Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
RSL and "big" wingsuits?

 


flydive  (D License)

Jan 27, 2013, 7:46 PM
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RSL and "big" wingsuits? Can't Post

Hey folks,
What's the word on the street these days with RSL's on today's big wingsuits?
Specifically, does anybody have actual incidents of RSL's making things worse in a given malfunction scenario?


Old RSL/WS thread here from 2005:http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 27, 2013, 8:11 PM
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Re: [flydive] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

When you want to hear about how things with an RSL and big suit worked out just fine let me know.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jan 27, 2013, 8:12 PM
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Re: [flydive] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

Though views on the use of RSL/Skyhook vary greatly within the skydive community, the general consensus is that more fatalities could have been prevented by the use than accidents have been caused.

Most of out sponsored athletes have RSL/Skyhook equipped rigs, and
aside from malfunctions related to entanglement with camera gear
and/or CRW related activities (similar to normal skydives), we see no
reason to not have an RSL connected if present.

With some of the newer, large surface wingsuits from various
manufacturers having an increased potential for instability on longer
delays after a cutaway (legwing extentions and lower armwings going beyond the point of being collapseable, tumbling end over end after a cutaway becomes a much bigger risk) we do from PF in fact highly recommend the use of an RSL/Skyhook if present.


The111  (D 29246)

Jan 27, 2013, 10:14 PM
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Re: [flydive] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure I understand what RSL's have to do with wingsuits. Small wingsuit, large wingsuit, no wingsuit... an RSL is going to function the same in all of those cases. Once you are under a malfunctioning canopy, you are no longer flying a wingsuit... you're flying a malfunctioning canopy.


murf62

Jan 28, 2013, 4:44 AM
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Re: [The111] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jan 28, 2013, 5:02 AM
Post #6 of 17 (1915 views)
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Re: [murf62] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS

From what I heard, you've been unstable at most other altitudes as wellTongue


kallend  (D 23151)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:22 AM
Post #7 of 17 (1870 views)
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Re: [mccordia] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS

From what I heard, you've been unstable at most other altitudes as wellTongue

LaughLaughLaugh


kallend  (D 23151)

Jan 28, 2013, 7:23 AM
Post #8 of 17 (1863 views)
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Re: [murf62] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be.

And you have the rest of your life to spend trying to get stable before deploying your reserve.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jan 28, 2013, 9:21 AM
Post #9 of 17 (1809 views)
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Re: [flydive] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got over 2700 wingsuit jumps and I have an RSL on my wingsuit rig. I"ve chopped two BAD spinners with it and I have not had a problem. Still, I brief both the pros and cons of it in my FFC's. If I had a Skyhook rig I would ALWAYS use it; I do not. With or without an RSL one of the things you MUST try to do prior to cutting away a main is take your legwing out of the equation. I ALWAYS teach to hook the ankles and break at the knees and try to throw yourself back onto your belly prior to pulling the cutaway handle to help prevent doing a gainer. With a "regular" RSL there is the chance that you could backloop through your deploying reserve risers if you chop from a spinner that has you on your back with your neck tied down. Personally, I throw my knee into the direction of the spin, hook my ankles, then chop.

YMMV, but I doubt it.


Tomek13

Jan 28, 2013, 10:01 AM
Post #10 of 17 (1793 views)
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Re: [flydive] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey folks,
What's the word on the street these days with RSL's on today's big wingsuits?
Specifically, does anybody have actual incidents of RSL's making things worse in a given malfunction scenario?

We had really sad incident in Poland 22 July 2012, you can read about it in this report (but in polish language): http://www.transport.gov.pl/files/0/1795437/20120845RK.pdf
Wingsuiter died, he had a mulfunction on his main canopy and the next he had a big problem with his reserve - reserve conopy was still in freebag until he hit the ground. He had RSL in this jump and it did not help him, he was on his back and reserve bridle caught the camera on his helmet :-(
My english is not good to explain what exactly happened in this jump but I think people should read this report and should know what happened (maybe someone can translate it). I wrote this text here because I think it may save someone's life in the future.


(This post was edited by Tomek13 on Jan 28, 2013, 10:17 AM)


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jan 28, 2013, 11:02 AM
Post #11 of 17 (1755 views)
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Re: [Tomek13] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
He had RSL in this jump and it did not help him

But it also doesnt seem to have influenced the outcome in a negative way. Either with or without an RSL, the issue seemed to be the camera mount on the helmet catching the reserve bridle.
A similar big sidemounted camera (with a box on it) caused a wingsuit fatality in Holland a few months back as well, with the reserve risers getting caught behind the box (no RSL present).

Sadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits.


The111  (D 29246)

Jan 28, 2013, 11:28 AM
Post #12 of 17 (1731 views)
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Re: [murf62] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be.

So from that we can take home that not having an RSL may result in a different situation after a chop depending on whether you are or are not in a wingsuit (assuming you actually "go back into freefall" after chopping a main, which I would not, depending on how you define freefall Wink).

But, my original question was, what does having an RSL have to do with whether or not you are wearing a wingsuit? The OP asked for concrete examples of a wingsuit/RSL combo causing problems, and I doubt he will find any, but I'm more interested in what kind of hypothetical thoughts would lead one to even ask this question. I still don't understand how an RSL could even be bad in theory even with the world's largest wingsuit.

I don't have an RSL because I do so many jumps with a pretty big camera setup. But otherwise I would have one for sure. Unrelated but cool story bro: I did have one chop years ago with an RSL where it actually disconnected itself when it was supposed to function (I did not realize this until after landing when I noticed the RSL still on my rig with the shackle wide open). I asked the rig manufacturer about it and they said that is a known issue with RSL shackles.


The111  (D 29246)

Jan 28, 2013, 11:29 AM
Post #13 of 17 (1730 views)
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Re: [mccordia] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits.

Agreed.


Tomek13

Jan 28, 2013, 11:37 AM
Post #14 of 17 (1723 views)
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Re: [mccordia] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not mean it is RSL blame. There was bad canopy choise (crossfire2 135), not much wingsuit jumps and decision to use Vampire 3.

I have not much wingsuit jumps (~ 50) and I think very often about this sad situation, I am not sure what is better: use or do not use RSL with wingsuit.


(This post was edited by Tomek13 on Jan 28, 2013, 11:47 AM)


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jan 29, 2013, 9:54 AM
Post #15 of 17 (1552 views)
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Re: [The111] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits.

Agreed.

+1

It's a risk you take when you choose to wear a helmet. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves..

Chuck


kallend  (D 23151)

Jan 29, 2013, 5:37 PM
Post #16 of 17 (1459 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves..

Chuck

+1 on that too.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jan 30, 2013, 4:10 PM
Post #17 of 17 (1360 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] RSL and "big" wingsuits? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves..

Chuck
Wrong answer Bobble-head videos are the best! IGM. Chicks dig it.



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