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Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend?

 

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Poll: Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend?
Yes, of course I did, it's what Aitec says to do 33 / 43%
I did it a few times but not every jump 5 / 7%
No, it's all marketing nonsense, it works or it doesn't 4 / 5%
No, I don't have a Cypres 29 / 38%
What? I have to check my Cypres? I thought A meant automatic 5 / 7%
76 total votes
 
mpreil  (D 17822)

Feb 3, 2013, 11:17 PM
Post #1 of 28 (2807 views)
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Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? Can't Post

Since my reserve was repacked on Feb. 1, I have the dubious distinction of being one of the first people whose reserve data card says, in big red letters, "Cypres affected by service bulletin C20113, read and follow". So I did check it before each jump.

But I think the bulletin is useless. If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? And what are you supposed to do if it fails? The marketing guys who wrote the bulletin did not say "Don't jump" (read it carefully - it's a masterpiece of corporate fluff pretending to be a technical bulletin). But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable risk?

I don't care if it doesn't fire - it's only a backup. But firing when it is not supposed to should be cause for immediate grounding, which Airtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet. My bet - in a few months they will recall all units. And they'll do it a lot faster if a Cypres takes down an airplane.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

Feb 3, 2013, 11:27 PM
Post #2 of 28 (2768 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

checked it before every jump, away from any carpeted areas


potatoman  (Student)

Feb 4, 2013, 12:10 AM
Post #3 of 28 (2734 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Feb 4, 2013, 12:45 AM
Post #4 of 28 (2708 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Airtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet.

Over 20,000 would be needed...


piisfish

Feb 4, 2013, 12:57 AM
Post #5 of 28 (2692 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

I did, on around 10 rigs I was inspecting and repacking teh reserves


nigel99  (D 1)

Feb 4, 2013, 1:18 AM
Post #6 of 28 (2678 views)
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Re: [potatoman] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?

you say you check, but do you press the button to make sure it is still responding, or do you simply look at the display?

I jump a Vigil and check the display after every jump - I don't press the button to verify that it hasnt turmed into a brick though.At this point I don't intend to change my procedures for my gear.


potatoman  (Student)

Feb 4, 2013, 1:25 AM
Post #7 of 28 (2668 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, nobody ever mentioned to check by pushing the button, just check the display. Untill now, also won't be changing my normal method.

When I take my gear off before packing, I do my toggles, and check what my speed/ff time was. Sure if it stopped functioning that feature would also be disbaled. Abviously also a vigil, and I would have had 1 jump of non-function, but at least not a whole day.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 4, 2013, 3:47 AM
Post #8 of 28 (2583 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And what are you supposed to do if it fails?
Turn it off.

In reply to:
But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink,
In reply to:
Is that true? Where did you get that info. It's not in the bulletin that I can see.

Speaking of which...Aerodyne has not yet added that bulletin to heir website.


I don't care if it doesn't fire - it's only a backup. But firing when it is not supposed to should be cause for immediate grounding, which Airtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet. My bet - in a few months they will recall all units. And they'll do it a lot faster if a Cypres takes down an airplane.


FlyBear

Feb 4, 2013, 3:49 AM
Post #9 of 28 (2577 views)
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Re: [potatoman] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function.


pattersd  (D License)

Feb 4, 2013, 6:03 AM
Post #10 of 28 (2461 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

You might want to put some thought into the idea of how do you turn it off if the light doesn't blink. think about the process used to turn it off, how do you do that with no light?


piisfish

Feb 4, 2013, 6:30 AM
Post #11 of 28 (2415 views)
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Re: [FlyBear] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Didn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function.
I had in my hands one of the "frozen" CyPReS. It wouldn't do anything but remain "apparently" ON


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 4, 2013, 8:30 AM
Post #12 of 28 (2292 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

> If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing?

It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing.

>And what are you supposed to do if it fails?

Don't jump it.

> But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an
>unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable
>risk?

Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 4, 2013, 9:34 AM
Post #13 of 28 (2250 views)
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Re: [billvon] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

...as the local rigger told me in the loft yesterday ~

"Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!" Sly


iambeav2  (D 29842)

Feb 4, 2013, 9:59 AM
Post #14 of 28 (2219 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am the rigger for my DZ, and made sure everybody knew about this prior too, and for the Sigma's we have the have Cypres II's instead of Vigil's, everyone checked (and regardless of whether they did or not, I walked to each rig between jumps and did it anyway). It's 1 button press, what's it hurt.


Southern_Man  (C License)

Feb 4, 2013, 10:28 AM
Post #15 of 28 (2178 views)
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Re: [iambeav2] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Saturday I checked as I packed. It was very slow and I am not sure I will have time to continue to do that if we are busier, especially for experienced jumpers.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Feb 4, 2013, 11:14 AM
Post #16 of 28 (2115 views)
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Re: [mpreil] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't... ...as I was not skydiving TongueTongueTongue

I intend to do so but hey, if I happen to forget... at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it and I "only" have to take care of silver entirely myself. Yeah I know, irresponsible attitude, just being obnoxious, will really try to put it into my pre-jump gear check every time. Angelic


airdvr  (D 10977)

Feb 4, 2013, 11:25 AM
Post #17 of 28 (2102 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it

How can you be sure? No matter how much things change they remain the same. Took forever for AAD's to gain acceptance, and only then when marketing convinced people it was failsafe. In reality it never has been failsafe and now we're back to the late 70's/early 80's where the operation of the device is again called into question. Unsure


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Feb 4, 2013, 11:47 AM
Post #18 of 28 (2075 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it

REALLY????

Direct quote from last week's Cypres2 SB:

"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. "


labrys  (D 29848)

Feb 4, 2013, 2:41 PM
Post #19 of 28 (1964 views)
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. "

It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None?

Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this?


ErleGardner

Feb 4, 2013, 3:49 PM
Post #20 of 28 (1921 views)
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Re: [potatoman] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?

Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads?


(This post was edited by ErleGardner on Feb 4, 2013, 3:54 PM)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:01 PM
Post #21 of 28 (1849 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
"Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!"

Vigil AADs have a great cutter, too. If they didn't forget to put it in at the factory! Tongue


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:22 PM
Post #22 of 28 (1832 views)
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Re: [ErleGardner] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?

Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads?

I make every effort to check my gear before donning it, including pulling on both ends of the reserve ripcord to check for foreign objects in the housing, my Vigil and everything else that is within my capabilities.

Of the 360 jumps I made last year I'd wager I only failed in that task about 20 times. Which is when I ask someone I trust for a pin check.

It's my life and the responsibilty for preserving it rests entirely on my shoulders.

Please know and check your gear people.


Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
.


nigel99  (D 1)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:44 PM
Post #23 of 28 (1819 views)
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Re: [labrys] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. "

It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None?

Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this?

Well there has been at least one 'unexplained' CYPRES fire - it is in their own service bulletin!

It is also a stretch for them to claim the problem happened AFTER it was placed on the packing mat. The truth is that it FIRED on the packing mat, nobody knows when it became unstable.


nigel99  (D 1)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #24 of 28 (1812 views)
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Re: [billvon] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
> If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing?

It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing.

>And what are you supposed to do if it fails?

Don't jump it.

> But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an
>unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable
>risk?

Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO.

Isn't that a huge leap? The fact is that the problem is FOUND on the packing mat. Who really checks an AAD at other times? I don't believe many(any?) people are pressing CYPRES buttons on jump run.


DavieCrockett

Feb 4, 2013, 6:42 PM
Post #25 of 28 (1785 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] Be honest: Who really checked their Cypres2 before every jump this weekend? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?

Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads?

I make every effort to check my gear before donning it... everything else that is within my capabilities.

Right. That's why we only check half our gear, because much of it is beyond the capability of field testing, and impractical to do if you want to make more than one jump per month.


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