Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
No age restriction

 


Kirkf22

Jan 1, 2013, 4:11 PM
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I'm turning 17 in may and want to go skydiving on my birthday. I was wondering if someone could help me find a play near where I love that allows 17 year olds to skydive with parent consent. I live in west Palm Beach Florida area code 33412. Thanks!


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 1, 2013, 4:43 PM
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I believe parents consent really doesn't come into it in the states. What is important is the legal age of consent to be apply to sign the waiver and sign your rights away. Your parents can't legally sign your rights and if your not of the age of consent then you can't either.


michaelmullins  (D 1643)

Jan 1, 2013, 6:43 PM
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In reply to:
I'm turning 17 in may and want to go skydiving on my birthday. I was wondering if someone could help me find a play near where I love that allows 17 year olds to skydive with parent consent. I live in west Palm Beach Florida area code 33412. Thanks!

West Tennessee Skdiving http://www.SkydiveKingAir.com


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Jan 1, 2013, 11:32 PM
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I just noticed that in the SIM the other day while looking for something else. It's 18 years of age, or 16 years of age with notarized parental or guardian consent. (Section 2-1 subsection D.) Ha-ha!

Only DZ I know in Florida is Deland, and mostly just because everyone's always talking about them here. Dunno if you could find one closer to West Palm Beach or not. Anywhoo, look around, find someone and be sure to call ahead to make sure they'll let you jump there.

Are you planning to do a tandem or training for solo?

I bought my sister and niece some tunnel time and tandem tickets while they were visiting for my sister's Birthday. I kind of liked easing them into it with the wind tunnel time. So if you're heading up toward Orlando for you jump anyway, it could be fun to pick up 5 minutes or so of tunnel time or do a family thing with a bigger block, then go do a tandem that same day or the next one. I reckon that'd be fun beyond all expectation.


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 2, 2013, 6:04 AM
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Re: [FlyingRhenquest] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty sure every DZ in FL is 18+


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 2, 2013, 7:10 AM
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In reply to:
Pretty sure every DZ in FL is 18+

For tandem jumps, that is what I would expect, but allowing minors for AFF and static line jumps is common, isn't it?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 2, 2013, 8:28 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Pretty sure every DZ in FL is 18+

For tandem jumps, that is what I would expect, but allowing minors for AFF and static line jumps is common, isn't it?

That's another can of worms that many DZ's don't like opening. I don't know of any in FL that will take a 17 year old AFF or SL. I guess most DZO's just don't want the risk.


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 2, 2013, 8:29 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Pretty sure every DZ in FL is 18+

For tandem jumps, that is what I would expect, but allowing minors for AFF and static line jumps is common, isn't it?

Dunno...I've never heard of it (but there is a lot that I've never heard of so YMMV...lol). Maybe there is something for private instruction, some sort of deal for visiting groups of foreigners etc - but that is well outside of my knowledge wheelhouse.

Any DZ within a nine iron of the OP it seems to be 18 to party, regardless of instructional method for the average joe walkup. Call around, I guess...


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 2, 2013, 9:24 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Pretty sure every DZ in FL is 18+

For tandem jumps, that is what I would expect, but allowing minors for AFF and static line jumps is common, isn't it?

Common, no but there's a few around that still will. Searching for "16 year old skydive" will probably find the OP lots of options to look at.

But the reality is, most dropzones have decided that the liability is too high if the enforcability of that waiver ever comes into question should the minor get injured or killed.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Jan 2, 2013, 8:24 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm turning 17 in may and want to go skydiving on my birthday. I was wondering if someone could help me find a play near where I love that allows 17 year olds to skydive with parent consent. I live in west Palm Beach Florida area code 33412. Thanks!

West Tennessee Skdiving http://www.SkydiveKingAir.com

Umm go here....:) p.s. the owner posted this so I'm pretty sure it's a go for you ;)


milehigheric  (C License)

Jan 4, 2013, 5:29 PM
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Re: [catfishhunter] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats the general consensus on letting minors jump if you were to factor out the lawyers? Here in Aus I did my first tandem at 14 (legal minimum at the time) and I believe it has been amended to 12 now. Morally I see nothing wrong with it - minors to an extent are capable of making their own decisions and the level of peformance required on a tandem jump would not be out of reach surely. Am I right in saying that this is just a case of the fear of lawyers being sue happy, or is there a bigger focus over there that kids should not be jumping?


