Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Question about buying a new container

 


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 5:44 AM
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Question about buying a new container Can't Post

I am looking into getting my first rig. I have decided to buy a new container/harness due to the difficulty of finding a used one that will fit my height. I am going to get a used 190sf main (1:1 wing load). What is the recommended size/wing load for a reserve. I have noticed while looking at complete rigs on the classifieds, that reserves tend to be a little smaller than the mains. The reason I ask is because I want to get the container made to fit tight so that as I become more experienced and decide to down size, I don't have to buy another container. Thanks for any help.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jan 25, 2013, 5:51 AM
Post #2 of 18 (1040 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

The recommended wing loading on reserves is no greater than the wing loading on mains -- and, frankly, you should consider having it be lighter.

Your first reserve ride is far more likely to be into some off-dz area, that might be congested. You'll be amped up because it is a reserve ride.

That's not the best time to downsize.

And something to consider in getting a tight container is that it will make packing your main harder. Do you plan to pay someone to pack for you? That's not the best way to get familiar with your gear, and gear familiarity with gear breeds safety, not contempt.

Me, I'd get a container that fits, even if not perfectly, but that fits the main I'm ready to jump now, and the reserve I'm ready to jump now, in a way that's reasonably easy to pack. I've done that a couple of times before, and never regretted it.

Wendy P.


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 6:18 AM
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Re: [wmw999] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Wendy. I am in the military and have been through free fall school, we packed a lot there (flat packing) and a lot since then. It is a real pain to get a 370sf in it's container. I am not afraid of a tight fit and will be the only one packing (my main). As for the off DZ landings, I have landed in an unmarked DZ using GPS to find my glide ratio to ensure that I landed into the wind, at night on a pretty small DZ in the woods with body armor on, a rucksack hanging from me, a weapon across my belly and O2 on. Granted it was a 7 cell, 370, F-111 and not a cut away, but I feel pretty comfortable under canopy in stressful situations. I do however, totally agree that if I am riding my reserve that I probably don't want a high wing load. I am just afraid of buying something brand new that I am going to "grow" out of (down sizing) and have to spend a bunch more money...my wife will hate me. Unsure Thanks for your advice though, I will definitely take it all into consideration.

After proof reading this reply I noticed that I sound cocky. I don't mean to come off that way, I just wanted to give you the full situation so that you didn't think I was some newbie "hot shot" that is going to hurt himself. I am going to be as safe as I possibly can be. There is too much out there to miss out on being hurt or dead! Not to mention other jumpers that can be effected by someone being unsafe.


(This post was edited by ericja321 on Jan 25, 2013, 6:40 AM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 25, 2013, 7:21 AM
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am just afraid of buying something brand new that I am going to "grow" out of (down sizing) and have to spend a bunch more money

1) You may never decide to downsize. Lots of jumpers are perfectly happy at 1.0 - 1.2 wingloading.

2) Overstuffing a container doesn't just make it less fun to pack. It also puts stress on the closing flaps and grommets. Not to mention the fact that overstuffed containers look like shit.

3) You can safely go down at least one, if not two, main canopy sizes in the same container. By the time you are really ready for a 135, you will be ready for a new container.

4) Any used container sized for a 190 main is going to sell super fast and will retain more resale value than a container sized for say a 135. Why? How hard it is to find one?

5) You're going to be spending a crapload of money for as long as you are in the sport. Get used to it.

In reply to:
. I am going to be as safe as I possibly can be.

So said many people who can no longer jump... cuz they weren't acting as safe as they said they'd be...


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Jan 25, 2013, 7:40 AM
Post #5 of 18 (977 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The reason I ask is because I want to get the container made to fit tight so that as I become more experienced and decide to down size, I don't have to buy another container.

Over stuffed reserve containers have led to bag extraction problems and slow or no reserve deployment. Unless you know some secrets about the reserve pilot chute I would limit the extraction force to 18 pounds. That is the maximinum drag/lift available 1 second after a cutaway and there are several pilot chutes which will not provide even that much drag/lift leading to a slow reserve deplotment.


NeonLights  (D License)

Jan 25, 2013, 8:12 AM
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey man, if you are in contact with your MFFI's still, talk to them. And also any experienced guys in your unit or former MFF at your DZ. They seem to understand our capabilities as a military freefaller a little better. They always told me just what you said above.. "If you can land in a field full of cactus, at night, with over 100lbs of equipment, and an oxygen mask on your face, in less than favorable weather conditions... Dont sweat a reserve ride on a sport rig."


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:18 AM
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Re: [skybytch] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that I am going to spend a crapload of money in this sport and I have accepted that, I just don't want to regret buying a rig. I am just doing as much research as possible.

As far as the downsizing, I already wish I could downsize but like I said(and mean), I want to be as safe as I can. I am going to take some canopy control classes, attend USPA's safety days, get more experience and seek advice from people at my drop zone before downsizing.

I think that I might have not explained my question well enough; I want to buy a container that will fit a 190 with room to downsize, I was asking what size reserve will fit well with a 190. So, most of your comments are actually pretty helpful. Thank you for that.

I mean it when I say that I am as safe a possible. I posted here to get some help so I can continue to be safe.

