Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Canopy climbs after 270

 

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stayhigh  (F 111)

Nov 20, 2012, 9:34 PM
Post #26 of 45 (2201 views)
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Re: [castrodavidd] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

There are ton of katana 150 out there.
Even with the katana, if you turn it right it will almost level itself off on 270's...
That was using KA150 at 1.45 wingload.


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Nov 21, 2012, 5:10 AM
Post #27 of 45 (2162 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

What dharma1976 probably meant was that instead of just letting go of the dive loops when you are done with your turn, you gradually let your hands up so that you end up in full flight. I have often seen people just release the dive loops with their fingers, thus keeping the canopy in quarter breaks (or so) and wondering why their canopy is auto pitching. Having video of the landing is key to tell if this is whats happening or if it is the inevitable auto pitch that is en effect here.


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 21, 2012, 11:49 AM
Post #28 of 45 (2135 views)
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Re: [f94sbu] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

+1

Getting a controlled release of the fronts made a big difference to my plane-out and the speed of my swoops. Also meant I had to start my turn higher to allow for the increased dive.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Nov 21, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #29 of 45 (2117 views)
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Re: [f94sbu] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What dharma1976 probably meant was that instead of just letting go of the dive loops when you are done with your turn, you gradually let your hands up so that you end up in full flight. I have often seen people just release the dive loops with their fingers, thus keeping the canopy in quarter breaks (or so) and wondering why their canopy is auto pitching. Having video of the landing is key to tell if this is whats happening or if it is the inevitable auto pitch that is en effect here.

I agree with this. Should be a slower transition from fronts to rears. This could be his problem.


Pendragon  (D 104102)

Nov 21, 2012, 5:01 PM
Post #30 of 45 (2083 views)
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Re: [hparrish] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

...and I would add that the OP's turn is probably rushed. Start higher and slow everything down.

Although the xfire2 does have a reputation to recover more abruptly, this is probably only noticable at lower wing loadings: I don't find the effect pronounced at all (I jump a 109 @ 1.8). Slowing things down should help; starting lower and increasing the speed of rotation should be avoided.


trigger  (D 101390)

Nov 22, 2012, 1:28 AM
Post #31 of 45 (2038 views)
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Re: [Pendragon] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/...hPY&feature=plcp

Crossfire2 falling from the sky @ 3mins in this video and it isn't recovering abruptly

Not POV but Air 2 Air


(This post was edited by trigger on Nov 22, 2012, 1:33 AM)


ClippedWings

Nov 22, 2012, 6:46 AM
Post #32 of 45 (2014 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Problem with super short recovery arc canopy is that, it almsot makes the swooper to turn lower to the ground, and they all expect that canopy itself will pull it out of the dive.

and sometimes that same canopy will not come out of the dive like used to and if you are still waiting for your canopy to do its thing, you are too late.

With short recovery arc canopy you need to be super precise. with canopy that can sink in, it is much easier and safer imo.

This is exactly what got me in a wheelchair (not counting my lack of skill). I've been struggling with pop ups exactly like that in the video before, sometimes I would get a "decent" lucky turf surf, but most of the time it was a struggle and cursing because of those pop ups.. I was using a Safire 2 129 with 10 kg lead which made my WL of around 1.3 (doing 270's).

That faithful day I popped up 3 times and I thought I'll just go harder on my last one to get a decent swoop and bam I got myself into ground.. I didn't increase my rotation that day, I only made it slower and it was enough for me to not react quick enough and whack myself..

It's true that canopies with short recovery demand a lot of skill and good judgement, furthermore emphasizing that it's not a good tool to learn to swoop on. Now I know why Velo's, Katana's and PD in general is the swoopers choice..

This was one of those when I didn't know wtf I did right, but it worked out "decently".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue_3xzfU4YU

And this again, the failed one, after 3 pop ups, the 4th deciding one which got me, I thought that it will level out on it's own and might even pop up like always, but I was wrong and from a longer rotation, not a bigger one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk

Be Safe


(This post was edited by ClippedWings on Nov 22, 2012, 6:54 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2012, 7:49 AM
Post #33 of 45 (1996 views)
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Re: [ClippedWings] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's true that canopies with short recovery demand a lot of skill and good judgement, furthermore emphasizing that it's not a good tool to learn to swoop on. Now I know why Velo's, Katana's and PD in general is the swoopers choice..

A XF2 (which is what the OP is jumping) is not a canopy with a short recovery arc.

I don't think anyone is suggesting learning on a Katana or a Velo. Those are canopies for those who already have mastered the basics of HP canopy flight with a more forgiving canopy.


