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AFF AAD save video.

 

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Maksimsf  (B 37743)

Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 PM
Post #1 of 27 (5798 views)
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AFF AAD save video. Can't Post

Found this surfing youtube. Looks really disturbing. I don't know if that was AFF or just a coach jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXX_0OXq-F4

I didn't see this video in "Cypres Save" commercials, so it must be something else.


(This post was edited by Maksimsf on Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 PM)


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Dec 23, 2012, 11:15 PM
Post #2 of 27 (5734 views)
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Re: [Maksimsf] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

This video really puzzles me.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Dec 23, 2012, 11:28 PM
Post #3 of 27 (5721 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope I never get this low chasing a student. Shocked


shorehambeach  (C License)

Dec 24, 2012, 4:17 AM
Post #4 of 27 (5625 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

1.30 freefall and two AFF levels and a Low Pull all in one jump :)

(plus an off landing and a trip the the dry cleaners for his pants)


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Dec 24, 2012, 5:36 AM
Post #5 of 27 (5560 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I hope I never get this low chasing a student. Shocked

Didn't look like he was really chasing him, more like just watching to see what happens Unsure


airdvr  (D 10977)

Dec 24, 2012, 5:38 AM
Post #6 of 27 (5552 views)
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Re: [Mr_Polite] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like both were altitude unaware. Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 24, 2012, 5:49 AM
Post #7 of 27 (5544 views)
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Re: [Maksimsf] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Looks really disturbing. I don't know if that was AFF or just a coach jump

Based on the dive flow - solo exit, turns and back loops, I'm guessing a coach type jump, but I'm not sure how that all works in Russia, so I can't say who would have been on the jump (if it was a rated instructor or not).

The video has been posted before, and another disturbing part is the loose right legstrap, you can see the slack and that it would be possible for the jumper to reach under it looking for the handle.

Another thing is shows (and this goes for any jump anywhere) is that if you don't break off when you're supposed to, someone who has lost altitude awareness will think the skydive is still 'on'. You can see that the student never looks at his alti, but is always making eye contact with the 'coach/instructor'. If any any time the coach/instructor had simply turned and left, that would have got the student thinking.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Dec 24, 2012, 8:27 AM
Post #8 of 27 (5464 views)
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Re: [davelepka] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If any any time the coach/instructor had simply turned and left, that would have got the student thinking.
Having the coach pull right in front of the student give them a pretty strong "PULL" signal. That's what I was trained to do. Smile


Divalent  (C 40494)

Dec 24, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Re: [Maksimsf] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the student waved off and was going for his main before the reserve fired (and pitched a split second after), so I don't think we can call this an AAD save of the student. Hopefully he survived the two out (so it won't be an AAD fatality).

10 sec reserve ride for the coach/instructor (I'm assuming it was his reserve, but can't be sure).


hookitt  (D License)

Dec 24, 2012, 5:39 PM
Post #10 of 27 (5303 views)
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Re: [Divalent] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

That was his main. Lucky to have a fairly quick opening.

I would hope that was not an instructional dive. His body position. Was amazingly bad. If a real instrunctor was filming that, I'd hope for some immediate interaction.

Post dive, fix the fit of the leg strap. Then send him back for additional training.

Teach a proper, compfortable, stable, arch, and recovery. The guy looks kinda big.Its more common to allow that to become a problem since generally, its stable (more or less) and making a bigger guy arch is sometimes out of the fall rate range of unprepared instructors.

I tend to believe it was just a new jumper wanting a video and the videographer is used to relying on others for altitude awareness. I bet he stopped doing that immediately.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Dec 24, 2012, 7:20 PM
Post #11 of 27 (5234 views)
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Re: [Divalent] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

The camera man was more than likely on his main as you can see a frame with the cutaway cable going up the back of his yellow risers. Also, the color of the main (multi-colored) usually means a main, although some older reserves (Raven for example) could be used as both a main and reserve, but most reserves are a solid color.

My search foo is weak tonight, I'm pretty sure I've seen this posted on here, but I can't find the thread.


redramdriver  (C License)

Dec 25, 2012, 5:14 AM
Post #12 of 27 (5083 views)
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Re: [airdvr] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

+1


Shredex

Dec 25, 2012, 11:57 PM
Post #13 of 27 (4934 views)
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Re: [Maksimsf] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

The only answer to this video is:
Some people should stick to gholf.


