Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway

 

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rbignon  (D 237927)

Jan 30, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway Can't Post

Has anyone thought of or successfully eliminated the arm wing cutaway on a phoenix fly suit. They now offer them without them as an option but i would like to remove mine. I image the easiest solution is to just cut the yellow cable at the ends of the suit but i was wondering if there is a better option. Flipping the tab inward so it Velcro's onto the inside of the arm wing seems like it might be uncomfortable.


Bluhdow  (B 37052)

Jan 30, 2013, 11:17 AM
Post #2 of 26 (2430 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

Why?

I personally don't love the cutaway system...I think it's definitely slower than going straight for the zips. But in the case of a stuck zipper I'd be very happy to have it.

I'd only be comfortable without the cutaway on a suit with a escape sleeve type of feature.


rbignon  (D 237927)

Jan 30, 2013, 11:27 AM
Post #3 of 26 (2414 views)
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Re: [Bluhdow] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

i tent to back fly a lot with this suit and over the weekend there where several instances where some flyers coming in to dock where sort of grabbing whatever they could so it got me thinking that someone could very easily cut my arm away for me accidentally.

In the event of a stuck zipper i would do the same you would do on any of the other brands that do not have. I have had this happen before and usually i can still get to my toggle and land.
I can reach My risers in the event of a possible collision without unzipping,


lurch  (D 27583)

Jan 30, 2013, 12:11 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2386 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd suggest just leaving it alone. May come in handy when you least expect it.
My old S-6 had it. Over the years I never used it.
Then one day I went to unzip and the tab broke off the zipper leaving the zipper lock intact. Surprise!

Due to neglect the cables were chafed badly. Went to cutaway and couldn't. Spent a minute under canopy alternating between steering and trying to undo the zipper by pinching it. Wasn't gonna happen. Running out of time fast I went back to the cutaway, folded myself in half for leverage, got both hands on the cable and tore that sucker out freeing my left arm just before I entered the pattern.

Landed fine. Made mental note not to ever neglect the minor maintenance bits again. They ain't so minor when they don't work right when you need em.

Last thing you want is to have that happen to you and discover that you have NO options because you deliberately disabled it. The whole time I was thinking great, I'm gonna break a leg landing because I was too dumb to notice the cables were chewed up from years of use.

Just tell your compadres not to dock on your handles. If you're worried about THAT you should be twice as worried about them docking on your MAIN handle. If they are doing it so sloppy and rushed that they can't avoid grabbing your chop handles they ain't precise and careful enough to be doing it that way and should work on slow and deliberate hand docks. Slow it down and learn it right.
-B


Shredex

Jan 30, 2013, 4:07 PM
Post #5 of 26 (2307 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say save for a new suit! One with escape sleeves!


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jan 30, 2013, 5:08 PM
Post #6 of 26 (2285 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

We dont recommend jumping without a cutaway, but from the basejumping community, there where some requests for having the suit made without it cutaway. So on the new orderforms and colordesigner (and 2 new suitsWink) Phoenix-Fly will soon debut, its an option.

In general, Id recommend having one, for the reasons people mention above here. Id leave it on.

For anyone ordering a suit from Phoenix-Fly, they are made with a cutaway standard. As a company, we for sure wouldnt dare phase out the cutaway. Its far to important to have a safety feature on the suit that works regardless of clothing worn/temperature/build/fit.
The stretching sleeve Robert created for the Venom will be discontinued for that reason. Regardless of construction, clothing worn is too big a factor in consistant performance during emergencies.

Cutaways work...if you ever need it...you'll be happy you have it...


(This post was edited by mccordia on Jan 30, 2013, 5:12 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Jan 31, 2013, 1:20 AM
Post #7 of 26 (2187 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

An accidental arm cutaway in freefall is a much less significant problem than an absent cutaway when you need it.


