Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying

 

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peedeepalmer  (D 32625)

Dec 4, 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #1 of 41 (7076 views)
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Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying Can't Post

Recently I have started talking to video guys at my dropzone and one point really was an eye openerWhat are your thoughts on having a skyhook or RSL flying camera? Anyother considerations along this topic that would be helpful for someone considering flying camera?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 4, 2012, 3:25 PM
Post #2 of 41 (6956 views)
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Re: [peedeepalmer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I once was a big believer in neither for flying camera.
However, after seeing all the idiots with GoPro's on their helmets with no cutaway... I've re-thought my position a bit.
Cutaways should be on any helmet that has a camera on it, IMO, and this should be a primary consideration before removing an RSL or Skyhook from a rig.

Sure, an RSL or Skyhook might make a bad day worse; but the odds/statistics are more in favor of it making a bad day better.


gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Dec 4, 2012, 7:41 PM
Post #3 of 41 (6909 views)
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Re: [peedeepalmer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Skyhook on one of my rigs, only one cutaway with it, spinning linetwists, not a problem. It may have been an issue back in the day when they were crazy, and didn't cut the excess off their ringsights, and stuff like that.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Dec 4, 2012, 8:39 PM
Post #4 of 41 (6897 views)
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Re: [peedeepalmer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Might be time for PHISHIE to remind some folks about Camera/Helmet line entanglements.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Dec 4, 2012, 9:53 PM
Post #5 of 41 (6881 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I have 2 chops with my camera helmet and skyhooks. I understand the concerns of snags, but if you set up your helmet with minimizing snag points in mind, its not really a problem. After the first chop with a skyhook, I swore that every container that I would own there after would have a skyhook or similar system on it.


piisfish

Dec 5, 2012, 12:27 AM
Post #6 of 41 (6864 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Might be time for PHISHIE to remind some folks about Camera/Helmet line entanglements.
which would not be relevant for this thread, as the OP is asking for RSL/Skyhook Tongue

But yes, I do advocate for helmet cutaways and for breakable parts (like nylon screws)

For the OP, maybe you never heard of it, check in the incidents forum for a thread named "Last night a Cypres saved my life"


bdazel  (D License)

Dec 5, 2012, 4:51 AM
Post #7 of 41 (6822 views)
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Re: [peedeepalmer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

After dealing with a helmet/freebag entanglement (on a non-skyhook-equipped rig), I prefer to disconnect my RSL/Skyhook for video jumps. I want that extra second or two to regain a good deployment position. Granted, the Skyhook may mitigate that need, but I just feel more comfortable without it.


Skwrl  (C 36419)

Dec 5, 2012, 7:28 AM
Post #8 of 41 (6773 views)
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Re: [DSE] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I once was a big believer in neither for flying camera.
However, after seeing all the idiots with GoPro's on their helmets with no cutaway... I've re-thought my position a bit.
Cutaways should be on any helmet that has a camera on it, IMO, and this should be a primary consideration before removing an RSL or Skyhook from a rig.

Sure, an RSL or Skyhook might make a bad day worse; but the odds/statistics are more in favor of it making a bad day better.

I agree with this line of thinking. If you have an RSL, make absolutely certain:

- your helmet has a cutaway,

- you realize that the camera changes your emergency procedures for some malfunctions, and

- you learn (and train on) those altered EPs for those types of malfunctions.

I know I've posted it before, but this video is pretty illustrative of how things can go wrong. https://vimeo.com/37998866


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 5, 2012, 8:10 AM
Post #9 of 41 (6760 views)
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Re: [peedeepalmer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this is one of those things where if you are in doubt, you might as well hook it up. Statistically more folks have had their butts saved by RSL/skyhook than those who have pounded in because of it.

Having said that, I choose not to use either when I fly camera. I have spent a lot of time researching, and watched tons of videos, and this is the conclusion I have come up with for myself-

1- my most likely malfunction based on my gear is a spinning malfunction.
2- shooting video, I typically open higher and have a little more time than others
3- I am EXTREMELY aware that in a spinning mal on my gear, I am still descending at near free fall rates and have to react quickly.

