Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
New Tunnel In New York

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

FlyNY

Jan 3, 2013, 1:34 PM
Post #1 of 31 (3420 views)
Shortcut
New Tunnel In New York Can't Post

Moderator's note: in favor of contributing to the greater good of skydivers in the NY area, the thread stays. Please be aware that the link below, in addition to general information about the tunnel, contains a solicitation for investment of start-up capital in exchange for tunnel flight discounts. Investments are made at your own risk. General conversations about the business investment opportunity are OK; individual transactions are not. I have some friendly advice of my own, posted in a reply below. - - slotperfect

A new wind tunnel is in the works for New York City!

http://www.FlyNY.net

Please help spread the word!


(This post was edited by slotperfect on Jan 6, 2013, 11:03 AM)


skinnay

Jan 3, 2013, 4:45 PM
Post #2 of 31 (3362 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

1.2 mil is about enough to get you a one bedroom apartment in NYC. And no where near what you will need to build a tunnel. Offering 5 minutes a day for life for $5000 is proof your business model is complete is garbage. But good luck with your fantasy bro!


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Jan 3, 2013, 5:53 PM
Post #3 of 31 (3349 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL! 1.2 mill won't even break ground in NYC. I can put you in contact with a guy in Nigeria who will send you a very large check for more than you're asking. All you need to do is send him a check for the extra money he sent. Sound good?


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 3, 2013, 10:31 PM
Post #4 of 31 (3320 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Per your link:
Our Pledge To You
Every dollar contributed through this campaign will go toward funding the FlyNY project.
If, for any reason, we are unable to go forward with the project, every contribution at and above the $250 level will be refunded pro rata.

So your gonna keep my $100 if this does nothing...um, no thanks.


Bignugget  (A License)

Jan 3, 2013, 11:12 PM
Post #5 of 31 (3315 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Well if I understand the site correctly. You don't actually lose any money until they raise the 1.2 million in pledges. When that happens I guess they get the 1.2 million and all the pledges get cashed in. Maybe what he means is that after that if they can't get going the people pledging over $250 will get their money back.....but either way the site says nothing happens for another 1.99 million dollars in pledges I think your $100 is safe.


jumpnfrek

Jan 4, 2013, 7:11 AM
Post #6 of 31 (3266 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

It is amazing how cynical people can be when someone is putting everything on the line to start an Indoor Skydiving attraction and how many Monday morning ôexpertsö think they have this business figured out. The platform this guy is using is a crowd funding site, which now allows people to help a startup company by contributing small amounts of money. The Jobs Act now allows for the non rich to help these companies through these sites. If his goal of 1.2 mil is not met he gets nothing and contributors get charged nothing. The 1.2 mil is obviously not the total amount he needs, it may be the amount he needs to secure a loan or finish his funding that may already be in place. The simple fact is that these tunnels are not geared toward skydivers; the majority of the revenue comes from the existing public who wants the thrill but do not have the balls to jump. Sorry to tell you, but these tunnels are not dependant on you the skydiving community as much as you would like them to be.
Rather than criticize the man or any other for that matter for trying to get one started, help them by spreading the word supporting them, and soon you may find a tunnel in your area so you can show off your ôSky God Mentalityö.


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 8:56 AM
Post #7 of 31 (3225 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you jumpnfrek for your help and your vote of confidence! And thanks to everyone else for your comments. While they are negative, they are helpful in letting us know what deters people from contributing to the cause.

To answer your questions:

* 1.2 Million is definitely not enough to build a tunnel. It is only 12% of the total project cost.

* 1.2 Million is the bare minimum fundraising goal. If that goal is not met, not a single credit card is charged and the entrepreneur gets nothing. However, the fundraise is not limited to 1.2 Million. There is no limit to how high it can go before the allotted times runs out.

* The remainder of the money will come from loans and private investments.

* 5 minutes a day for life for a $5000 investment is a fair reward for someone willing to make a substantial investment in a start up business.

* The commitment to refund investments of over $250 was made on the assumption that there would be thousands of smaller investments and fewer large ones. If the 1.2 Million goal is not reached, no one will be charged. But if the goal is reached and the business cannot go forward (for whatever reason) refunds would have to be made manually. It would be a daunting task to refund tens of thousands of small contributions. But perhaps we will drop that threshold down to $100.

* Please understand that even if ultimately the business does not materialize, there will be huge start up expenses regardless. The purpose of this fundraise is to raise start up funds. The way crowd funding works is people contribute money to help a business take off, realizing that it may not, and they risk losing their contribution. That is why the rewards offered are so generous.

* Jumpnfrek is absolutely right in that the bulk of the revenue will come from non-skydivers. Folks who are too afraid to jump out of an airplane, and just want a fun, safe ride. HOWEVER, no one appreciates these tunnels more than skydivers, who crave tunnel time to hone their free fall skills. That is why we're appealing to the skydiver community for contributions and investments. Tunnel time will be hugely discounted for skydivers as opposed to first time flyers. The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers. Large blocks of time will be set aside for skydivers only.