SRI85  (D License)

Nov 22, 2012, 8:12 AM
Post #34 of 45 (1991 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Your wrong it DOES have a short recovery arc.

on a 99 at 1.5-1.6 it was right at 150ft according to my neptune


(This post was edited by SRI85 on Nov 22, 2012, 8:43 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2012, 9:38 AM
Post #35 of 45 (1976 views)
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Re: [SRI85] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your wrong it DOES have a short recovery arc.

on a 99 at 1.5-1.6 it was right at 150ft according to my neptune

Compared to what?

Compared to a Velo/Katana - yes, it's shorter.
Compared to a Pulse, Stiletto, Heatwave etc, etc - it's longer.

Also, what exactly are you measuring at 150ft?


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Nov 23, 2012, 11:44 AM
Post #36 of 45 (1900 views)
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Re: [SRI85] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your wrong it DOES have a short recovery arc.

on a 99 at 1.5-1.6 it was right at 150ft according to my neptune

Perhaps if turn yourself into an unguided meat missile with a hard quick yank on a toggle or front riser like we did fifteen years ago although most of us learned that you get more speed with a slower turn that accelerates the canopy longer from a higher altitude. Slower higher turns are also readily adjusted to let you enjoy a nice accurate swoop when you arrive higher or lower than you planned.

Get some canopy coaching. It'll make you both faster and safer.


BMFin

Nov 24, 2012, 8:18 AM
Post #37 of 45 (1828 views)
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you should go back and watch the video he provided. Definetly not the type of unguided toggle yank you are talking about. IMO the turn looks nice and smooth and has good accuracy.


SRI85  (D License)

Nov 25, 2012, 11:27 AM
Post #38 of 45 (1745 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Your wrong it DOES have a short recovery arc.

on a 99 at 1.5-1.6 it was right at 150ft according to my neptune

Compared to what?

Compared to a Velo/Katana - yes, it's shorter.
Compared to a Pulse, Stiletto, Heatwave etc, etc - it's longer.

Also, what exactly are you measuring at 150ft?

Those are all flat trimmed canopies, (dont know why you through the pulse into that mix) they may not all have the same recovery arc, but they are all relative and can be classified as short.

To measure the recovery arc, i used a chest mounted neptune, and used a go pro with an extended mount on my helmet facing down. (oh no! a snag hazard!) A frame by frame review will give you a good idea of the recovery arc. I attached a pic to show.


(This post was edited by SRI85 on Nov 25, 2012, 11:28 AM)
Attachments: recoveryarc.jpg (85.8 KB)


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 25, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #39 of 45 (1739 views)
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Re: [SRI85] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Velo/Katana

Those are all flat trimmed canopies,

Excuse me? It's going to be hard to find anything much steeper trimmed than those two.


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 25, 2012, 11:52 AM
Post #40 of 45 (1737 views)
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Re: [SRI85] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
To measure the recovery arc, i used a chest mounted neptune, and used a go pro with an extended mount on my helmet facing down. (oh no! a snag hazard!) A frame by frame review will give you a good idea of the recovery arc. I attached a pic to show.

So are you measuring from the point of release of the front risers to the plane out?


SRI85  (D License)

Nov 25, 2012, 12:01 PM
Post #41 of 45 (1733 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
To measure the recovery arc, i used a chest mounted neptune, and used a go pro with an extended mount on my helmet facing down. (oh no! a snag hazard!) A frame by frame review will give you a good idea of the recovery arc. I attached a pic to show.

So are you measuring from the point of release of the front risers to the plane out?

I was referring to the stiletto and heatwave. Not velo and katana.

yes, measuring at the point i release front risers to plane out.


piisfish

Nov 26, 2012, 12:35 AM
Post #42 of 45 (1666 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Velo/Katana

Those are all flat trimmed canopies,

Excuse me? It's going to be hard to find anything much steeper trimmed than those two.
Neos, but you are correct, they are steep canopies, at least in my opinion


holie  (A License)

Nov 29, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #43 of 45 (1497 views)
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Re: [ClippedWings] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

... welcome back! It's a pleasure to read your post!

Smile


castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Dec 10, 2012, 12:07 PM
Post #44 of 45 (1298 views)
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Re: [holie] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

Follow up to my original post. After checking all of my line trims, I lengthened my brake lines by 2.5 cm. The climb has drastically reduced, maybee down to 3 or 4 feet. Which I can live with, I think.


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Dec 12, 2012, 11:02 AM
Post #45 of 45 (1189 views)
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Re: [castrodavidd] Canopy climbs after 270 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Follow up to my original post. After checking all of my line trims, I lengthened my brake lines by 2.5 cm. The climb has drastically reduced, maybee down to 3 or 4 feet. Which I can live with, I think.

I would really like to add that you should really work on slowing things down, not in progression, but in time and space. Try different things at altitude to see what the response is, note them. you will find a lot of things that you can put in your swooping toolbox within this time. You will be able to get rid of the pop. I also moved myself to the longest risers my arms would reach to add recovery time to my crossfires. that helped as well but definitely bring your turn up for that one.

Good luck with it.
Dave


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