DontfallOff  (Student)

Jan 31, 2013, 4:17 AM
Post #8 of 26 (2155 views)
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Re: [The111] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had a couple of blown zips - over shoulder, armwing zips etc, and while it can be a bit weird to fly compensating for it, it doesn't really affect the way it flies. Its irritating, but its not gonna kill you.

I've never had an armwing cutaway release, but since it follows the same line as an armwing release, I'm assuming it would fly about the same.

I have also had zippers jam on several occasions because they caught baggy clothes under my WS (or because thats what zippers do sometimes); and each of those times I was glad to have had the cutaways as standard.

They made fixing the jammed zipper something I could worry about on the ground, instead of when I have a bunch of mates in the air around me trying to get close enough to film my struggles on their GoPro (and I appreciate their good efforts - how else are we going to be able to stop it happening from someone else?).


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 31, 2013, 6:05 AM
Post #9 of 26 (2114 views)
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Re: [The111] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An accidental arm cutaway in freefall is a much less significant problem than an absent cutaway when you need it.

It is quite possible that a Wingsuiter has exited the plane without doing up up their arm wings. It's no big thang.


(This post was edited by WickedWingsuits on Jan 31, 2013, 6:06 AM)


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jan 31, 2013, 9:26 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2038 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It is quite possible that a Wingsuiter has exited the plane without doing up up their arm wings. It's no big thang.

Sadly happened outside frame, but remember Zach last year exiting without arm wings zipped, seeing him do them up while diving to a formation. Thats a great showcase of skill or a great showcase of stupidity depending on how you look at it. For me it was just pissing my pants watching itTongue


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Feb 1, 2013, 12:53 PM
Post #11 of 26 (1897 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Has anyone thought of or successfully eliminated the arm wing cutaway on a phoenix fly suit. They now offer them without them as an option but i would like to remove mine. I image the easiest solution is to just cut the yellow cable at the ends of the suit but i was wondering if there is a better option. Flipping the tab inward so it Velcro's onto the inside of the arm wing seems like it might be uncomfortable.

So I'm guessing you've never broken an arm zipper...I have and I was very happy to have those secondary cutaways. Your head is not in the right place, bro.

Chuck


rbignon  (D 237927)

Feb 1, 2013, 2:46 PM
Post #12 of 26 (1854 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

My head is not in the right place? possibly but at least i am here trying to get more info.

Let me apologize for not wording my initial question properly. i am not trying to eliminate them entirely i want to still have the option on using them in the event of a zipper breaking and i had to remove it. basically i am thinking of replacing the larger cutaway loop with a smaller tab the can be stowed on the inside of the sleeve to avoid it being grab able by a newbie trying to dock.

I have not broken a zipper but i have reached my toggles and landed without unzipping before. Are you saying that in the event of you being under canopy and you broke a zipper, your life in now in danger! you can't break through or find a way to steer? what do you do if your wearing any other brand that does not offer a secondary zipper/cutaway ?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Feb 1, 2013, 3:26 PM
Post #13 of 26 (1836 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My head is not in the right place? possibly but at least i am here trying to get more info.

Let me apologize for not wording my initial question properly. i am not trying to eliminate them entirely i want to still have the option on using them in the event of a zipper breaking and i had to remove it. basically i am thinking of replacing the larger cutaway loop with a smaller tab the can be stowed on the inside of the sleeve to avoid it being grab able by a newbie trying to dock.

I have not broken a zipper but i have reached my toggles and landed without unzipping before. Are you saying that in the event of you being under canopy and you broke a zipper, your life in now in danger! you can't break through or find a way to steer? what do you do if your wearing any other brand that does not offer a secondary zipper/cutaway ?

