Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
All costs of owning gear vs. renting

 

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rss_v

Jan 9, 2013, 1:49 PM
Post #1 of 43 (3502 views)
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All costs of owning gear vs. renting Can't Post

Each time I jump rental gear it costs me 10.

I'm trying to work out how much owning a rig would cost me per year to decide where the break-even point is, i.e. how many jumps I would have to make in a year for it be worthwhile to own rather than rent. This is very cheap gear and I don't think there will be significant depreciation at this point. In fact the current owner will be making a profit in this sale!

So far I can only come up with:

> Repacks, two at 35 = 70
> Lost interest on money - 35 (depends on your interest rate)
> Spare stow bungees... etc? 10


I must be missing something...?

I don't expect to make more than 30 jumps in 2013, so basically if the rig costs me <300 per year in "running costs" then it will be worth me having it. I realise there are various non-directly-financial pros and cons to owning or hiring, but they're for me to make a subjective decision on and can't be easily compared.


Thanks,


(This post was edited by rss_v on Jan 9, 2013, 2:51 PM)


frontloop33

Jan 9, 2013, 2:18 PM
Post #2 of 43 (3446 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking for myself:
I've bought a new rig for about 6.000
So far I've done 173 jumps, so it's about 35 per jump at the moment.

If I do 100 jumps per year and I can use the rig for 10 years (usually a lot more!) it is 1000 jumps and 6.000 for the rig. I have to add about 150 Euro per year for maintenance.
So it will be about 7,50 per jump.

If I can use it for 15 years (and 1500 jumps) it will be 5,50 per jump.


rss_v

Jan 9, 2013, 2:22 PM
Post #3 of 43 (3441 views)
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Re: [frontloop33] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Speaking for myself:
I've bought a new rig for about 6.000
So far I've done 173 jumps, so it's about 35 per jump at the moment.

If I do 100 jumps per year and I can use the rig for 10 years (usually a lot more!) it is 1000 jumps and 6.000 for the rig. I have to add about 150 Euro per year for maintenance.
So it will be about 7,50 per jump.

If I can use it for 15 years (and 1500 jumps) it will be 5,50 per jump.

What maintenance are you talking about, in particular?


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 9, 2013, 2:49 PM
Post #4 of 43 (3408 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

I learned this over 35 years ago...
Skydiving costs all the money you now have and 1/2 your paychecks for the rest of your life.

Go make a skydive!Smile


Krip  (Student)

Jan 9, 2013, 3:22 PM
Post #5 of 43 (3377 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I learned this over 35 years ago...
Skydiving costs all the money you now have and 1/2 your paychecks for the rest of your life.

Go make a skydive!Smile


Or use a tunnelWink

Lots of plus's and of course some minus''sWink

Think outside the box.Cool


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 9, 2013, 3:32 PM
Post #6 of 43 (3365 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What maintenance are you talking about, in particular?

new risers, new lines, patches on the main, replacing the BOC, replacing the main pilot chute, the odd sewing job...


But, since you claim you'll only do 30 jump a year, it's a whole different rational.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 9, 2013, 3:47 PM
Post #7 of 43 (3345 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Each time I jump rental gear it costs me 10.

I'm trying to work out how much owning a rig would cost me per year to decide where the break-even point is, i.e. how many jumps I would have to make in a year for it be worthwhile to own rather than rent. This is very cheap gear and I don't think there will be significant depreciation at this point. In fact the current owner will be making a profit in this sale!

So far I can only come up with:

> Repacks, two at 35 = 70
> Lost interest on money - 35 (depends on your interest rate)
> Spare stow bungees... etc? 10


I must be missing something...?

I don't expect to make more than 30 jumps in 2013, so basically if the rig costs me <300 per year in "running costs" then it will be worth me having it. I realise there are various non-directly-financial pros and cons to owning or hiring, but they're for me to make a subjective decision on and can't be easily compared.


Thanks,

Don't forget about the AAD. A CYPRES has depreciation of about $100/year and maintenance costs of about $40/year. This is the same regardless of jumps (unless you do a lot more jumps than you say)

Vigils have a different cost, I don't know that offhand.

And you mentioned the "non-directly-financial" stuff.
For me, owning my own rig is worth it. It's mine, I'm the only one who jumps it (mostly), I don't have to worry about which rental rig I get, I jump the same canopy each time.


