Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012

 

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Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Dec 29, 2012, 6:07 AM
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Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 Can't Post

I have had someone ask me about a potential water landing at the Invasion Boogie. Word was the jumper landed about half a mile into the ocean and had to tread water for around 30 minutes until someone was able to come get them that far out in the Atlantic Ocean.

Ocean Water temps look to be in the mid/upper 60's so hypothermia was a possibility but not likely with only 30 minutes in the water.

Does anyone know if inflation gear was being required on all the jumps or just the beach jumps? Was it being verified that inflation gear was on jumpers if they were on the beach jumps or was it just advised to have it? Was a boat standing by for rescue or did they have to find one to then get into the ocean with?

I know the Invasion Boogie had multiple planes flying at the same time but does anyone know any more details on this jump?


drdive  (D 29619)

Dec 29, 2012, 6:41 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I know no details but know they require flotation gear on all beach jumps.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 29, 2012, 11:31 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Posted on FB by the girl, Katena Houfek:

"Hey guys. I'm ok. I just tracked too far out in ws and turned to come back saw I was too far pulled at 5,000 but winds were pushing me side ways. I knew at 5 I wasn't gonna make it so started unzipping the suit and loosened chest and legs. Flared and hit the water nicely! Cut my main because it was pulling me out further. Then got floatation open and then got out of gear! All my gear is good but I lost my alti track, optima and my go pro. I'm alive but I thought I was going to be scared as hell and all I thought about was relaxing lying in back and knew someone would finally come get me. I drank a lot of salt lol. Thank goodness God was in my side! First beach jump, first wingsuit beach jump and first water landing! Sucks!


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 29, 2012, 11:33 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

In addition to the potentials you asked about, how many "problems" do you see in her post?
Unsure








Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Dec 29, 2012, 1:20 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I had other details also sent my way. It sounds like the level of wingsuit experience was less than 10 jumps and it was on a smaller and newer female jumper. The jumper had also just got all new gear just days prior to going to the boogie.

"Don't worry, you'll probably be fine" as justification comes to mind after hearing details like this... Crazy


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Dec 30, 2012, 8:47 AM)




popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 29, 2012, 6:29 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Your info is correct on all counts. She is a local jumper.




Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 29, 2012, 8:16 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Anything posted by/about the other jumper?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Dec 29, 2012, 9:26 PM
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Re: [The_Don] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

>Some heavy trimming on this thread all day Why?

As a reminder, the following kinds of posts are NOT OK here:

Speaker's Corner type posts concerning politics, guns or religion

Crossposts about a topic being discussed in another forum


rbignon  (D 237927)

Dec 30, 2012, 4:03 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

No Sebastian locals landed in the water it was two people from out of state visiting for invasion ( second visit)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 30, 2012, 5:44 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It sounds like the level of wingsuit experience was less than 10 jumps and it was on a smaller and newer female jumper

Based on the experience level, I have to question the idea of flying a wingsuit (or a canopy) 'out to sea'.

To me, this sounds like the same idea of flying too far downwind in the landing pattern before turning onto the base leg. If winds should pick up, and you fly too far downwind, by the time you turn into the wind for final, you may not make much forward progress, and end up short of your intended target. For this reason, you watch the winds, and adjust your pattern turn-in points accordingly. The idea is to play the odds, and not put yourself in a position where you lack 'options' if conditions should change on you.

I would suspect that this was a similar situation. If the load was spotted out over the water in any capacity, I'm sure it was for good reason. None the less, to fly yourself even further out is foolish. If you're flying a wingsuit, or tracking, or even doing CRW whgere you would need more 'real estate' to complete your skydve, orient your flight path to run parallel to shore where you fly for miles, but still not end up any further out to sea.

Additionally, the idea of 'one new thing' at a time also deserves consideration. A plie of brand new gear, a new discipline (wingsuiting), and beach jumps, sounds like far more 'new' in a short period of time.