FWIW, over approx 300 Level 7 (Intro to docking) jumps, never once has this been even remotely close to an issue (newbie grabbing a cutaway). Never had a newb grab a gripper, either. I'm sure it's *possible* but highly unlikely.
Has anyone ever experienced a newbie accidentally pull a cutaway cable on a dock?


tvandijck  (D 30374)

Feb 1, 2013, 8:11 PM
Post #14 of 26 (1801 views)
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Re: [DSE] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
FWIW, over approx 300 Level 7 (Intro to docking) jumps, never once has this been even remotely close to an issue (newbie grabbing a cutaway). Never had a newb grab a gripper, either. I'm sure it's *possible* but highly unlikely.
Has anyone ever experienced a newbie accidentally pull a cutaway cable on a dock?

Never had it either ;) but I'm willing to try this for science, shits and giggles... Sunday, anyone at Elsinore can come dock at me and pull my arm release ;) see what happens...


GobbleGobble  (D 32887)

Feb 1, 2013, 10:31 PM
Post #15 of 26 (1773 views)
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Re: [tvandijck] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
FWIW, over approx 300 Level 7 (Intro to docking) jumps, never once has this been even remotely close to an issue (newbie grabbing a cutaway). Never had a newb grab a gripper, either. I'm sure it's *possible* but highly unlikely.
Has anyone ever experienced a newbie accidentally pull a cutaway cable on a dock?

Never had it either ;) but I'm willing to try this for science, shits and giggles... Sunday, anyone at Elsinore can come dock at me and pull my arm release ;) see what happens...

Game on!


OuttaBounZ

Feb 1, 2013, 11:43 PM
Post #16 of 26 (1760 views)
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Re: [GobbleGobble] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
FWIW, over approx 300 Level 7 (Intro to docking) jumps, never once has this been even remotely close to an issue (newbie grabbing a cutaway). Never had a newb grab a gripper, either. I'm sure it's *possible* but highly unlikely.
Has anyone ever experienced a newbie accidentally pull a cutaway cable on a dock?

Never had it either ;) but I'm willing to try this for science, shits and giggles... Sunday, anyone at Elsinore can come dock at me and pull my arm release ;) see what happens...

Game on!

+1 This sounds like a ton of fun! Like wingsuit dog-fighting.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Feb 2, 2013, 1:29 AM
Post #17 of 26 (1737 views)
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Re: [GobbleGobble] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
FWIW, over approx 300 Level 7 (Intro to docking) jumps, never once has this been even remotely close to an issue (newbie grabbing a cutaway). Never had a newb grab a gripper, either. I'm sure it's *possible* but highly unlikely.
Has anyone ever experienced a newbie accidentally pull a cutaway cable on a dock?

Never had it either ;) but I'm willing to try this for science, shits and giggles... Sunday, anyone at Elsinore can come dock at me and pull my arm release ;) see what happens...

Game on!

Kevlar, you take left, I'll take right. We'll see if we can make Tom wingless! I'll bet it's a lot harder than it sounds.


lurch  (D 27583)

Feb 2, 2013, 4:56 AM
Post #18 of 26 (1707 views)
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Re: [rbignon] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, and worst case scenario, your wing comes loose?
Meh.
Training for competition last season I discovered that freeflying an Apache headdown for 3000 feet with my arms held in a certain position caused my right armwing zipper to pound loose and come unzipped on its own.
At 178 mph.
Wing started drumming harder and harder...

Pulled out of the dive, still holding the gripper, made my practice run anyway, (getting windy in here, excess drag, waste of a good run) exited the gates at 6500, checked out the wing... hmm...
released the gripper, wing blew off. Oops. Bit asymmetrical here, but not really a problem.

Reached around, grabbed it, folded both wings in, got a hand on the zipper, rezipped the wing, kept right on flying. So much for in flight wing blowout. And this is the biggest suit you can buy.