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 9, 2013, 4:06 PM
Post #8 of 43 (3322 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
For me, owning my own rig is worth it. It's mine, I'm the only one who jumps it (mostly), I don't have to worry about which rental rig I get, I jump the same canopy each time.

This.

I don't have to worry about whether there will be rental gear available that is suitable for me.

I don't have to fight with anyone else over getting to use the gear that day.

I know exactly how it's been cared for and maintained.

I like owning my own gear so much that after 7 years in the sport, I got a second rig. My two setups are almost identical; other than the container. Main/reserve/AAD are identical, so I can put either rig on and know what to expect without having to think about it (though of course the newer one that was custom-built for me will be much more comfortable!). Laugh

I've found that buying/owning used gear has made good financial sense for me relative to renting, too. I've sold two of my main canopies, one AAD, and one reserve, and they've all held their value really well. Of course, I bought them all used (with the exception of the AAD) at a fair price, and they were all components that were still popular and in demand when I sold them. Of course, the components I have now that I bought new I expect to take more of a hit on if / when I sell them, but I waited to buy them till I was at a point where I was pretty sure I'd jump the same stuff for a long time so I can wring out as much value as possible.


wasatchrider

Jan 9, 2013, 4:12 PM
Post #9 of 43 (3314 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Each time I jump rental gear it costs me 10.

I'm trying to work out how much owning a rig would cost me per year to decide where the break-even point is, i.e. how many jumps I would have to make in a year for it be worthwhile to own rather than rent. This is very cheap gear and I don't think there will be significant depreciation at this point. In fact the current owner will be making a profit in this sale!

So far I can only come up with:

> Repacks, two at 35 = 70
> Lost interest on money - 35 (depends on your interest rate)
> Spare stow bungees... etc? 10


I must be missing something...?

I don't expect to make more than 30 jumps in 2013, so basically if the rig costs me <300 per year in "running costs" then it will be worth me having it. I realise there are various non-directly-financial pros and cons to owning or hiring, but they're for me to make a subjective decision on and can't be easily compared.


Thanks,

Don't forget about the AAD. A CYPRES has depreciation of about $100/year and maintenance costs of about $40/year. This is the same regardless of jumps (unless you do a lot more jumps than you say)

Vigils have a different cost, I don't know that offhand.

And you mentioned the "non-directly-financial" stuff.
For me, owning my own rig is worth it. It's mine, I'm the only one who jumps it (mostly), I don't have to worry about which rental rig I get, I jump the same canopy each time.
unless you dont use one then you pay nothing


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 9, 2013, 4:24 PM
Post #10 of 43 (3297 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought my first rig before I had 5 jumps and made my first freefall on it. (1980) I bought my second rig a year later. Both used. (still have both, one retired and one nobody wants to jump but airworthy) I bought my first custom rig another year later.

I have three zp primary rigs, a bigger F-111 rig, and a crew rig plus at pieces for five other airworthy rigs (some conventional) and assorted other pieces parts.

I've only bought 2 custom and 2 off the rack new H/C's over the years. Plus 5 or 6 used rigs.

I can't imagine the idea of not having control of my own equipment. Both having it available, know what it is and how it flies as well has how it's been maintained.

Of course when I bought these I was making more than 30 jumps a year.Crazy

But I'm a pack rat.Wink


babz  (C 107663)

Jan 10, 2013, 2:14 AM
Post #11 of 43 (3193 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

One other thing to factor in is whether your 30 jumps per year is where you want to stick at - or is this limited by availability of kit hire.

If we stick down the route that you're doing 30 jumps a year you're splashing 300 on kit hire.

For those jump numbers I doubt you're looking at a brand new rig, so say 2,500 for a second hand rig with a couple of years left on rig.

So costs for this rig per year:
Repacks - 70/80
Bungees - 5 for a big bag / free depending where you jump
Cypres maitanance - 42.50 (based on 170 service cost split over 4 years)
General maintenance of gear - Hard to say, 50 a year on older gear?

So you're looking at around 180 ish to keep a rig in the air over the year. Obviously varies depending on the rig / no of jumps.

At the end of a couple of years you should still be able to sell the gear for a reasonable return as second hand gear appears to be retaining its value quite well in the UK for close to what you paid for it.


potatoman  (Student)

Jan 10, 2013, 2:41 AM
Post #12 of 43 (3175 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Apart from the Pros/Cons of the rental against owning, here is the low down, and from new gear, posted in $.(I just grabbed prices from the web as they popped up, you should enter your own currency and pricing, and new versus second hand)

AAD - 1400
Main 2000
Harness 2800
Reserve 1400

Fixed Totals - 7600 over 20 years = 380 per annum.
Reserve repacks 2 per annum = X

You pack your main yourself, thenit would cost you 380+x per annum, and no return after 20 years, apart from ornamental value. Or, 31 per month, plus X every 6 months.

