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PD new canopy "Peregrine"

 

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mchamp  (D 32129)

Jan 24, 2013, 7:37 PM
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PD new canopy "Peregrine" Can't Post

So this canopy is apparently a strictly competition canopy ONLY? They recommend only sub-terminal deployments.

Also from what it sounds like this is by INVITATION only? Is this due to the fact that they want people purchasing their Competition Velocity canopies prior as they put quite a bit of money into research and development and is still relatively new? Or perhaps they simply feel that only the comp velo can prepare you for this canopy. Thoughts?

Are canopies becoming like elite exclusive credit cards or high tier frequent flyer programs that are by invitation only?

http://www.performancedesigns.com/peregrine_info.asp

&

http://www.performancedesigns.com/peregrine.asp

Side note....the logo looks similar to the Koenigsegg's CCXR no? haha
Attachments: Screen Shot 2013-01-25 at 10.32.46 AM.png (199 KB)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 24, 2013, 8:26 PM
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Are canopies becoming like elite exclusive credit cards or high tier frequent flyer programs that are by invitation only?

No, because any dick with time and money can get into frequent flyer programs or get a balck or titainium AMEX.

PD knows better than most that the pilot needs to match the wing, or neither will get very far. Unless you can fly the shit out of a Comp Velo, why even bother with anything faster?

As far as the 'return on investment' of the Comp Velo, I doubt that they're trying to funnel customers into that wing to get their money back. For starters, it's just a modded Velo, and that canopy has been around for better than a decade, and is easily the most popular X-braced canopy out there. I'm quite sure they get their money back on that one.

The other issue is that the Comp Velo itself is also an 'elitist' canopy, in that very few people are actually qualifed to fly it. If you're a Comp Velo caliber pilot, you don't need PD to try and funnel you in that direction, you'll end up there on your own.

Personally, I love and hate the marketing position. Build it to sub-terminal standards, and you ensure that it's a swoop-only wing. Just like RDS and just like the Comp Velo, if you make anything that can survive terminal, somebody somewhere is going to use for everyday jumping, no matter what you tell them. Build it so it won't survive, and then they'll listen.

The deal with it being 'invitation only', is great in principal that it really forces the pilots to 'put up or shut-up', but total shit in reality because it means that I end up having to 'shut up'. Despite 16 years of flying high-preformance PD canopies, almost none of it involved competition (there were no comps for a bunch of those years), and so I off 'the list' for anyone who will be flying one of these beasts anytime soon.

Do I think I'm ready to step up and fly the thing in competition beyond Comp Velo standards? Not really. Do I think I'm qualifed to take it out and safely uncork the thing to see what it can do? Sure, but if the deal is that I have to wait for PD to call me, I'm not going to hold my breath.

I'm pretty sure they're going to email me soon, but just to tell me my reline is done.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 24, 2013, 9:42 PM
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

"Performance Designs is identifying top CP pilots and contacting them directly with the opportunity to fly the PEREGRINE, based on their experience and historical competition results. The PEREGRINE will not be made available through our PD dealer network. If you are seriously interested in a Peregrine, the best way to let us know is to continue competing on your Comp Velocity. As you demonstrate your skills and experience, and rise among the CP ranks, we will most certainly take notice."

It's PD's canopy, they can set the rules however they want. Don't like it...oh well I guess.


mchamp  (D 32129)

Jan 24, 2013, 11:57 PM
Post #4 of 26 (9363 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Out of pure curiosity the following questions.......anyone know exactly what type of material they are using for the wing?

How large does it pack compared to that of a competition velo?

What sizes will they offer it in? Or will PD scale and build the size you request. Recommended WL?

Any idea what price point it will be at?

Ian Drennan perhaps could enlighten us all? Wink Or will everyone have to wait to find out until PIA 2013 in March or perhaps even later through their local CP guru?

The "Schumann wing planform technology" is essentially the tail being straight/flat therefore allowing it to create more lift at speeds? Or am I totally off and my googling skills just that shitty? hah


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 25, 2013, 3:43 AM
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

The deeper I got into CP competitions the more I was amazed seeing every day jumpers using no-shit competition canopies for every day jumping. Full RDS, small sized HMA and competition loaded canopies for their AFF jumps or camera jumps. That's like being a pizza delivery boy and driving a track car. Sure you *can* do it, but why put all that wear and why fly something that requires so much undivided attention on "real" skydives with other people?

If you're reading this and go "why does it matter?" Then you've probably never jumped something loaded north of 2.5 with a full RDS and tried to fly around traffic or dodge something due to an off heading opening. The speed that the canopy holds in just full flight is staggering.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Jan 25, 2013, 3:44 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 25, 2013, 6:28 AM
Post #6 of 26 (9095 views)
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Re: [davelepka] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Unless you can fly the shit out of a Comp Velo, why even bother with anything faster?