On spinning malfunctions some of the relative wind is coming from below you, it is very common when you deploy in this situation for reserve PC, Bag, and/or lines to launch past you head, under your arm, or otherwise contact your body. With all that shit on my head (even in low snag designs) I don't like the idea of my last chance at saving my life rubbing up against or snagging on part of my helmet. For me, it is worth it to have that extra second or two to roll over and launch my last parachute into clean air.

I'll see if I can dig up some more footage, but this is one that shows the issue really well.

This isn't an RSL/skyhook but is a very fast deployment while on his back under a spinning Petra. https://www.youtube.com/...;v=nRYa_pXJ_p4#t=41s


This was my last chop from this year, was glad to be able to roll over. https://www.youtube.com/...yer_detailpage#t=30s


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 5, 2012, 8:43 AM
Post #10 of 41 (6745 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

More food for thought (fuel to the fire?)?

http://www.youtube.com/...;v=I75Z9iTLdwo#t=70s

This video has this argument written all over it!

To my point- When this guy chops you see all his lines and everything go right past his head on the video.

Counter to my point- A, it opened just fine, and B... I think this guy would be a grease spot without an RSL/skyhook. I don't think he had time to pull it on his own (def no time to roll over) and the fast deployment saved his life.


To one of my early points... He fought it way too long, lost altitude awareness, and cut away dirty low. This is why you have to realize how much altitude you lose when you are in a spinner, and have to make a decision and take action quickly.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Dec 5, 2012, 8:58 AM
Post #11 of 41 (6740 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

The attached image is from the first video you linked, during deployment of the reserve. I suspect he's glad he didn't have a side-mounted Contour with that one. Crazy
Attachments: Reserve lines by helmet.jpg (34.2 KB)


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 5, 2012, 10:41 AM
Post #12 of 41 (6705 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

and the split second before that it looks like the bag is touching the top of his head.


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 6, 2012, 9:10 AM
Post #13 of 41 (6566 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

another good video showing all the reserve deployment getting up close and personal with the camera/body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDptCvRDCBE


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Dec 6, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #14 of 41 (6557 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
another good video showing all the reserve deployment getting up close and personal with the camera/body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDptCvRDCBE


If that rig did have a skyhook, I believe that reserve deployment would have looked a lot "cleaner".


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 10, 2012, 8:55 AM
Post #15 of 41 (6364 views)
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Re: [jtiflyer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree.

Not totally sold yet, but I have been watching more and more skyhook spinner videos... and there is a chance I could talk myself into using one on video jumps. They all seem much less sloppy with less proximity to helmet/camera than the RSL vids.


nrobinson

Dec 11, 2012, 10:35 AM
Post #16 of 41 (6273 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I have both a cutaway on my helmet, and an RSL. I am a firm believer that EVERY camera helmet should have a cutaway, regardless of what type of camera is fitted. I also know several people that have had to use their cutaways in live situations. I jump an RSL, despite some of the more 'old school' jumpers I work with not supporting the idea, in fact, most of the camera team at my dropzone use either and RSL or skyhook, save one or two.

Having had a hairy moment on Saturday, a pilot chute hesitation on main (with the main clearing and opening at 2000ft as I reached for the reserve handle) and the main opening with enough twists to make it interesting, I was glad to have and RSL... I had a fairly clean reserve deployment and landed in the lading area wthout further incident. I know plenty of people that use RSL/Skyhook and fly camera, and personally I feel that the pros outweigh the cons :)