Thanks again for your comments.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:24 AM
Post #8 of 18 (912 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think that I might have not explained my question well enough; I want to buy a container that will fit a 190 with room to downsize, I was asking what size reserve will fit well with a 190. So, most of your comments are actually pretty helpful. Thank you for that.

A different way to think about it is that if you get a container now that fits a 190 main and a similarly-sized reserve (190/193), if/when you downsize to a canopy in the 170 range, there is absolutely no need to downsize your reserve at that point (or ever, for that matter). Very few people look up at their reserve and say "gosh, I wish it were smaller!"


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Jan 25, 2013, 9:24 AM)


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:25 AM
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Re: [JohnSherman] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the help. That is good to know.

I may have misused the word "tight". I want to get a container that has room to go down and not up.

I didn't know about limiting the extraction force to 18 pounds but I am definitely not looking to over stuff my container(reserve or main).

Again, thank you for your constructive reply to my post. I will definitely remember what you have taught me.


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:30 AM
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Re: [NeonLights] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. I am planning on talking to those guys when I get home, I am not state side right now. I am really hoping to order my container in time for it to be ready for leave. I am heading to California and Hawaii and want to visit the drop zones out there. Trying to get as much info till then.
Thanks again and blue skies.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:32 AM
Post #11 of 18 (896 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Many containers have a "ideal fit" specified for a range of canopies. get a container that fits that size main and reserve. The same container will most probably be fine with 1 size smaller main. Check with that particular company to make sure.

And yes, get a similar sized reserve as to what you fly confidently with now (or 1 size larger), not smaller.


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:38 AM
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Re: [NWFlyer] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your comment. I was thinking the same thing. I can't think of a reason to downsize my reserve. I am just not sure about how they fit together. By that I mean, is there a certain point while downsizing your container and main, that your reserve won't fit anymore? And does the symmetry get thrown off with a reserve that is larger than your main?


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:42 AM
Post #13 of 18 (886 views)
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Re: [Remster] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. I actually just went to the Sun Path and Mirage web sites and looked at their container sizing charts. I should have thought of that before I wrote this post, but then again at least I learned some things.
Thanks for your help.


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:47 AM
Post #14 of 18 (882 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

One more question. I am new to forums. How do you do the "in reply to", taking a sentence out of someone elses reply and inserting it into your reply? I know...newbie. Thanks.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jan 25, 2013, 9:56 AM
Post #15 of 18 (868 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thank you for your comment. I was thinking the same thing. I can't think of a reason to downsize my reserve. I am just not sure about how they fit together. By that I mean, is there a certain point while downsizing your container and main, that your reserve won't fit anymore? And does the symmetry get thrown off with a reserve that is larger than your main?

One size will not even really be noticeable to anyone but your rigger. I'll use me as an example. My first container (which is now my backup container) had a "true" 218 reserve in there for a long while. It was a tight, but safe, fit. I then got an Optimum 218, which packs a full size smaller. The only thing I noticed is that it's lighter on my back. And my rigger hates me less. Laugh

If you get to the point where there's a big asymmetry, most container manufacturers can build you something to accommodate that. JohnMitchell (a regular poster on here) has a 150 Main/218 reserve combo in his Infinity that looks great, but it's been designed to handle that combination.

(Oh, and to quote someone else, use the "Quote" button on the right of the person's post).


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Jan 25, 2013, 9:56 AM)


ericja321  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 10:05 AM
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Re: [NWFlyer] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jan 25, 2013, 2:37 PM
Post #17 of 18 (804 views)
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Re: [ericja321] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am just afraid of buying something brand new that I am going to "grow" out of (down sizing) and have to spend a bunch more money...my wife will hate me. Unsure

So don't buy something brand new.

Canopies which can be relatively safe in 250, 500, 1000 jumps are very dangerous now. Buying one you'll "grow into" puts you at risk for death and injury (which gets real expensive even with health and disability insurance) is not the right choice.

Get a used main and used container. Both will depreciate about $1/jump. If you want a smaller main sell what you have and buy another used canopy. Repeat as desired within the safety limits laid out by Brian Germain's Wingloading Never Exceed Formula. When the container is too big for your desired main size, sell and replace it.

Regardless of how many canopies you go through you'll have spent about $2/jump on depreciation. If you do a good job buying and selling it'll be less.

Some time you'll arrive at gear sizes you'll want to keep indefinitely and can get something flashy in your colors.

Also note that if you're an odd body shape/size and can't get a used container which fits it's possible to put a new harness on a container (often about $400) where used + modifications are less expensive than new.

If you do buy new accept that you'll take a bigger loss selling it. Your wife will be less unhappy about the budget hit than she will taking care of you after you break yourself.

Also look at less popular rigs like the Sunrise Wings. The markup is less.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jan 25, 2013, 2:40 PM)


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jan 25, 2013, 2:45 PM
Post #18 of 18 (801 views)
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] Question about buying a new container [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Also look at less popular rigs like the Sunrise Wings. The markup is less.

Especially since the OP mentioned being military. AFAIK Sunrise still has a substantial military discount that makes the price very attractive.



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