I've been saying that about (insert canopy type here) for years. The Peregrine takes the concept to new levels, but the problem remains the same.

Like the Velo in the early years, PD will be very careful who they release the Peregrine to. But just like the Velo, PD will not be able to control the sale of used units down the road.


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 6:59 AM
Post #7 of 26 (9057 views)
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Re: [davelepka] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if you make anything that can survive terminal, somebody somewhere is going to use for everyday jumping, no matter what you tell them. Build it so it won't survive, and then they'll listen.

From what I know of the openings, it's more likely that the pilot won't survive a terminal opening than the canopy! Wink

These things are built to fly, rather than to open nicely.


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 7:05 AM
Post #8 of 26 (9045 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are some thoughts (not facts, thoughts) based on what I have seen of them:

In reply to:
Out of pure curiosity the following questions.......anyone know exactly what type of material they are using for the wing?

It is thicker than regular ZP, not sure if it qualifies as full sail.

In reply to:
How large does it pack compared to that of a competition velo?


Based on the above I am sure it will pack larger than a VC.

In reply to:
What sizes will they offer it in? Or will PD scale and build the size you request. Recommended WL?

I know they are building them down to 67, and WLs above 3.0 are getting great results on this wing. With that and the target audience in mind, they may decide that 67 is small enough and just let the light guys/girls weight up with 30-40lbs of lead.

I really doubt that PD will build any size you want - that's not how they work. Things don't scale well and they're not going to let essentially untested wings out there.

In reply to:
Any idea what price point it will be at?


$$$$ !


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 25, 2013, 8:42 AM
Post #9 of 26 (8972 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Unless you can fly the shit out of a Comp Velo, why even bother with anything faster?

I've been saying that about (insert canopy type here) for years. The Peregrine takes the concept to new levels, but the problem remains the same.

Like the Velo in the early years, PD will be very careful who they release the Peregrine to. But just like the Velo, PD will not be able to control the sale of used units down the road.

if you never sell the canopy there can't be used ones out there.
by just letting the few competitors borrow or lease them you can control who jumps them.
car companies have been doing that with their high end cars.


(This post was edited by dqpacker on Jan 25, 2013, 8:43 AM)


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Jan 25, 2013, 11:08 AM
Post #10 of 26 (8887 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The deeper I got into CP competitions the more I was amazed seeing every day jumpers using no-shit competition canopies for every day jumping. Full RDS, small sized HMA and competition loaded canopies for their AFF jumps or camera jumps
Is it really possible to take an RDS to terminal?


yoink

Jan 25, 2013, 11:20 AM
Post #11 of 26 (8862 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

From the video that Ian put up the Peregrine looks unbelievably twitchy - Maybe 'Responsive' is a politer way of putting it.
Look at the guy coming in at 30 seconds - how fast and precise the canopy roll is with only a tiny amount of input.

Its movement reminds me of seeing a Eurofighter fly - something that is inherently unstable and needs 4 computers to control, but with a wicked performance envelope because of that design.

Going simply from that video it doesn't surprise me in the least that they're limiting who might have access to it. God knows the skydiving public wouldn't limit themselves.


What I want to know is what it's like for groundlaunching big mountains... Sly


(This post was edited by yoink on Jan 25, 2013, 11:27 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Jan 25, 2013, 12:41 PM
Post #12 of 26 (8810 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The deeper I got into CP competitions the more I was amazed seeing every day jumpers using no-shit competition canopies for every day jumping. Full RDS, small sized HMA and competition loaded canopies for their AFF jumps or camera jumps
Is it really possible to take an RDS to terminal?

Of course, why would you think not?


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 25, 2013, 3:14 PM
Post #13 of 26 (8715 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The deeper I got into CP competitions the more I was amazed seeing every day jumpers using no-shit competition canopies for every day jumping. Full RDS, small sized HMA and competition loaded canopies for their AFF jumps or camera jumps
Is it really possible to take an RDS to terminal?

Yes you can. A full RDS adds a level of complication that I personally believe is a bit much for "normal" skydiving, but running a partial RDS (slider only) is really popular for every day skydiving for good reason. It's faster than collapsing a standard slider and it gets it completely out of the way. I'm surprised that it isn't even more popular, especially for camera fliers.

