Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Main closing pin orientation

 


evan85  (C 41367)

Jan 16, 2013, 11:39 PM
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Main closing pin orientation Can't Post

I was recently looking into the closing-pin-piercing-the-bridle issue, and came across the recent Parachutist article on the topic (http://parachutistonline.com/...stry-bridle-response).

In that article, I noticed one interesting quote:
Quote:
Orientation of the closing pin. When the pin is packed in a frown orientation, rotation of the pin is away from the point. This is the orientation required by Mirage Systems.

Now, I had been taught to always make sure the pin was "smiling". But I jump a Mirage G4. Should I be turning my pin over so that it's "frowning"? Furthermore, is this actually better in terms of making it less likely that the pin pierces the bridle?


Freeflaw  (C License)

Jan 17, 2013, 12:27 AM
Post #2 of 12 (2295 views)
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Re: [evan85] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

Curved pins rotate before releasing, alining with the direction of the pc tug. The main pin protector flap is almost identical to the vector, wings, icon and others who use or have used the smiley method...so it shouldnt matter. Maybe there is some reason behind it given that they close left before right...call them and ask them. You might want to check out the alternate version for closing a vector. It was created to prevent pin pierce bridle mal.


(This post was edited by Freeflaw on Jan 17, 2013, 12:28 AM)


evan85  (C 41367)

Jan 17, 2013, 12:32 AM
Post #3 of 12 (2289 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Freeflaw, I was looking into UPT's alternate closing method but decided to keep this post to just the one topic to start Tongue

I e-mailed Mirage about both issues and I'll post their response when I get it


Empadinha  (D 32431)

Jan 17, 2013, 1:09 AM
Post #4 of 12 (2261 views)
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Re: [evan85] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was recently looking into the closing-pin-piercing-the-bridle issue, and came across the recent Parachutist article on the topic (http://parachutistonline.com/...stry-bridle-response).

In that article, I noticed one interesting quote:
Quote:
Orientation of the closing pin. When the pin is packed in a frown orientation, rotation of the pin is away from the point. This is the orientation required by Mirage Systems.

Now, I had been taught to always make sure the pin was "smiling". But I jump a Mirage G4. Should I be turning my pin over so that it's "frowning"? Furthermore, is this actually better in terms of making it less likely that the pin pierces the bridle?

I own a Wings W-5 and the "Natural" position of the pin (without any twists* and keeping the bridle window visible) is "frowning". My backup W-2 makes a smiley though.

*to the tape that links the pin to the bridle.

Cheers.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jan 17, 2013, 3:26 AM
Post #5 of 12 (2199 views)
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Re: [evan85] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have one to hand, but I think I remember seeing an Icon manual that had a frowning main pin. Don't know whether this was coincidence or Aerodyne expressing an opinion on pin orientation, though.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 17, 2013, 3:33 AM
Post #6 of 12 (2190 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It was created to prevent pin pierce bridle mal.

And here I was thinking that CRW dogs have been using that method for years!Crazy


mahonie10  (B License)

Jan 17, 2013, 4:30 AM
Post #7 of 12 (2154 views)
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Re: [evan85] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked the local rigger about the pin piercing issue and he pointed out to me that the way Mirage makes their bridles helps prevent piercing. Look at both sides of your bridle and you'll see the "grain" of the material is in a diffrent direction then the opposing side.

Disclaimer: I don't know shit! I could of misunderstood him. At this point ive been up for 20 hours and not sure if this makes sense!Crazy


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 17, 2013, 4:53 AM
Post #8 of 12 (2128 views)
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Re: [mahonie10] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I asked the local rigger about the pin piercing issue and he pointed out to me that the way Mirage makes their bridles helps prevent piercing. Look at both sides of your bridle and you'll see the "grain" of the material is in a diffrent direction then the opposing side.

Perhaps that's because they're different materials. Wink

One is square weave and the other I believe is binding tape. If you have a bridle made with square weave, it's much more rigid and packs a little thicker, the binding tape I believe isn't strong enough to resist the pin peircing. It's been a while since I did any research on it, perhaps someone could chime in with more current info.

ETA: Check this out http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4058055#4058055


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jan 17, 2013, 4:58 AM)


tsalnukt

Jan 17, 2013, 5:09 AM
Post #9 of 12 (2110 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

The alternative closing method was not just created to prevent this pin piercing thing. It has been around a very long time, probably at least as long as the racer has been around because this is how you close a Racer. At one time, believe it or not, lots and lots of people jumped Racers. 'Back in the old days' it was pretty normal for people to use the Racer Method to close their rigs for a variety of different reasons including: "I have been doing it this way for so long that I'm just used to it."

just saying


evan85  (C 41367)

Jan 17, 2013, 8:38 AM
Post #10 of 12 (2023 views)
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Re: [evan85] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the e-mail I sent to Mirage along with their response:

Quote:
My e-mail
I have a quick question about packing -- specifically about closing the main container. With all the talk about pins piercing bridles, I'm wondering what Mirage's position is on two things: (1) orientation of the closing pin -- "smiley", "frowny", vertical, etc.?; and (2) bridle routing -- should I route from the d-bag above the right (#4) side flap (as in the G4 manual I have) or does Mirage recommend or approve as an alternative routing under the right flap, which keeps the bridle further away from the pin and some say will help prevent the pin-piercing-bridle malfunction? Thanks so much!

Mirage's response
Hi, Evan.
The G4 manual shows the "approved" bridle routing. My personal opinion is that you should use this routing, but that's up to you. In reality, the main container, main risers, main pilot chute and bridle are not approved under the TSO. What that means is, you can do anything you feel brave enough to try. Some even close the 3 & 4 main flaps in reverse order.
There is no "official position" on closing pin orientation. My personal preference is to use "vertical" with the pin loop at the bottom, or "smiley" with the pin loop to the right.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 17, 2013, 4:03 PM
Post #11 of 12 (1901 views)
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Re: [tsalnukt] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

Wingsuiters have been using this "new" method for years as well; some call it the "French Tickler" as PdF has been recommending it for years. Perhaps this grew from the way Racers were/are closed?
It does make for a smoother opening at low speed, and reduces the potential for PCIT


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 17, 2013, 4:20 PM
Post #12 of 12 (1885 views)
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Re: [DSE] Main closing pin orientation [In reply to] Can't Post

I have also started using this method on my Infinity, and like the openings. One issue is when folks give you a pin check and they give you the WTF look. Depending on the orientation of the kill line window, it might make confirming the pilot chute is cocked at little more difficult. If you use method that Brian Germain suggests on folding the PC, there is no way you can fold the PC if it is not cocked.



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