Other little things, but that is dependant on how you look after your gear, new lineset, canopy patch, might loose your canopy in a cutaway, handles, etc. with your 30odd jumps per year, you will need a new lineset only after 20years, so exclude that.

If you jump 30 jumps per year, financially, you should rent.

I suggest you jump more, then automatically it would become viable to get your own gear. Simple.


EOCS  (C License)

Jan 10, 2013, 4:34 AM
Post #13 of 43 (3146 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
For me, owning my own rig is worth it. It's mine, I'm the only one who jumps it (mostly), I don't have to worry about which rental rig I get, I jump the same canopy each time.

This.

I don't have to worry about whether there will be rental gear available that is suitable for me.

I don't have to fight with anyone else over getting to use the gear that day.

I know exactly how it's been cared for and maintained.

I like owning my own gear so much that after 7 years in the sport, I got a second rig. My two setups are almost identical; other than the container. Main/reserve/AAD are identical, so I can put either rig on and know what to expect without having to think about it (though of course the newer one that was custom-built for me will be much more comfortable!). Laugh

I've found that buying/owning used gear has made good financial sense for me relative to renting, too. I've sold two of my main canopies, one AAD, and one reserve, and they've all held their value really well. Of course, I bought them all used (with the exception of the AAD) at a fair price, and they were all components that were still popular and in demand when I sold them. Of course, the components I have now that I bought new I expect to take more of a hit on if / when I sell them, but I waited to buy them till I was at a point where I was pretty sure I'd jump the same stuff for a long time so I can wring out as much value as possible.

I totally agree. The first year i started i was considering not getting my own stuff for a few years and just jumping our rentals but then someone packed me a lineover which ofc led to a cutaway. After that i decided right there and then that i would have my own gear (even if its used and old but still in great condition) so i always know who packed it and where its been. That fact for me is priceless.


rss_v

Jan 10, 2013, 4:36 AM
Post #14 of 43 (3144 views)
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Re: [babz] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the replies. As I mentioned, I'd be getting a cheap second-hand rig so I'm ignoring depreciation as it will be minimal or zero.

So there are no other definite costs than repacks, it seems? In that case I should indeed buy, because if I make only ten jumps in a year I'd break even.

In reply to:
One other thing to factor in is whether your 30 jumps per year is where you want to stick at - or is this limited by availability of kit hire.

That's pretty much all I'm interested in doing. When I go to the DZ and do 2-4 jumps in a day that's enough and I don't really feel like going again for at least a month, often longer. I usually end up going back after six weeks mainly just to stay current. Skydiving is basically just a minor hobby for me (thank goodness) and I don't have any wish to make more than about ten visits to the DZ per year.


wmw999  (D 6296)

Jan 10, 2013, 4:45 AM
Post #15 of 43 (3132 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

There are parts of equipment that wear out and should be replaced periodically. They include lines, risers, soft links (if you have them), and pilot chute. However, they take hundreds of jumps to deteriorate -- it's a function of jumps and not time, and there is generally some leeway.

One of the biggest advantages of owning your own gear is that you become more familiar with parachute equipment, and knowledge is power and safety in this sport.

Wendy P.


Deci  (D 1046)

Jan 10, 2013, 5:53 AM
Post #16 of 43 (3103 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Don't forget about the AAD. A CYPRES has depreciation of about $100/year and maintenance costs of about $40/year. This is the same regardless of jumps (unless you do a lot more jumps than you say)

Vigils have a different cost, I don't know that offhand.

I've got a cost breakdown for both Cypres and Vigil at the end of this blog post:

http://bard.ca/...uy-cypress-or-vigil/


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 11, 2013, 9:23 AM
Post #17 of 43 (2904 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Main rig...
Backup rig...
CRW rig...
2nd CRW rig (because CRW is no fun aloneTongue)...
Multiple jumpsuits...
Camera Equipment...

Let's just say, you're going to need a second income. Cool


rss_v

Jan 12, 2013, 2:05 AM
Post #18 of 43 (2804 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate the replies but 90% are completely missing the point. What I'm interested in is how much money it costs to maintain a rig per year, excluding depreciation (i.e. the loss made between your purchase price and eventual sale price).


