Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Lap Parachute

 

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airotay  (D 16664)

Jan 15, 2008, 8:42 PM
Post #1 of 29 (3988 views)
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Lap Parachute Can't Post

I looked through the previous posts. Does anyone know of a DPE or Rigger out there with access to a Lap Parachute? This was milled over some time ago and was wondering if any thing new had come up??


skybeergodd

Jan 15, 2008, 9:32 PM
Post #2 of 29 (3948 views)
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Re: [airotay] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

probly the only person who would have one is Dave DeWolf....Look him up, He's pretty easy to find.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Jan 15, 2008, 10:46 PM
Post #3 of 29 (3926 views)
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Re: [skybeergodd] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
probly the only person who would have one is Dave DeWolf....Look him up, He's pretty easy to find.

I asked him a few months ago - he does not have one and is SURE that nobody alive does.


Unstable  (D 28930)

Jan 15, 2008, 11:24 PM
Post #4 of 29 (3914 views)
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Re: [airotay] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

  Correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't the lap-style parachute manufactured for a WWII style bucket seat? I'm pretty sure that this rating is obsolete....


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 16, 2008, 6:06 AM
Post #5 of 29 (3848 views)
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Re: [airotay] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been pursuing this some for awhile.

To unstable, lap parachutes were developed before WWII for photographers and other flight crew who didn't have room to sit on one or wear one on their back and the either the larger chest packs were in the way. They were essentially a seat pack flip forward over the shoulders with long risers to allow the pack to rest on the lap.

I have several references to them and even have what could be considered packing instructions with photos in a book.

I had thought that they were NOT made into WWII but I have since found references to them in WWII era publications.

SOOOOOOO, to me that raises the possiblility that there are some in museums somewhere that preserve WWII materials. I haven't started that search yet but would like to.

So, IF I found I rig in a museum, AND I have instructions (either the ones I have or some from some archives I've learned about in Kansas City) all I'd need is a way to get 20 supervised pack jobs and a practical.

Since the FAA offers the rating in their regs my aurguement is that they MUST supply a means to get it. Even though no living rigger has the rating that we know of and no DPRE has the rating and is authorized to give the test there should be SOME remedy to this lack of personel resources.

SO IF I can find a lap that I could borrow I plan on pressing the issue.

The other avenue is that the laps REALLY were just like a seat flipped forward over the head and the pack reversed on the risers. ANY manufacturer currently making a seat could make a lap. I'm not sure it would even need separate TSO testing! If you can go from an old wonder hog to a vector III or an old Mirage with a two pin reserve to a new G4 you ought to be able to flip a seat over and turn the container around!WinkCool

Anyway, this my windmill to chase. But I once I found out that laps were made during WWII it raised my hope that there are actually some around out there.Smile


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 16, 2008, 8:24 AM
Post #6 of 29 (3799 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

If you can go from an old wonder hog to a vector III or an old Mirage with a two pin reserve to a new G4 you ought to be able to flip a seat over and turn the container around!WinkCool

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

According to rumour, Bill Booth tried to submit a new TSO application - when he converted from two-pin Wonderhog to one-pin Vector. An FAA rep - from Atlanta - asked: "Does it use the same materials? Is it as strong? Is it placarded with the same airspeed and weight limitations? Does it contain the same canopies? Do the handles perform the same functions?"
Booth replied:"Yes, yes, yes."
And the FAA refused to issue a new TSO.

The bottom line is that written rules are nice, but as long as we keep the fatality rate low, the FAA does not want to be bothered with changing Federal Air Regulations related to parachutes.

It would be amusing to hear Bill Booth's side of the story ...


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 16, 2008, 10:18 AM
Post #7 of 29 (3744 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Old story. And I thought it WAS Booth's side of the story.

It's still wrong!Crazy


eguillen

Jan 20, 2013, 8:28 PM
Post #8 of 29 (3414 views)
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Re: [airotay] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Check out
http://www.parachuteshop.com/lap%20parachute.htm


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 20, 2013, 11:22 PM
Post #9 of 29 (3369 views)
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Re: [eguillen] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Made it Clicky!

http://www.parachuteshop.com/lap%20parachute.htm


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 22, 2013, 4:58 AM
Post #10 of 29 (3250 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a lap parachute Manufactured 2011. I have a lap rating issued March 2011, tested by FAA inspector. I hope my FAA inspector will add lap rating to my DPRE authorization in March. I have another rigger almost ready for lap test. I can supervise lap pack jobs for added rating now.


piisfish

Jan 22, 2013, 6:27 AM
Post #11 of 29 (3222 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Does that mean that there are now 2 lap parachutes ? Smile
Anybody jumped them ?


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 22, 2013, 1:52 PM
Post #12 of 29 (3140 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there are three. And other have claimed to have one. And ones like mine, new manufacture, one pin, civilian with Preserve I canopy may be available for purchase. Up to the manufacturer.

BTW packing mine was demonstrated at the 2011 PIA symposium.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 23, 2013, 9:05 PM
Post #13 of 29 (3024 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Just spoke with the airworthiness manager at my FISDO this afternoon. Found out my managing inspector retired. But, shortly after the two year anniversary of my getting my lap rating, March 2, 2013, I should have authority to test for the lap rating.CoolWinkTongue

Supervision and testing details to be worked out.


