to just not have seen it until the very last second. He was probably spacing out.
As for the colombians being novices and being "pressured" to jump out...no one's got a gun to their head and they probably didn't even know what "get the fuck out" meant either. I was new to Deland so I'm in no position to be organizing the loads. The big man on campus at Deland shoulda been there to recognize that these guys were novices and shoulda been helping them out.
I'm glad these guys are ok.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Feb 6, 2013, 1:53 PM
Post #14 of 19 (3280 views)
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Re: [jesseweyher] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

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The big man on campus at Deland shoulda been there to recognize that these guys were novices and shoulda been helping them out.

There ya go folks - And this quote right here (and this MENTALITY) is exactly what gets everyone (potentially) in trouble, and really (still) frightens me about this video, and its now still on-going posting dialogue.

Dave Lepka has hit it on this one (as he oft does) right on the head. But instead of CONSIDERING, and LEARNING - we have the "it was not me / not my place" tacit response.

Not trying to pick on you Jesse - obviously, you're new. And your posting this video is both helpful and appreciated. Now that you have though - and presuming you did it to elicit a (potential) learning experience, not only just for yourself but for others too... please - do just that.

Stop. Listen. ...and LEARN!

Being dismissive as "it was not my place" - and/or it should have been somebody else's is exactly what we are saying is "allows" these sorts of things to "just happen" otherwise, in the 1st place. You don't need 500 jumps and an uber-shit-load of experience at that dropzone to even at least speak up and say something like "Shouldn't somebody be helping these guys?" - Rather than just sitting by and "allowing" just "whatever" ... to just blithely go on, all around you.


jesseweyher  (B License)

Feb 6, 2013, 2:12 PM
Post #15 of 19 (3254 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not trying to put the blame on someone else. Maybe I should have chosen my words more wisely. What I was trying to say is that because it was our first time at Deland, we had no idea who those guys were and if they were local/experienced or not you know? I talked to them and investigated as much as I could after I watched the video. I would have grabbed that dude about his pilot chute had I seen it in the plane. I always look out for my friends and strangers and treat them equally regarding safety. Again, not trying to blame it on anybody else, BUT...if the head load organizer dude at the DZ has never seen someone before and they are the first ones out the door, don't you think it's their responsibility to make sure everything is cool with them? AGAIN, had I seen that pilot chute mess while they were in the door I would have grabbed that guy.


jrouse  (B 38781)

Feb 27, 2013, 9:08 PM
Post #16 of 19 (2331 views)
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Re: [J-S] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That's why I always try to make a point to give a visual check of the jumpers exiting before me pilot chutes, then feel mine one last time before I exit. (since I saw the video of that guys premature that got hung up on the tail)

Dude can you post that video?


J-S  (C License)

Feb 28, 2013, 7:34 AM
Post #17 of 19 (2161 views)
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Re: [jrouse] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
That's why I always try to make a point to give a visual check of the jumpers exiting before me pilot chutes, then feel mine one last time before I exit. (since I saw the video of that guys premature that got hung up on the tail)

Dude can you post that video?

http://iloveskydiving.org/...tches-on-plane-tail/

http://www.youtube.com/...EyBLs9fdc&sns=em


Be safe up there!


(This post was edited by J-S on Feb 28, 2013, 7:41 AM)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Feb 28, 2013, 7:55 AM
Post #18 of 19 (2141 views)
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Re: [J-S] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
That's why I always try to make a point to give a visual check of the jumpers exiting before me pilot chutes, then feel mine one last time before I exit. (since I saw the video of that guys premature that got hung up on the tail)

Dude can you post that video?

http://iloveskydiving.org/...tches-on-plane-tail/

http://www.youtube.com/...EyBLs9fdc&sns=em


Be safe up there!

You can still see the hackey in it's pocket when the main is deploying... This was a pulled/dislodged closing pin. http://www.youtube.com/...p;v=mbEyBLs9fdc#t=7s Look at the rig at the 7s mark. It's already open with the side flaps flapping around and the dude is still in the plane.


(This post was edited by Remster on Feb 28, 2013, 7:56 AM)


Scrumpot  (D License)

Mar 1, 2013, 10:11 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1980 views)
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Re: [Remster] Dude's Pilot Chute Hanging Out (VIDEO) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Look at the rig at the 7s mark. It's already open with the side flaps flapping around and the dude is still in the plane.

Yes, and with everyone else behind him in the plane also yelling "go-go-go-go"! Crazy

Freeze frame also at 12sec shows clearly, the hacky still SECURELY and fully in place, whilst the bag - now exposed to the exterior windstream - only then, and with the hacky still in BOC - launching.

Yelling "go-go-go" there in that situation, especially if the person who was doing that was seeing his main closing flaps appearing open (but nothing - especially PC clearly out) was probably the worst thing they could have done, and everyone there on that load was extremely "lucky" indeed.

[edit to add] THIS IS NOT THE VIDEO I THINK SOMEONE WAS LOOKING FOR, OF THE PILOT CHUTE HANGING OUT - that we are now commenting on.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Mar 1, 2013, 10:13 AM)



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