Given that I am in 'wild speculation' mode on all of this, I'll add that a 'newer, smaller, female' sounds like a prime target for an undue amount of attention from the 'older, larger, male' jumpers, who might end up telling her whatever she wants to hear for one reason 'or another'. She may have gotten some advice or encouraged to do things that a less attractive new jumper might not have.

I've made the suggestion before that if you get two pieces of conflicting advice about skydiving, go with the safer, more conservative opinion. I'll extend that same thinking to any of the newer female jumpers who get advice from the male jumpers. Get a second opinion from a more experienced female jumper, and if it's different, go with the female's advice. If there is no experienced female, find a male jumper who is attached/married to another jumper, and ask them.

It's a fact in skydiving that pretty girls get all the attention, and one of things that experienced male jumpers can offer them is training and opportunity. Sometimes this goes beyond what what the male jumper would 'normally' consider to be safe and prudent, but we've all done stupid things for love (or a piece of ass). The trouble is, in skydiving, being overly permissive with a new jumper ends up putting them at risk in the process.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Dec 30, 2012, 5:46 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 30, 2012, 6:14 AM
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Re: [FOR THE NEW JUMPERS OUT THERE] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please read Dave's post.

A couple of important issues are included in there.

- Be honest with yourself when you evaluate your skill level.

- Progressing slowly and in control is much, much safer than trying to short-cut and jump into situations you are not really prepared for.

- Making one change at a time is always a good idea. make one change, get used to and comfortable with that and THEN go for the next change.

- Know everything you can about a situation before you go out and do it.

- Always have a plan based on proper knowledge and stick to the plan.

- Be aware that the temptation to do questionable things is more prevalent at boogies.

- Making the incidents forum is not something to be proud of.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Dec 30, 2012, 6:15 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 30, 2012, 7:24 AM
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Re: [davelepka] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
orient your flight path to run parallel to shore where you fly for miles, but still not end up any further out to sea.

You are expecting today's "mainstream" jumpers to have a little common sense and use it.Crazy This person is lucky to still have their new gear.... and life.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Dec 30, 2012, 8:11 AM)




Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Dec 30, 2012, 9:00 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I had some additional information sent to me that this was a 2 way jump and not a solo jump so I am not sure about the other jumper in this jump except they did not seem to land in the ocean. If the other person was a more experienced wingsuiter I would ask who was setting the pattern and why did they open that far out to the sea?

It was also relayed to that this jumper is a "event jumper" and primary travels to events for their jumping and does not have a lot of jumps at a "home" DZ. I have seen this in the past that since no one ever gets to see a person every weekend, no one is there to teach them lessons or have talks with them if they see the same potentially dangerous decisions being made since they are never around people that are watching them. In the case of female jumpers it has also lead to situations where the jumper keeps getting put into situations over their head since some of the male jumpers are hoping to get in their pants at the boogie so they keep inviting them on jumps that another jumper that they know they could not sleep with would not get invited on.

I am not saying that is the case in this situation but it has been linked to some of the female related incidents in the fatality database and these forums in the past.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 30, 2012, 9:08 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...n_The_Water_752.html

Relevant information.






danornan  (D 11308)

Dec 31, 2012, 5:07 AM
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Re: [DSE] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

A very good article - Thanks for the reminder. With all of the water around Florida and the number of drop zones, I'm surprised that flotation is not required at the ones adjacent to water.


onepeter315  (C 40498)

Dec 31, 2012, 9:01 AM
Post #24 of 122 (2226 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a lot of hearsay and speculation. The facts from those involved are:

-2 way WS jump
-both jumpers landed in ocean
-the jumper that landed 1/2 mi out has over 300 jumps and wasn't jumping new gear. She also has a home DZ and is not an "event jumper".
-the second jumper landed 1/4 mi out but has less jump and WS experience.
-both jumpers were females so this was not a case of males inviting them to do something they weren't ready for


lawrocket  (Student)

Dec 31, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #25 of 122 (2217 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Water landing? - Sebastian FL - 28 December 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Another post - an oldie that does not lose its relevance.

http://www.dropzone.com/...cgi?post=75684#75684


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