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 11, 2012, 12:33 PM
Post #17 of 41 (6243 views)
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Re: [jtiflyer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

found the grail for actual skyhook videos

http://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/...tem&Itemid=445#V

After watching 20 or more of these, I think I would (will) hook up a skyhook. I didn't see any where the jumper was on his/her back and had any lines/PC etc. come under their arm, or really touch their body. I think it is positive enough to put my fears at ease. I might work putting my chin down into my cutaway procedures... but I think the hook would be a good idea. I'm still "no go" on a standard rsl though.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Dec 11, 2012, 4:38 PM
Post #18 of 41 (6201 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
found the grail for actual skyhook videos

http://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/...tem&Itemid=445#V

After watching 20 or more of these, I think I would (will) hook up a skyhook. I didn't see any where the jumper was on his/her back and had any lines/PC etc. come under their arm, or really touch their body. I think it is positive enough to put my fears at ease. I might work putting my chin down into my cutaway procedures... but I think the hook would be a good idea. I'm still "no go" on a standard rsl though.

well if you have ever been on your back spinning, you would remember that centrifugal force builds quite quickly. So as soon as the risers are cutaway the tension you were building is released and you are jettisoned horizontally away from the main. When a skyhook is attached and it works correctly as you travel away from the main, you are also traveling away from the reserve as it extracts (since it is attached to the risers after all).


adamT  (D 26819)

Dec 11, 2012, 5:17 PM
Post #19 of 41 (6193 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

You expect UPT to put up skyhook videos that are anything less then perfect?


Dokeman  (D License)

Dec 11, 2012, 6:27 PM
Post #20 of 41 (6185 views)
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Re: [adamT] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

same can be said for any manufacture


adamT  (D 26819)

Dec 11, 2012, 6:58 PM
Post #21 of 41 (6175 views)
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Re: [Dokeman] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed


Zlew  (D 21616)

Dec 11, 2012, 7:55 PM
Post #22 of 41 (6164 views)
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Re: [adamT] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

True, but i've seen several others that they didn't post on their site. The only ones where I see things coming from below are with RSL or fast/back deployments.


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Dec 18, 2012, 4:20 PM
Post #23 of 41 (5805 views)
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Re: [jtiflyer] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
found the grail for actual skyhook videos

http://unitedparachutetechnologies.com/...tem&Itemid=445#V

After watching 20 or more of these, I think I would (will) hook up a skyhook. I didn't see any where the jumper was on his/her back and had any lines/PC etc. come under their arm, or really touch their body. I think it is positive enough to put my fears at ease. I might work putting my chin down into my cutaway procedures... but I think the hook would be a good idea. I'm still "no go" on a standard rsl though.

well if you have ever been on your back spinning, you would remember that centrifugal force builds quite quickly. So as soon as the risers are cutaway the tension you were building is released and you are jettisoned horizontally away from the main. When a skyhook is attached and it works correctly as you travel away from the main, you are also traveling away from the reserve as it extracts (since it is attached to the risers after all).

I agree with you JT.

I've done the research and have talked with professors of Physics.

I believe if more people understood how a centrifuge works and then unerstood how the sudden release of mass attached to and causing the centrifuge affects that mass along with the proximity of the skyhook attachment and anchor of the main parachute then more people would have a new and different perspective of the Skyhook and other types of MARDs.

But we must also remember this:

A man convinced against his will - is of the same opinion still.

.


canatheart  (D 1130)

Apr 7, 2013, 11:52 AM
Post #24 of 41 (4697 views)
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Re: [DSE] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Are there any hard stats available or is this all based on experience?

I'm a new camera flyer and am on the fence about whether or not to disconnect my RSL. However, the dropzone I want to work for requires me to disconnect it otherwise I can't jump camera there. I want to be at peace with this decision...I also know that if I provide more hard facts, if my choice is to leave it connected, they would be open at looking at that and changing the rule. Help?


(This post was edited by canatheart on Apr 7, 2013, 11:55 AM)


bluebird932

Apr 7, 2013, 3:12 PM
Post #25 of 41 (4619 views)
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Re: [DSE] Skyhook/RSL for Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I have Bonehead Revolve full face with camera not on the top of helmet but on the side. Beside that camera has sharp edges and is outside not in the box so its easier to catch some lines. Thats how they sell it. What do you think about full face helmets is that make any sense to mount cutaway system? I think it would be difficult to get rid of full face helmet anyway
In reply to:


(This post was edited by bluebird932 on Apr 7, 2013, 3:17 PM)


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