Premier donmayer  (D 2892)

Feb 3, 2013, 10:14 AM
Post #14 of 29 (2872 views)
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Re: [eguillen] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

I have an orginal LAP parachute
In reply to:
Don Mayer
DPRE


Andy9o8  (D License)

Feb 3, 2013, 9:28 PM
Post #15 of 29 (2797 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
shortly after the two year anniversary of my getting my lap rating, March 2, 2013, I should have authority to test for the lap rating.

Curious: what's the current demand for that?


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Feb 3, 2013, 9:28 PM)


ctrph8  (D License)

Feb 3, 2013, 11:13 PM
Post #16 of 29 (2769 views)
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Re: [donmayer] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have an orginal LAP parachute
In reply to:
Don Mayer
DPRE[/reply]


Really? If you do, could you post pictures here? I've only seen the grainy pictures that Irvin and Pointer's used.


piisfish

Feb 4, 2013, 1:00 AM
Post #17 of 29 (2760 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
shortly after the two year anniversary of my getting my lap rating, March 2, 2013, I should have authority to test for the lap rating.

Curious: what's the current demand for that?
my wild ass guess would be "not much", but you know, riggers are geeky in their own way Tongue , specially the men with a sewing machine fetish


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 4, 2013, 12:33 PM
Post #18 of 29 (2681 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
shortly after the two year anniversary of my getting my lap rating, March 2, 2013, I should have authority to test for the lap rating.

Curious: what's the current demand for that?
my wild ass guess would be "not much", but you know, riggers are geeky in their own way Tongue , specially the men with a sewing machine fetish

.......................................................................
Lap parachutes are relevant for Light Sport Aircraft and amateur-builts that have side-mounted joy-sticks (Rutan Long-Eze) or one control stick on the center-line (between two pilots) (Heintz Zodiac).

Because of the weight and bulk, few pilots will wear lap-type parachutes longer than Phase One flight testing. Phase One testing lasts 25 hours with certified engines (Lycoming), but can last 50 hours with non-certified engines (auto-conversions).

The challenge is to convince pilots to wear any type of parachute during Phase One.


piisfish

Feb 4, 2013, 1:06 PM
Post #19 of 29 (2673 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

if you manage to integrate an iPad support on the lap parachute, it will sell like chicken wings for Superbowl


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:34 PM
Post #20 of 29 (2626 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
shortly after the two year anniversary of my getting my lap rating, March 2, 2013, I should have authority to test for the lap rating.

Curious: what's the current demand for that?
my wild ass guess would be "not much", but you know, riggers are geeky in their OUR own way Tongue , specially the men with a sewing machine fetish

FIFY. Tongue


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 4, 2013, 5:36 PM
Post #21 of 29 (2629 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Lap parachutes are relevant for Light Sport Aircraft and amateur-builts that have side-mounted joy-sticks (Rutan Long-Eze) or one control stick on the center-line (between two pilots) (Heintz Zodiac).

Because of the weight and bulk, few pilots will wear lap-type parachutes longer than Phase One flight testing. Phase One testing lasts 25 hours with certified engines (Lycoming), but can last 50 hours with non-certified engines (auto-conversions).

The challenge is to convince pilots to wear any type of parachute during Phase One.

Ya gotta keep in mind, lots of those kits/designs aren't something that you could reasonably expect to bail out of, especially if a wing just fell off.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 5, 2013, 12:45 PM
Post #22 of 29 (2582 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Lap parachutes are relevant for Light Sport Aircraft and amateur-builts that have side-mounted joy-sticks (Rutan Long-Eze) or one control stick on the center-line (between two pilots) (Heintz Zodiac).

Because of the weight and bulk, few pilots will wear lap-type parachutes longer than Phase One flight testing. Phase One testing lasts 25 hours with certified engines (Lycoming), but can last 50 hours with non-certified engines (auto-conversions).

The challenge is to convince pilots to wear any type of parachute during Phase One.

.........................................................................

Ya gotta keep in mind, lots of those kits/designs aren't something that you could reasonably expect to bail out of, especially if a wing just fell off.

.....................................................................

Good point, though part of the planning process includes installing easily-discarded doors or canopies.

Also remember that a leading cause of accidents (among amateur-built airplanes) is loss of power. Some of those power loses are caused by fuel feed problems ... and some of those fuel feed problems are caused by fuel leaks ... and some of those fuel leaks lead to fires ... and sometimes the only solution to fires is bailing out on a parachute.

Make no mistake, PEPs are not a cure-all, they merely expand the number of options on a bad day.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Feb 16, 2013, 9:32 PM
Post #23 of 29 (2434 views)
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Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, authorization to test will be available about March 12.Cool


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 17, 2013, 11:58 AM
Post #24 of 29 (2387 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Terry,

Quote:
authorization to test

Well, what about the training? Tongue

JerryBaumchen


councilman24  (D 8631)

Feb 17, 2013, 3:37 PM
Post #25 of 29 (2340 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Lap Parachute [In reply to] Can't Post

Advertising not allowed in forums.Angelic More info to come in classifieds.

Of course training (and cost) will vary from the skydiver senior rigger that's never seen a round to a seat rigger that does pilot rigs all the time.


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