...oh, and Spot? I wanna see this dogfight, although I'm not much of a videobird I'd offer to shoot the dive just to see it play out, I'd be laughing almost too hard to fly... saw a whole bunch of small birds pickin' on a hawk once, this sounds even funnier...
-B


(This post was edited by lurch on Feb 2, 2013, 5:38 AM)


pms07  (D 7571)

Feb 2, 2013, 8:01 AM
Post #19 of 26 (1670 views)
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Re: [lurch] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

The left arm wing zipper of my old Raptor routinely comes open while back flying. Not sure why, I don't see any unusual wear or damage to the zipper. Regardless, its pretty easy to manage.

If I had an arm wing cutaway system on any of my wing suits I would leave it there in case I need it someday...


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Feb 4, 2013, 9:31 AM
Post #20 of 26 (1491 views)
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Re: [pms07] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The left arm wing zipper of my old Raptor routinely comes open while back flying. Not sure why, I don't see any unusual wear or damage to the zipper. Regardless, its pretty easy to manage.

If I had an arm wing cutaway system on any of my wing suits I would leave it there in case I need it someday...

Me too, because I HAVE had to use the secondary cutaway system twice on jumps where my zipper jammed/ broke in the "zipped" configuration.

To the guy who was asking whether or not I have had to use the secondary release in order to safely control my canopy, the answer is definitely "yes". Years ago, maybe 2001, I opened into a spinner due to a brake fire. I counter-steered in the harness and went to unzip. My left arm zipper jammed/broke and before I could get to my secondary cutaways I was already VERY spun up, so I chopped. My reserve opened up to a couple of line twists, I could not reach my toggle on my left side, and I pulled my secondary cutaways then got out of the twists. I got it totally sorted out at like 800 feet. Not having QUICK and EASY access to my secondaries might have totally fucked me. I don't think I'd consider ever making mine more difficult to access, but what do I know, right?

Chuck
BMCI-4, PFC/E (among other things)


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Feb 4, 2013, 12:05 PM
Post #21 of 26 (1422 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

You talking about THIS ONE?

I'll reiterate what has already been said. It's a bad idea and the OPs reasoning for eliminating the wing cutaway sounds like a solution to/for a problem that doesn't exist. "Better to have and not need than to need and not have" is a solid saying in this case.


roostnureye  (D 32166)

Feb 4, 2013, 12:57 PM
Post #22 of 26 (1400 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

hey guys just a quick heads up:

last weekend i was at the everglades boogie and when i registered i got a cool little arm band for the boogie. upon opening my main i tried to unzip my armwing and was unable to because the bracelet got jammed in the zipper. i struggled for a while trying to get this thing unjammed, it was a real pain in the ass. once on the ground i packed and went back up,(figured it was a one time thing)but it happened again!!!! but worse, ended up landing with the armwing still jammed. no more boogie bracelets for this guy!


The111  (D 29246)

Feb 4, 2013, 1:55 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1384 views)
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Re: [roostnureye] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
no more boogie bracelets for this guy!

Put it on your ankle, guy. Wink


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Feb 4, 2013, 4:15 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1357 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You talking about THIS ONE?

I'll reiterate what has already been said. It's a bad idea and the OPs reasoning for eliminating the wing cutaway sounds like a solution to/for a problem that doesn't exist. "Better to have and not need than to need and not have" is a solid saying in this case.


No, bro. I was talking about the one before, at Raeford, just before Jari came and visited us. I landed in the field right across the street (near Sheck's) on this one. You are talking about the second one at Eloy. Thanks for bringing that back up though.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:34 PM
Post #25 of 26 (1328 views)
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Eliminating Wingsuit Cutaway [In reply to] Can't Post

Got a Birdman Blade2 if you can find one. Those cutaways always seemed to be sewed in to the point where they definately never come outTongue

But jokes aside...also personaly prefer having one, and would rather put my faith in the dozens of situations where they saved somebodies ass, than the nightmare of a situation that has never occured.

Even IF a student would pull one out, whats the worst that can happen when you're at 5000 ft or higher?
Sounds like an easier situation to deal with than the absence of one in a situation a lot lower where you want and really need it!


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