My Velo always opened like ass at terminal with the full RDS, but really I didn't want to stress the HMA lines due to my exit weight/loading on that canopy with a terminal opening.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jan 25, 2013, 7:27 PM
Post #14 of 26 (8602 views)
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Re: [yoink] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
From the video that Ian put up the Peregrine looks unbelievably twitchy - Maybe 'Responsive' is a politer way of putting it.

yeah - incredibly responsive is the way I'd describe it. Think about moving in a direction, and you're going that way.

Quote:
Going simply from that video it doesn't surprise me in the least that they're limiting who might have access to it. God knows the skydiving public wouldn't limit themselves.

Wink

Stay tuned Smile


Dutton  (D 15542)

Jan 27, 2013, 1:05 AM
Post #15 of 26 (8284 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

I would now like to personally thank PD for being responsible enough to at least attempt to prevent some dickhead from buying something way over his or her head and killing me with it.

I think I wrote that right.


(This post was edited by Dutton on Jan 27, 2013, 1:06 AM)


jumper03  (D License)

Jan 27, 2013, 8:22 AM
Post #16 of 26 (8179 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
yeah - incredibly responsive is the way I'd describe it. Think about moving in a direction, and you're going that way.

Sweet! Windmiller keeps telling me to "think turn" instead of turning... Sounds like a solution here!!!

LaughLaughLaugh


wildcard451  (D License)

Jan 27, 2013, 5:40 PM
Post #17 of 26 (7996 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Moses -

If you have to ask if you can fly it, then you aren't ready to fly it. Simple as that.

/fuck I need to get recurrent.
//stupid shoulder.


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Jan 27, 2013, 11:28 PM
Post #18 of 26 (7899 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Also from what it sounds like this is by INVITATION only?

It's not a new concept. When the first really small Stilettos came out, 97's and such, you had to sign a specific waiver with PD to get one and if they did not know who you were or you did not come highly recommended by the dealer/sponsor/DZO/whomever, you were not actually going to get one.

Canopies like this should in fact be considered elite and yes, only certain people should be able to get their hands on one.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jan 28, 2013, 9:33 AM
Post #19 of 26 (7750 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally agree, TK. The GREAT majority of people jumping ANY crossbraced canopy don't have any real business doing so and would be way better off with a Sabre2 or a Spectre.


Luck  (D License)

Jan 31, 2013, 7:47 AM
Post #20 of 26 (7416 views)
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Re: [mchamp] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Velocity competition first came out, PD also stated not to do terminal jumps with it. Only made for sub-terminal deployments was stated in the mail.


EOCS  (C License)

Jan 31, 2013, 9:47 AM
Post #21 of 26 (7327 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Well i don't know about you guys but i know i need this canopy before i can bring out my mad skills. everything else is just too slow...


And will someone please teach me to swoop?


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Jan 31, 2013, 10:21 PM
Post #22 of 26 (7208 views)
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Re: PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Just curious, how could you make a canopy that's for subterminal only? I know you could do it by modifying the slider to say a bikini slider or something but someone could just replace that with another slider.

I've heard that the forces canopy pilots are subjecting their wings to are greater during the recovery arc than on opening, or maybe that was the risers and not the canopy. Either way I'm no expert.

What, will it tear in half or off the lines at terminal?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 1, 2013, 4:49 AM
Post #23 of 26 (7154 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Just curious, how could you make a canopy that's for subterminal only?

It's easy. Start with the thinnest lines you can find, and then build a wing that puts nice openings on the back burner, and long dives/swoops ahead of that.

When you build a canopy to the 'general public', you have a series of priorities and they are (in order) - it has to open, it has to open 'nice', it has to hold together, it has to fly well. You can see that if you re-arrnage that list, you end up with a product that's not good for business, but the list puts flying well at the bottom of the list.

So if you could shuffle that list a bit, and give up 'opening nice', you can make some trade-offs that will make it fly better, and in this case, that means swooping better. In any case, not taking a canopy to terminal will generally result in softer, more manageable openings.

In tersm of forces, I'm not sure if you can generate more force in a dive than on opening, but even if you could it would be more of a gradual increase of force, where an opening could introduce a 'shock load'. Beyond that, I would suggest that an opening is far more likely to go 'rouge' and spank the jumper (and the canopy), as compared to a swoop, where the loading will be fairly consistant, and 'smooth'.


beowulf  (C License)

Feb 1, 2013, 8:23 AM
Post #24 of 26 (7083 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of the CREW canopies are set up for sub terminal openings only. No deployment bag(diaper instead), mesh slider. The opening shock from a terminal deployment would be very painful.


(This post was edited by beowulf on Feb 1, 2013, 8:26 AM)


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Feb 1, 2013, 4:42 PM
Post #25 of 26 (6951 views)
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Re: [davelepka] PD new canopy "Peregrine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Dave, that makes sense.


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