* And to address all concerns of losing money or investing large sums into something that you feel may never materialize, we have created the $10 and $20 dollar levels of contribution. By contributing $10 you risk nothing, yet you're making a huge difference and helping bring a much needed and overdue wind tunnel to the area. If every skydiver in the area contributed as little as $10, we'd be in great shape.

* So please keep the comments coming (both positive and negative). Your criticism will help us improve the campaign. AND PLEASE TAKE A CHANCE AND PITCH IN $10 (or more) AND HELP US SPREAD THE WORD.

Thank you!
FlyNY


skinnay

Jan 4, 2013, 9:24 AM
Post #8 of 31 (3210 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jumpnfrek] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Since you're an expert, can you please explain how he will turn a profit when 200 people contribute $5000 and then fly 5 minutes each for life? If you can't do the math, he's obligated to run the tunnel for free for more than 16 hours a day for life.

And yes, 1.2mil might not be the total amount needed, but its so far from what the cost would be that its obvious he has no real backers. Imagine someone saying "I'm almost done building a space ship but just need $1000 more dollars please help me!".

And aside from all that, the guy has no details at all, just stolen photos, and no credentials as a tunnel flyer. If you have real info as to why this isn't a scam or joke, I'd love to hear it.


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 9:31 AM
Post #9 of 31 (3207 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear skinnay,

The business plan is three years in the making. The research is extensive and thorough and the numbers work.

As mentioned in our previous post, 1.2 Million is only 12% of the total project cost. The remainder will come from private investments and loans.

The videos and photos are all obtained from tunnel manufacturers and are all used with explicit permission. None are stolen.

The founder is an experienced skydiver and tunnel flyer (who has always found the skydiving community to be very friendly and supportive).

FlyNY


skinnay

Jan 4, 2013, 10:06 AM
Post #10 of 31 (3198 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd be curious to know the following:

Can you provide any details on the business plan?

What exact area are you looking to build the tunnel in and has land been purchased?

Do you have permits to build the tunnel? How have you resolved issues with the city and noise?

What are the specs on the tunnel?

Are you franchising an existing tunnel or starting from scratch?

can you provide details or credentials of the members involved?


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 10:16 AM
Post #11 of 31 (3192 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of the information you are asking for is proprietary and will not be openly disclosed in a public forum, but is readily available to serious investors who sign a non-disclosure and non-compete agreement. But this level of information is not necessary to pitch in $10-$20.


skinnay

Jan 4, 2013, 10:26 AM
Post #12 of 31 (3183 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

So you can't even tell us whether its a 10/12/14 foot tunnel? or who you're franchising from? this is 'proprietary'??

You say "the numbers work", but can you explain how you intend to find real estate and finance construction on this budget? land big enough for a tunnel will cost you at least 30 million. Or how you are gonna fly 200 people for 5 minutes for free for life?

I would love to have this explained :)


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 10:38 AM
Post #13 of 31 (3174 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

"The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers." That automatically means at least a 14 foot tunnel.

The rest of the information is confidential at this time.


skinnay

Jan 4, 2013, 11:02 AM
Post #14 of 31 (3156 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers." That automatically means at least a 14 foot tunnel.

The rest of the information is confidential at this time.

Oh, I'm sorry I was not able to guess the specs of your tunnel from "geared towards skydivers" haha.

It doesn't seem like you know anything about tunnels or have any plan to actually build this. So I assume this is just a scam to walk away with the money if you get it over the threshold.


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 11:06 AM
Post #15 of 31 (3153 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your input.


skinnay

Jan 4, 2013, 11:11 AM
Post #16 of 31 (3144 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Anytime bro.


michalm21  (Student)

Jan 4, 2013, 11:33 AM
Post #17 of 31 (3129 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anytime bro.

I agree. 10Mil in NYC sounds like a scam, unless it's NJ or Long Island/Upstate.


FlyNY

Jan 4, 2013, 11:43 AM
Post #18 of 31 (3118 views)
Shortcut
Re: [michalm21] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Please do some research before you label someone's three year long project and dream "a scam".

You can all risk $10-$20 and possibly have a 14-foot recirculating tunnel to play in day and night, year-round, in all weather, or you can label it "a scam" and keep driving to New Hampshire and hibernating in the winter.


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 4, 2013, 11:50 AM
Post #19 of 31 (3110 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please do some research before you label someone's three year long project and dream "a scam".

You can all risk $10-$20 and possibly have a 14-foot recirculating tunnel to play in day and night, year-round, in all weather, or you can label it "a scam" and keep driving to New Hampshire and hibernating in the winter.

Or I could get some more info and then consider whether to send money thereby mitigating some of the "risk." And hopefully not be insulted by the person seeking money.