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 12, 2013, 6:45 AM
Post #19 of 43 (2765 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What I'm interested in is how much money it costs to maintain a rig per year

The cost of maintaining gear is not fixed. It depends on how often it's jumped, how it's treated, the environment it's jumped in, the options you choose to install, etc.

Having your own gear, under your control, so that you know how it's treated and maintained and exactly where all your handles are... now that's priceless.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jan 12, 2013, 6:49 AM
Post #20 of 43 (2761 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

One way to look at rig maintence costs:

1. Reserve repacks (as discussed above)
2. AAD maintence (as discussed above) [don't forget to include shipping cost].
3. Main reline @ $____ per ____ jumps.
4. Replace kill line in bridle (or replace bridle (including kill line) and PC) @ $____ per ____ jumps.
5. Wash harness/container @ $______ per _____ jumps.
6. POTENTIAL replacement of main canopy, cutaway handle/cables, reserve ripcord, free bag/PC, safety stow following a cutaway.
7. Allowance for unspecified wear which may require repair: leg strap wear or landing damage, chest strap wear, damage to rig from obstacle landing, etc.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 12, 2013, 6:56 AM
Post #21 of 43 (2759 views)
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Re: [rss_v] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
As I mentioned, I'd be getting a cheap second-hand rig

That's a factor. Would it include an AAD? That would increase both the purchase and maintenance costs. If it would not include an ADD, but the rental gear does (as most does), that a factor to consider as well. What's the value of having an AAD in a rig you rent? Being a low time, low currency jumper, I would suggest it's pretty high.

What you have to think about is that when you rent, you get a rig with a modern canopy, AAD, and one that someone else pays to maintain. It's a fixed cost for a known level of equipment.

When you buy a cheap second-hand rig, you take away the AAD, possibly the quality of the components, and you take on the costs of unexpected maintenance or loss. Generally, if you rent a packed rig, you are not responsible for loss in the case of a cutaway and lost canopies, freebags, or handles. If you own your own rig, regardless of who packed it, you're paying for anything that gets lost.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you posted several times asking about very cheap rigs? F-111 canopies, and 20 year old containers/reserves? If that's the case, just keep renting. If the staight costs are a break even for 30 jumps per year, you're getting a better rig with less financial risk by renting. Even if it costs more, consider the equipment you get to jump (the AAD) and the truly 'fixed' costs of renting (no surprise maintenace, no lost parts after a cutaway, and no hassles droppping off/picking up from a rigger for reserve repacks), and consider the value of all those things. If you spent another $100 or $200 per year renting gear, are all of those benefits worth it? I think so.


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 12, 2013, 3:00 PM
Post #22 of 43 (2714 views)
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Re: [davelepka] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Generally, if you rent a packed rig, you are not responsible for loss in the case of a cutaway and lost canopies, freebags, or handles.

I've never seen a rental agreement for a licensed jumper that didn't hold the jumper responsible for lost or damaged gear, Dave.


rss_v

Jan 13, 2013, 3:30 AM
Post #23 of 43 (2633 views)
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Re: [labrys] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've never seen a rental agreement for a licensed jumper that didn't hold the jumper responsible for lost or damaged gear, Dave.

I've never seen a rental agreement!


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 13, 2013, 5:51 AM
Post #24 of 43 (2597 views)
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Re: [labrys] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've never seen a rental agreement for a licensed jumper that didn't hold the jumper responsible for lost or damaged gear, Dave.

I'll echo what the OP said, and add that I also have never seen a rental agreement. In all fairness, I haven't rented gear since my first year in the sport, so that might be a factor.

In an effort not to derail this thread any further, because I know this issue hes been hashed out elsewhere on DZ.com, I'll add that in the case that the DZ does not hold you responsible, that would be an additional 'plus' to renting gear in terms of financial liability. In that case that they do, then that issue would be a wash when compared to gear ownership. In any case, it would be wise to look into that issue before renting any equipment, just so you know the policy beforehand.

Good catch, Kelly.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 13, 2013, 9:57 AM
Post #25 of 43 (2542 views)
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Re: [davelepka] All costs of owning gear vs. renting [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know where the 'comfort factor' would fit into the equation...but as someone that's rented & borrowed gear all over the world I gotta say there IS a bit of a lowered stress level when I strap MY rig on as opposed to one unfamiliar.


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