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 4, 2013, 5:46 PM
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if the enforcability of that waiver ever comes into question

Oh, there's no question: it ain't.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 4, 2013, 6:01 PM
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In reply to:
Whats the general consensus on letting minors jump if you were to factor out the lawyers? Here in Aus I did my first tandem at 14 (legal minimum at the time) and I believe it has been amended to 12 now. Morally I see nothing wrong with it - minors to an extent are capable of making their own decisions and the level of peformance required on a tandem jump would not be out of reach surely. Am I right in saying that this is just a case of the fear of lawyers being sue happy, or is there a bigger focus over there that kids should not be jumping?

Generally speaking, it's the legal consequences first. If the prevailing legal age of majority (read: ability to execute an enforceable waiver) in the US were, say, age 16, then most DZs in the US would be jumping kids at age 16 instead of 18.

Ethically? Speaking only for myself, having fully raised 2 kids of my own, and being a retired teenager myself, I question whether 90% of kids under age 16 have sound enough judgment and emotional development to make a truly informed and intelligent decision on whether to undertake the particular risk of death inherent in all parachute jumping. (No, it's not the same as other higher-risk activities; it really is a special example entirely unto its own. Comparisons to other activities, including other aviation activities, utterly miss the point.) FWIW (which may be questionable), I feel pretty strongly about this.

At some point, adults have to protect juveniles from the consequences of their own will; and failure to do so is wrongful, even abusive, neglect. So yeah, when I read/hear of 12 year old kids skydiving, I get pissed off; as far as I'm concerned, they're the unwitting victims of child abuse, well-intentioned though it may be.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Jan 4, 2013, 6:26 PM)


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Jan 4, 2013, 6:04 PM
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The problem is then you have some 12 year old freeflyer heads-down carving around you on your jump like it's nothing. It's bad enough putting up with that in the Wind Tunnel!


captain1976  (D 7183)

Jan 4, 2013, 6:07 PM
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Re: [Kirkf22] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

There are DZ's that take kids but I don't know of any in Florida, just Wisconsin.

PM me for details.

The 16 and even 18 year restrictions are stupid.

I started jumping at 16 and the FAA says a 14 year old can solo a glider and get a license at 15. The same should apply to Skydiving.

You can solo a powered airplane at 16 and get a license to fly anywhere you wish with passengers at 17

And here we are with 18 year old restrictions to simply ride as a passenger: STUPID


(This post was edited by captain1976 on Jan 4, 2013, 6:11 PM)


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 4, 2013, 6:29 PM
Post #16 of 23 (3152 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
if the enforcability of that waiver ever comes into question

Oh, there's no question: it ain't.

I knew that. Tongue I was more saying that most won't be questioned ... minor goes on a skydive, all ends well, no questions ever need be asked.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 4, 2013, 7:11 PM
Post #17 of 23 (3147 views)
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Re: [captain1976] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There are DZ's that take kids but I don't know of any in Florida, just Wisconsin.

PM me for details.

The 16 and even 18 year restrictions are stupid.

I started jumping at 16 and the FAA says a 14 year old can solo a glider and get a license at 15. The same should apply to Skydiving.

You can solo a powered airplane at 16 and get a license to fly anywhere you wish with passengers at 17

And here we are with 18 year old restrictions to simply ride as a passenger: STUPID

That's actually a very good point that I'd never heard before.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 4, 2013, 7:21 PM
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Re: [captain1976] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You can solo a powered airplane at 16 and get a license to fly anywhere you wish with passengers at 17

And here we are with 18 year old restrictions to simply ride as a passenger: STUPID

It's not stupid, it's for a different reason (as mentioned). The restriction is not in place because of an inability to physically complete the activity, it's the inability to sign the waiver.

I don't think anyone here thinks that a teenager can't be a tandem passenger, and that some 'older' teenagers couldn't make a solo jump. Just like they they can fly planes and gliders, and drive cars, they could skydive as well.

