Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Emergency Procedures consolidated

 


canatheart  (C 3567)

Jan 27, 2013, 4:35 PM
Post #1 of 18 (1828 views)
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Emergency Procedures consolidated Can't Post

So I have read countless posts in this forum and I don't quite have a firm grasp on how my EPs will change once I begin jumping with a camera on my head. I will be consulting with experienced camera jumpers once the season starts, but I want to be as prepared mentally as I can be now...can we maybe consolidate how EPs change when jumping as a camera person (assuming I'm wearing wings and a cutaway system) and how to deal with each situation? Maybe have the same scenarios but with RSL connected/not connected if it changes the proceedures. Thanks!


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Jan 27, 2013, 5:12 PM
Post #2 of 18 (1779 views)
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Re: [canatheart] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a good question - I've read a lot of posts intimating that someone or other is doing it wrong but I'd like to hear exactly what the experienced people do...


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 27, 2013, 9:34 PM
Post #3 of 18 (1718 views)
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Re: [canatheart] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

The wings aren't going to change what you do in terms of EP's, assuming you don't disconnect them before you release your toggles. It's important to be sure you have a properly flying canopy before releasing wing clips and having flapping fabric.
Adding helmet cutaway touches to your EP checks is a good idea.

Touch your main, then your cutaway, then your helmet cutaway, then your reserve handle.

Opinions vary on this, but I'm a fan of using the RSL, for _most_ camera setups. Yes, you could have a helmet entanglement, and an RSL might make that situation worse.

Either way, have a cutaway on your camera helmet. Practice reaching for it. Make it part of your routine maintenance (check lolon for lubrication, check pins if any, for rust, make sure it works cleanly/properly every few months).


canatheart  (C 3567)

Jan 28, 2013, 2:30 AM
Post #4 of 18 (1686 views)
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Re: [DSE] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first? If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jan 28, 2013, 5:34 AM
Post #5 of 18 (1646 views)
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Re: [canatheart] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

Generally, no, because otherwise you would have to let go of your brakes again to unclip your wings.

In reply to:
So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first?

People have died trying to cut a line, a bridle, etc so NO.


In reply to:
If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?

If you cutaway your helmet because it is entagled with your main, releasing the helmet will likely mean it is now dangling from your main (read: banging into you /your head) and you will still need to get rid of it. Altitude permitting you valuate the new situation quickly, but I would think almost all cases you will still need to cutaway the main, unless releasing the helmet freed it from the main too and there is no damage, other problem with the main.

Basically, when you start jumping camera, same as with your main, don't hesitate to jettison it should you need to.


Skwrl  (C 36419)

Jan 28, 2013, 8:02 AM
Post #6 of 18 (1612 views)
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Re: [canatheart] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So release the brakes BEFORE unclipping the wings?

So let's go through an entanglement...would you automatically cut away your helmet? If it's a low speed mal but you can't free your helmet, would you try cutting the line first? If you cutaway your helmet, how high is the probability that you would have to follow that by a main cutaway?

Here's an example of how NOT to do it. https://vimeo.com/37998866 (Yeah, I post this video a lot...)

Here's my plan. [Despite a bunch of cutaways (mostly spinning line twists from wingsuting), I've thankfully not yet had to execute on this version of my EPs, but the following is my plan.]

If my main is entangled in my helmet, I am going to make exactly one attempt with my hands to untangle the line. I will not attempt to cut it. If I can't clear the attempt quickly with one attempt, I will cut the helmet away, keeping in mind that (depending on how it's entangled) the helmet might whack me in the head or might go flying off my head, who knows... If, after cutting away the helmet, the problem still exists, I will cut away the main.

Now, you mention "low speed". I think you mean a situation where "the canopy is out, but it's not flying straight and level". If it is entangled, it is highly probable that at least some of the lines are being pulled shorter than you would find in normal flight. If that's the case, it's likely turning, and more likely than not in a bit of a dive. A diving canopy cuts through altitude pretty damn fast, and I will not screw around with my helmet while it does so. I will use the same approach as I described above.

If I somehow have an entangled mess that is causing a slow, flat turn, I might make an additional attempt - with my hands - to remove the lines before cutting away the helmet. But realistically, that's not going to happen...

I don't take the decision to cut away my helmet lightly - I've got a ton of pricey toys on it. But if I'm dead, I can't use my pricey toys any more (as far as I know), so I'd rather cut them away.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 28, 2013, 9:12 AM
Post #7 of 18 (1594 views)
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Re: [canatheart] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is a scenario:

Tandem videographer has a normal deployment (he's done this around 1000 times).
Unclips wings.
Releases toggles, apparently one was not stowed correctly.
Canopy goes into a highspeed spin (highly loaded canopy).
Camera wings cover handles.
AAD was out for service (likely wouldn't have fired anyway)
No RSL.
Fatality.

This leads to the conclusion that you want to have a there, square, steerable canopy prior to unclipping wings.
No, I don't suggest you cutaway the helmet "no matter what." If the main or reserve entangle with it, there may be force upon it, so you might want to jettison the helmet. Some feel a Fastex can be released under pressure. Having tried it in a few circumstances, I can tell you they don't release easily.
I've had two chops while wearing a full camera setup. Neither time have I needed to chop. I had an RSL on one of those chops.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 28, 2013, 10:21 AM
Post #8 of 18 (1564 views)
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Re: [DSE] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Touch your main, then your cutaway, then your helmet cutaway, then your reserve handle.

I prefer to do:

Main, helmet cutaway, cutaway, reserve.

I almost had to use the helmet cutaway a few weeks ago but managed to unsnag the line with my first attempt.

