Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please

 


Thirstyknave

Nov 22, 2012, 7:35 AM
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AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please Can't Post

I'm a newbie to sport diving and during my AFF1 jump I had a pilot chute in tow malfunction. I was aware of the chute not deploying on time because I have several military static line jumps. The AFF instructors stayed with me and so I waiting while they wrestled the container open. It only took about 5-6 seconds after I initiated deployment before I had a canopy. I felt confident about my next actions if it didn't deploy but I was wondering if this is fairly common to have this malfunction and would it be logical to make a quick attempt at reaching back to try and free the bridal if it happened again?


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 22, 2012, 7:42 AM
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was wondering if this is fairly common to have this malfunction

It's not extremely common, but it does happen occasionally. That's why your instructors trained you in EPs to deal with it (I would hope).

In reply to:
would it be logical to make a quick attempt at reaching back to try and free the bridal if it happened again?

There is no single, universally agreed-upon accepted answer to this question. The answer may vary with your training method and/or level of experience, among other things.
As a student, you should obtain the answer to this question only from your own instructors.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Nov 22, 2012, 7:44 AM)


Southern_Man  (C License)

Nov 22, 2012, 8:42 AM
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but I was wondering if this is fairly common to have this malfunction and would it be logical to make a quick attempt at reaching back to try and free the bridal if it happened again?

Your second question you should ask your instructor.

The first, well, pilot chute in tow (or hesitation, hard to tell without video) is slightly more common when you are on early AFF levels and have instructors riding you through deployment. Creates a big burble. That may or may not be a contributing factor in your situation.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 22, 2012, 9:51 AM
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm a newbie to sport diving and during my AFF1 jump I had a pilot chute in tow malfunction. I was aware of the chute not deploying on time because I have several military static line jumps. The AFF instructors stayed with me and so I waiting while they wrestled the container open. It only took about 5-6 seconds after I initiated deployment before I had a canopy. I felt confident about my next actions if it didn't deploy but I was wondering if this is fairly common to have this malfunction and would it be logical to make a quick attempt at reaching back to try and free the bridal if it happened again?

At a student experience level I'd say No, it is not logical to make an attempt to reach back and grab the bridal. Follow the emergency procedures you were taught


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Nov 22, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm a newbie to sport diving and during my AFF1 jump I had a pilot chute in tow malfunction. I was aware of the chute not deploying on time because I have several military static line jumps. The AFF instructors stayed with me and so I waiting while they wrestled the container open.

Did your instructors use the words "pilot chute in tow", or is that your phrase? Are you sure it wasn't really just a pilot chute hesitation? If "in tow", why was it in tow? Was the pilot chute collapsed for some reason? Bridle half-hitched around the pilot chute so it produced no drag? Incorrectly routed bridle? You need to find these things out, and make sure that the source of the problem, whether equipment or procedure, has been corrected.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Nov 22, 2012, 2:05 PM)


Premier RickH  (D 18955)

Nov 22, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

With students we as Instructors would not train you to reach back in an attempt to grab the bridle as this could cause more of a problem. It could cause you to go unstable thus causing the bridle to wrap around an outer extremity ( arms, legs etc.). Another thing is staying altitude aware, this is a high speed malfunction and time is very critical.
Pilot chute hesitation is common with a Level 1 and 2 jumps as both instructors are holding on during deployment which causes a huge burble around the three of you, hesitations sometimes do occur.
I would inquire as to the answer that your instructors gave you as to why their was a hesitation. Also keep in mind that a old or damaged pilot chute could also be the nature of the problem.
Whatever course of action you took was obviously the right one as you are still here with us. I commend you for asking questions, but keep asking your instructors as others who are not as skilled may provide the wrong answers.
Welcome to our world....many more soft landings for you!


Thirstyknave

Nov 22, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #7 of 12 (1554 views)
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Re: [RickH] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the comments. It sounds like I may have had a hesitation instead of an (in tow). It was a fairly new rig and they said it was tight in the container. That makes more sense to me. Thanks All.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 22, 2012, 8:02 PM
Post #8 of 12 (1423 views)
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for the comments. It sounds like I may have had a hesitation instead of an (in tow). It was a fairly new rig and they said it was tight in the container. That makes more sense to me. Thanks All.

Tight in the container...PCIT, not a PC hesitation.

PC hesitation is when the PC gets caught in the burble on your back.

If the bridle is extended away from you and it doesn't open the container or pull out the deployment bag for what ever reason, then yes...that is a PCIT.

I am strongly in the camp of telling students, "Do NOT reach back to grab anything in a PCIT or hesitation." As was mentioned by Rick, stability is the issue. Getting caught up in lines or bridle or anything else at pull time is ....not good. Hell, it's not good anytime.

Just out of curiosity, what method were taught for handling PCIT? How about PC hesitation?


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Nov 22, 2012, 8:26 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 22, 2012, 8:21 PM
Post #9 of 12 (1407 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The first, well, pilot chute in tow (..snip..) is slightly more common when you are on early AFF levels and have instructors riding you through deployment. Creates a big burble. That may or may not be a contributing factor in your situation.

This is all too true. I think the way I was taught is a much better idea for the main side AFFI:
- Stay until the PC leaves the youngsters hand and immediately get the hell out of Dodge....

...and it's all about minimizing that burble for the PC.

An example:
We had one particular AFFI who always stayed all the way through deployment and could not understand why he was the only one having student PCIT issues. I explained it to him but, alas, he had more jumps than me.
Unsure


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 22, 2012, 8:23 PM
Post #10 of 12 (1406 views)
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Re: [Thirstyknave] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

CarpeDiem3 has some good questions that you should have answered foir you. Particularly for future prevention in addition to your learning.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Nov 22, 2012, 9:36 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

Coincidentally, in a video linked to in another thread, there was segment of something that looked similar to what the OP might have experienced: an AFF student with two instructors, the main side pulls for the student, the PC goes up, pulls the pin, and it looks like the bridle is taut, but the bag doesn't come out. Reserve side reaches in and yanks the bag out.

Note: the link gets the video going about 7 secs before the segment starts, so you have time to make the ad disappear before it begins:

http://www.youtube.com/...youtu.be&t=3m55s


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 22, 2012, 10:02 PM
Post #12 of 12 (1356 views)
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Re: [Divalent] AFF Level 1 Malfuction? Advice Please [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly. BTDT more times than once.

That was a case of a delay in the PC pulling the bag out for whatever reason. It didn't appear to me to have been caused by the main side staying too long. He did his job correctly. Sometimes that is cause by containers being over-stuffed with large canopies.

It's cheaper for the DZO if he can minimize the number of container sizes for student gear.

Thanks for the demo of what the OP was talking about.



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