In all likelihood I'm just going to drive an hour to Orlando like I always do and feel somewhat bad for my northern brothers for having to put up with this boooolshit.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jan 4, 2013, 11:54 AM
Post #20 of 31 (3104 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, here's an opinion from someone who lives about as far away from NY as possible while still being in the continental US (and thus I've got no dog in this fight - I already have a tunnel 20 minutes down the road and several more within a 2-hour flight, so it's not an investment that makes any sense for me, personally).

Your "sweet spot" is probably not going to be the person who throws you 10-20 bucks, but the person who is willing to send you somewhere between $100-$1000. Someone who lives in the area who has a serious interest in a tunnel coming to town, but who might be a little more thoughtful about throwing money into a crowd-sourced investment than would someone who parts with $10-$20.

If I were in the area and wanted to support you, I'd want some more info if I were going to give you $100 or $500 or $1000. But I probably wouldn't want to go through the hassle of signing a non-disclosure and non-compete agreement.

Your attitude on this site and the vagueness with which you describe the project on the site is likely to alienate just that demographic you would do well to cultivate - the person with enough disposable income to throw you a couple hundred bucks. Your approach seems to be saying that "either you're willing to give us $10 or $20 with no information because that's such a tiny amount to risk OR you're a big-time, serious, five- or six-figure investor and we'll show you the goods." (And you probably already know there's better ways to cultivate the big-time, serious investors than a crowdsourcing site).

Take care of the folks in the middle or it's going to take you an awful long time to hit $1.2 million using a crowd-sourcing approach.




Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Jan 6, 2013, 11:25 AM
Post #22 of 31 (2929 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a few points of friendly advice for you:

-Complete your profile and add your real name and position in the company to your signature line. It will lend credibility to your posts here and increase the overall comfort level of the readers. Speaking for myself, if I am risking money by pledging it to you I want to know who is talking.
-Post photo copyrights on your website photos if you own them; if you don't, be sure they are being used with permission and add a photo credit to each one. There are a lot of professional photographers in this online community that have had their intellectual property stolen and used for someone else's gain.
-Update your website to include details for frequent tunnel flyers and/or skydivers. Right now the information there is oriented 90/10 recreation/training or fun flyer/skydiver. The lack of details for this audience have quite fairly been called "vague." Among us are tunnel staff, professional skydivers, competitors, and others with a great deal of tunnel experience and knowledge of various tunnels already available and the companies that build/run them. I personally have flown in six tunnels and train/coach regularly in two of them. The information provided tells me little or nothing about the size, power, general planned location or features. Based upon the information provided I would not risk $250 if I lived in your area, even though I can afford to.
-Check out other new tunnel threads in thus forum to see what information thus audience is used to seeing when such announcements are made. Your business plan is yours do do with as you choose - I don't expect you to post it here - but I think people are fair in their assessment that more details are warranted if you expect a favorable response and want to avoid being constantly defensive here.

Good luck with your effort.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 7, 2013, 4:39 AM
Post #23 of 31 (2809 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skinnay] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
can you please explain how he will turn a profit when 200 people contribute $5000 and then fly 5 minutes each for life? If you can't do the math, he's obligated to run the tunnel for free for more than 16 hours a day for life.

Get real. Do you really think that someone with $5000 to invest in a 'possible' tunnel is also going to have the time to go to the tunnel and fly 5 minutes every day?

Do you really think that 200 such people exist, and that all of them are going to camp out at the tunnel and soak up their 5 min every single day?

Did you read the fine print, where they say that any 'free' time is only available during 'off peak' hours? Are there 16 'off peak' hours every day?

I'm as skepitcal as the next guy, but it seems like you're shitting all over this guy's plan for no reason. 1.2 mil is not enough for a tunnel anywhere, but it is enough to get the attention of investors with deeper pockets. A good business plan and 10% of the costs up-front go a long way in terms of serious fund raising.

Is 10 or 12 mil enough? Who knows, but what I do know is that NYC is likely to be a gold mine if you can get a tunnel in place. Population density is off the charts, tourism is off the charts, and shit costs a fortune there so you can charge premium dollars.


FlyNY

Jan 11, 2013, 10:40 AM
Post #24 of 31 (2611 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you all! We have reached the first milestone - 1% of our massive fundraising goal! Please tell your friends - www.FlyNY.net

Follow on Twitter @FlyNYTunnel


jfpgp

Jan 18, 2013, 3:29 PM
Post #25 of 31 (2400 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyNY] New Tunnel In New York [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I don't know him personally, I do know that he has been seriously invested in starting a wind tunnel in NY for some time. If you go to the link, it will give his name.
Obviously the big investments would only be from people who live very close by, and have schedules that allow for "non-peak hours", so it's unlikely that you'd have more than a few.

I don't know if the group investor thing will work, but it's worth a shot. And there's some good constructive criticism from slot perfect there


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Wind Tunnels

 


Search for (options)