I wouldn't fancy chopping a main that my head was still attached on to! I have found sometimes the cutaway on my helmet gets sucked up inside so checking it as part of the handle check is certainly a good idea.

Wink


Zlew  (D 21616)

Jan 28, 2013, 10:37 AM
Post #9 of 18 (1553 views)
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Re: [DSE] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

Different wing setups might be different, but I usually don't unclip my wings. Undoing the hand/thumb loops give me all the mobility I need to fly and land. I usually jump med wings, so the drag they create under canopy really isn't a big deal.

My old jumpsuit that had fastex clips attaching the wings to my upper leg were real easy to unclip. Now I use the RSL shackles that attache the wing by wrapping it arond my legstrap. They are not hard to release, but not as mindless as the clips on my leg.


canatheart  (C 3567)

Jan 29, 2013, 4:42 PM
Post #10 of 18 (1449 views)
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Re: [Skwrl] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

Really great information...gives me a lot to think about! Any other potential scenarios that might seem obvious to you but not so much to a camera newbie like me?


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Jan 30, 2013, 1:50 AM
Post #11 of 18 (1398 views)
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Re: [Skwrl] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

My setup:

Top mounted CX100 on Cookie helmet
Cutaway on chin cup
Skyhook
No camera wings (yet)

I have the RSL connected at all times and plan to do my EPs as normal, unless something snags on my helmet at which point I will cutaway the chin cup.

Am I going to get killed?

One thing I've thought of regarding the Skyhook is that I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy, as the reserve bridle will be getting pulled up by the main directly behind my head.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jan 30, 2013, 3:15 AM
Post #12 of 18 (1384 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy

Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?


What happens with your arch when you look down?

Look at the main canopy departing? Why? So you get it on video? Crazy


Skwrl  (C 36419)

Jan 30, 2013, 5:27 AM
Post #13 of 18 (1362 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix & dragon2] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have the RSL connected at all times and plan to do my EPs as normal, unless something snags on my helmet at which point I will cutaway the chin cup.

Am I going to get killed?

Not sure why you would - what I was saying related only to when there is a helmet/main entanglement.

In reply to:
Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?

I'm not so sure it's entirely that cut and dry. I use a Skyhook RSL, too, and there is a lot of debate about whether the departing main (which is pulling out the reserve) changes the angle at which the reserve comes out (as compared to how it normally comes out). In other words, the Skyhook - so the theory goes - causes the reserve to come out closer to the back of the head than it would otherwise. There are heated debates on dizzy.com (and elsewhere) as to whether that should change what people like us with a lot of tall crap on our helmets should do with our heads as a result. I don't really know where I come out on that debate - I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.


Zlew  (D 21616)

Jan 30, 2013, 8:41 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1333 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

Recent thread talking about RSL and SKyhook for video.

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread


pattersd  (D License)

Jan 30, 2013, 9:14 AM
Post #15 of 18 (1324 views)
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Re: [Skwrl] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.

I hope they figure it out for you before your next cutaway!Wink


Skwrl  (C 36419)

Jan 30, 2013, 9:36 AM
Post #16 of 18 (1310 views)
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Re: [pattersd] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I leave it to smarter folks to figure it out.

I hope they figure it out for you before your next cutaway!Wink

Smile To be totally honest, I know what I'm going to do, it's just that I don't feel that I've seen enough data to recommend that anyone else do what I've decided to do. Edited to add: It's the difference between assuming a course of action that potentially creates a risk for oneself versus being confident enough with that course of action to recommend it to others.

With stuff like this, I prefer to mention the controversy and let others decide for themselves. After all, I'm not an instructor of anything skydiving related. I just like taking (hopefully pretty) pictures of people flying wingsuits.


(This post was edited by Skwrl on Jan 30, 2013, 9:39 AM)


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Jan 31, 2013, 9:21 PM
Post #17 of 18 (1209 views)
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Re: [dragon2] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I should probably keep my head down when I have to chop, rather than look up at the departing canopy

Neither. What have you been taught about EPs? Head back and ARCH sound familiar?


What happens with your arch when you look down?

Look at the main canopy departing? Why? So you get it on video? Crazy

Yes that's what I was taught - but then I started to wonder about the possibility of entanglement with the reserve bridle. I haven't had to chop yet but I think when it happens I'll do it as I was trained to do - i.e. arch.
As far as looking up at the main is concerned, yes I believe it's a dumb idea to try and get it on video but I reckon in the heat of the moment it would tempting. But then again, if you're arching, you'd have your head back, so it'd be the same difference wouldn't it? Like I said though I haven't had to chop yet so it's mainly a hypothetical discussion for me at this point.

Anyway thanks for all the responses, I couldn't be bothered putting all your names in the subject line. :)


Zlew  (D 21616)

Feb 1, 2013, 1:19 PM
Post #18 of 18 (1168 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Emergency Procedures consolidated [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally don't like the idea of having my head back and sticking all my gear any closer to my reserve PC/lines/Bag and such when you chop/pop. I don't really think it will be much of an issue though since most people look down when they chop (to look at their handles). I don't have an RSL, so I have a moment or two to get back belly to earth (edit- if I choose to not instantly deploy my reserve), and I don't think looking up or down would matter as much since in theory the deployment would be at more of a 90 degree angle to your head, compared to flying right by it if you deploy closer to a standing (or tumbling through space....) position right after you chop..

I might be more conservative than some on this...but I don't want my helmet gear any closer to the last parachute I have than I have to.


(This post was edited by Zlew on Feb 1, 2013, 1:21 PM)



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