Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Freebag Lockup

 

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Squeak  (E 1313)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:18 AM
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Freebag Lockup Can't Post

Anyone know the story behind this?
John Sherman?


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:25 AM
Post #2 of 44 (5021 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Anyone know the story behind this?
John Sherman?

Yes, I do. What would you like to know?


piisfish

Dec 12, 2012, 1:27 AM
Post #3 of 44 (5009 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

ShockedShocked


Squeak  (E 1313)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:41 AM
Post #4 of 44 (4998 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Anyone know the story behind this?
John Sherman?

Yes, I do. What would you like to know?
Like the OP states, what's the story behind it?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Dec 12, 2012, 6:44 AM
Post #5 of 44 (4891 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Anyone know the story behind this?
John Sherman?

Yes, I do. What would you like to know?

Well, it says "Main 170sq ft." What size reserve? What size container (IOW, what size main and reserve were supposed to be in there)?


airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 12, 2012, 8:40 AM
Post #6 of 44 (4825 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Ad for crazy glue? Wink


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Dec 12, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #7 of 44 (4798 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

From JumpShack FB page:

"Parachute Labs, Inc.: This was not staged. It was just a customer rig that came in for inspection & repack. Boxing of the upper portion of the reserve container, tuck tabs and riser covers encroaching over the side flaps all contributed to holding the reserve d-bag in."


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Dec 12, 2012, 11:01 AM
Post #8 of 44 (4696 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well, it says "Main 170sq ft." What size reserve? What size container (IOW, what size main and reserve were supposed to be in there)?

It was a V3 with a PD176R packed on 3/20/2001 and as said a 170 main. It was not staged. Remember the fact that the main was full and packed, this might make a difference.
I don't know what is supposed to go in there as it came to us packed for cyclic inspection and we videoed it as we often routinly did. I believe the combinations were correct. This happened in 2001 and has been on the web for that long. It is not uncommon. Yes the owner was told and shown the video. I don't believe he is in the sport any longer.
A USPA Bullitin issued a couple of years ago solicited info about situations like this to be reported to the PIA tech comm.
There has been considerable conversation over the years on this forum. If you want to know about more, just ask for it. I am sure you will get your inbox filled.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2012, 11:34 AM
Post #9 of 44 (4662 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

We've seen this one before quite a while back IIRCC

Well John, I noticed that the direction of pull was not as it would have been in the air...unless the jumper was standing upright at reserve deployment.

Rigs are not designed to have the bag come out at that angle.


Deyan  (D 322)

Dec 12, 2012, 11:53 AM
Post #10 of 44 (4634 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well John, I noticed that the direction of pull was not as it would have been in the air...unless the jumper was standing upright at reserve deployment.

Rigs are not designed to have the bag come out at that angle.

Question for you...

Total malfunction...the jumper freaks out because he can't find his reserve handle. He stops arching and he goes butt down.....the AAD fires.

Which direction the RPC will go and what will be the angle of pulling ?


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Dec 12, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #11 of 44 (4606 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well John, I noticed that the direction of pull was not as it would have been in the air...unless the jumper was standing upright at reserve deployment.

Usually, when I have a partial, the malfunctioned main sets me up into the vertical. I know that it would be wrong for me to go back into the horizontal because I want the air flowing over my back to sweep off any possibility of a burble. Additionally, I am in a position to accept opening shock. Likewise when I am deploying from the horizontal (main or reserve) I "Sit up and dump" or get vertical for the above reasons. The biggest problem I have with test jumpers is that they want to go back to the horizontal after release. Thats dead wrong, fly on you shins, stay vertical. You will get a faster smoother opening.

Quote:
Rigs are not designed to have the bag come out at that angle.
Oh!

I have been designing rigs for 40 years and didn't know that.


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:00 PM
Post #12 of 44 (4563 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

I was under the impression that a hard arch is the worst possible position for a reserve deployment.


airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #13 of 44 (4548 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was under the impression that a hard arch is the worst possible position for a reserve deployment.

?? Please explain.

I have 14 reserve rides and hard arched then manually deployed each one...what am I dong wrong?


Premier Remster  (C License)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:41 PM
Post #14 of 44 (4522 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I have 14 reserve rides and <...>...what am I dong wrong?

Packing comes to mind... TongueWink


Deyan  (D 322)

Dec 12, 2012, 1:48 PM
Post #15 of 44 (4510 views)
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Re: [Remster] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I have 14 reserve rides and <...>...what am I dong wrong?

Packing comes to mind... TongueWink

LaughLaughLaugh


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Dec 12, 2012, 2:19 PM
Post #16 of 44 (4479 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well John, I noticed that the direction of pull was not as it would have been in the air...unless the jumper was standing upright at reserve deployment.

Rigs are not designed to have the bag come out at that angle.

How about an RSL reserve deployment, after a bag-lock cutaway (which stood you up)?


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 12, 2012, 2:56 PM
Post #17 of 44 (4443 views)
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Re: [Remster] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Packing comes to mind...

Ya can't teach "some" grumpy crotchety old fucks new tricks....Laugh


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 12, 2012, 2:57 PM
Post #18 of 44 (4436 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Oh!

I have been designing rigs for 40 years and didn't know that.

Oh well now we all know why you've been doing things wrong all this time..... LOLLaugh

JK.Tongue


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Dec 12, 2012, 3:05 PM
Post #19 of 44 (4424 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Oh well now we all know why you've been doing things wrong all this time..... LOL

Yeah, now I have to go and modify all thoes Racers so they will hold the bag in at that angle. I'll never learn.

Oh BTW: Here is another one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgneR9Ei00


diablopilot  (D License)

Dec 12, 2012, 3:59 PM
Post #20 of 44 (4388 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We've seen this one before quite a while back IIRCC

Well John, I noticed that the direction of pull was not as it would have been in the air...unless the jumper was standing upright at reserve deployment.

Rigs are not designed to have the bag come out at that angle.

Not true. They need to be designed for just such a deployment. What is the jumper's orientation in relation to the relative wind the moment post breakaway from a spinning malfunction back to earth when an RSL pulls the pin?

It's exactly that orientation.


airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 12, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #21 of 44 (4354 views)
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Re: [Remster] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I have 14 reserve rides and <...>...what am I dong wrong?

Packing comes to mind... TongueWink

YOU ever tried to pack a Thunderbow hungover? Angelic


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2012, 7:04 PM
Post #22 of 44 (4290 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

same direction as the relative wind.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Dec 12, 2012, 7:27 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2012, 7:18 PM
Post #23 of 44 (4277 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How about an RSL reserve deployment, after a bag-lock cutaway (which stood you up)?
What about it? Do you assume that any one body position is going guaranteed operation or non-operation?

Just FYI... a bag lock does not stand you up as a matter of course. It may or may not. So what's your point?

That freebag can come out in just about any body position....or it can stay locked in...as has happened before.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2012, 7:19 PM
Post #24 of 44 (4275 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

OK...your arrogance is showing now. But...it's always nice to know that there is at least one perfect person out there who could never be wrong about anything.

Read the PM.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Dec 12, 2012, 7:25 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #25 of 44 (4273 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Freebag Lockup [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Usually, when I have a partial,...
Great. So let's have a discussion about partials instead of stuck freebags.


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