It's the other edhe of the sword. The US is a society where anyone can and will sue anyone else for just about anything. Good for you in that people (and companies) conduct themselves in such a way to avoid lawsuits (or more inportantly, the damages that cause lawsuits). Bad for you in that people (and companies) sometimes veer so far away from anything that could remotely cause damage to anyone (or anything), that you end up having to live with certain restrictions. This is one of those cases.


rdufokker  (C 13244)

Jan 6, 2013, 2:38 PM
Post #19 of 23 (2991 views)
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Re: [davelepka] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

Why is no waiver required to fly a plane at 16?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 6, 2013, 2:45 PM
Post #20 of 23 (2985 views)
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Re: [rdufokker] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why is no waiver required to fly a plane at 16?

The risk is a lot, lot lower.

Among other reasons, an instructor has to sign off the student for solo flight. They aren't going to do that unless they are confident you are able.


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jan 6, 2013, 9:13 PM
Post #21 of 23 (2920 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Whats the general consensus on letting minors jump if you were to factor out the lawyers? Here in Aus I did my first tandem at 14 (legal minimum at the time) and I believe it has been amended to 12 now. Morally I see nothing wrong with it - minors to an extent are capable of making their own decisions and the level of peformance required on a tandem jump would not be out of reach surely. Am I right in saying that this is just a case of the fear of lawyers being sue happy, or is there a bigger focus over there that kids should not be jumping?

Generally speaking, it's the legal consequences first. If the prevailing legal age of majority (read: ability to execute an enforceable waiver) in the US were, say, age 16, then most DZs in the US would be jumping kids at age 16 instead of 18.

Ethically? Speaking only for myself, having fully raised 2 kids of my own, and being a retired teenager myself, I question whether 90% of kids under age 16 have sound enough judgment and emotional development to make a truly informed and intelligent decision on whether to undertake the particular risk of death inherent in all parachute jumping. (No, it's not the same as other higher-risk activities; it really is a special example entirely unto its own. Comparisons to other activities, including other aviation activities, utterly miss the point.) FWIW (which may be questionable), I feel pretty strongly about this.

At some point, adults have to protect juveniles from the consequences of their own will; and failure to do so is wrongful, even abusive, neglect. So yeah, when I read/hear of 12 year old kids skydiving, I get pissed off; as far as I'm concerned, they're the unwitting victims of child abuse, well-intentioned though it may be.

While I think you're generally right in everything you say here, there are exceptions to the rule, and as one young person told me when I wrote the attached "325" article, a lot of people don't give kids enough credit -- and give adults way too much! This view was reiterated in the "329" article by a DZO who said the 16-year-olds are better prepared to jump than the frat boys who decide to do it on a whim after a night of partying.

That said, many of the posters here are firing close to but still not hitting the real target:

What really counts is a jury's perception of skydiving's risks, compared to other risk activities - NOT the true risk comparisons.

Mike Mullins (whose four sons all started jumping at 11 or 12) put it very eloquently in the "329" article, which I wrote for the final issue of SKYDIVING Magazine.

Anyway, both articles are an interesting read if you're at all interested in the issues surrounding whether minors should or should not be able to jump
in the US.... and then go here for a reality check on the subject. CoolCoolCoolCool

44
Cool
Attachments: Young DZs 329.pdf (27.1 KB)
  young jumpers 325.pdf (32.6 KB)


billbooth  (D 3546)

Jan 7, 2013, 5:50 AM
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Re: [captain1976] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there is No waiver protection for anyone under the legal age of majority in this country. This is unfortunate, but none the less true.

Simply put, if just one person under 18 dies tandem jumping in the good old USA, the dropzone, airport owner, aircraft owner, aircraft manufacturer, UPT, PD, Cypres, and even USPA could ALL be sued out of existence. Please try to think of the damage that would cause the sport.

Don't believe it? Piper Aircraft once lost a $60 million judgement for a Piper Cub that hit a fuel truck the airport owner parked on the runway to prevent the pilot from taking off without paying his fuel bill. They, at least, had some insurance. The parachute industry has none, and $60 million is more than the entire industry has in the bank.

While there is no physical or safety reason why someone under 18 should not make a tandem, the legal argument is overwhelming.

So please don't blame the manufactures or USPA for this "rule", blame the legal system.


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Jan 7, 2013, 7:40 AM
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Re: [billbooth] No age restriction [In reply to] Can't Post

Bah. Lawyers. And keep in mind that you're selecting a jury pool from a population where at least some of the people think it'd be feasible to have windows that passengers can open in a passenger jet...



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