BigBUG  (D License)

Dec 27, 2012, 1:11 AM
Post #14 of 27 (4719 views)
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Re: [Shredex] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

This was a coach jump, you guys above are absolutely right.
Both persons involved failed the jump big way.

If I was person who make desicisons, both of the jumpers never jumped again at my DZ.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Dec 27, 2012, 3:27 AM
Post #15 of 27 (4700 views)
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Re: [BigBUG] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think such extreme measures are called for. They both survived the jump so they must have been doing something right.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Dec 27, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #16 of 27 (4636 views)
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Re: [BigBUG] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

If I was person who make desicisons, both of the jumpers never jumped again at my DZ.

I don't know about the student, maybe back him/her up in the progression and work on altitude awareness.

The coach, however, needs a talking to. I was taught that busting the hard deck is a huge No-No! I don't think banishment is in order, but it might be a while before I'd send them out on another coach jump? Unsure

But then, who in their right state of mind would allow me to be making decisions? Cool


BigBUG  (D License)

Dec 27, 2012, 12:19 PM
Post #17 of 27 (4570 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thing is that here in Russia we do not have coach system as a rule. So usually the person you do a recurrency jump with, is an instructor.

And I found that the way instructor acts on video is absolutely wrong and unsafe. If I was a DZO, I've tried t get rid of him.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 27, 2012, 4:08 PM
Post #18 of 27 (4475 views)
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Re: [BigBUG] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I found that the way instructor acts on video is absolutely wrong and unsafe. If I was a DZO, I've tried t get rid of him.
I agree.


hookitt  (D License)

Dec 27, 2012, 4:31 PM
Post #19 of 27 (4461 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
And I found that the way instructor acts on video is absolutely wrong and unsafe. If I was a DZO, I've tried t get rid of him.
I agree.

Is he really an instructor? If so, then I would not allow him to perform as an instructor, if he's not, then stop allowing him to perform "coaching" type dives.

Forgive the altitude awareness and call it lesson learned after a strong debrief and move on.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Dec 27, 2012, 6:53 PM
Post #20 of 27 (4404 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't think such extreme measures are called for. They both survived the jump so they must have been doing something right.

I agree that such extreme measures are not called-for here. A more measured response such as remedial training during a weekend-long sit-down at the DZ (for both of them!), for example, might be a good way to deal with this.

On the other hand, I strongly disagree with the all-too-often sentiment that just because a skydiver survives a dumbass move unscathed, he must have been doing something right. That's worse than a tired, old cliche; it's bullshit and it sets a dangerous example for novices.

The corollary to the harsh fact that in skydiving you can do everything right and still die, is that sometimes you can do things shockingly wrong and still walk away unharmed.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Dec 27, 2012, 9:07 PM
Post #21 of 27 (4353 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On the other hand, I strongly disagree with the all-too-often sentiment that just because a skydiver survives a dumbass move unscathed, he must have been doing something right. That's worse than a tired, old cliche; it's bullshit and it sets a dangerous example for novices.
What I mean is that they could have done more bad things, like panic and cut the reserve lines with a hook knife or something.


hookitt  (D License)

Dec 27, 2012, 9:50 PM
Post #22 of 27 (4340 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What I mean is that they could have done more bad things, like panic and cut the reserve lines with a hook knife or something.

You've got quite the imagination Wink


Scrumpot  (D License)

Dec 28, 2012, 8:01 AM
Post #23 of 27 (4237 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing puzzling here. - LOW PULL CONTEST! Guy with the camera won. Cool Flaily-dude forgot to turn his AAD off is all.

Darwin lurks.


Shredex

Dec 28, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #24 of 27 (4186 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nothing puzzling here. - LOW PULL CONTEST! Guy with the camera won. Cool Flaily-dude forgot to turn his AAD off is all.

Darwin lurks.

Camera guy had his on too(Would be died if he didn't) It's just the guy who can't arch's went off first.


hookitt  (D License)

Dec 28, 2012, 10:45 AM
Post #25 of 27 (4145 views)
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Re: [Shredex] AFF AAD save video. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Nothing puzzling here. - LOW PULL CONTEST! Guy with the camera won. Cool Flaily-dude forgot to turn his AAD off is all.

Darwin lurks.

Camera guy had his on too(Would be died if he didn't) It's just the guy who can't arch's went off first.



The camera guy landed under his main, not his reserve.


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