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mrshutter45

Nov 17, 2012, 10:06 PM
Post #37876 of 55797 (39136 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] A HEART WARMING STORY? [In reply to] Can't Post

Basically you are saying, I'm wrong, DZ is wrong, Marla is wrong, The FBI is wrong??? everyone but you and Duane right?
can we conclude this now?

see a pattern anywhere?


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Nov 17, 2012, 10:10 PM)


skyjack71

Nov 17, 2012, 10:19 PM
Post #37877 of 55797 (39122 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] many ID's [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When the FBI receives the prints they create a "Master Set" of prints related to each person that prints are submitted for. If there are multiple sets for one person, the techs will use the best prints from each set to make one best Master Set.

That paragraph was later found to be deceptive and inaccurate as the productions of the Master Sets was not completed until the 80's and some individual never made it into the system. Duane Fell in that cusp - It was a PUZZLE why they used the 1944 prints from McNeil a prison they later claimed he had not resided in - only passed thru. DON't U SEE a PROBLEM with THAT!

In reply to:
The odds that Weber was able to have someone on the inside of the FBI to alter this process is not a reality. Someone suggested comparing all prints taken from Weber (AKA) et al to those recovered from flight 305. All of the prints are at the FBI, or at least the 26 I referenced.

This was CARR babbling off the top of his head. To my Knowledge -This was NEVER done. The story about prints being changed within the Jefferson Prison circulated for yrs with in the system - one prisoner supposedly wrote a story about this - but I did not find him until 3 months after he died. The story was never confirmed.


In reply to:
On 11/06/1998, the lab reported that there were 19 prints of value discovered on the resume, of which 5 were yours. The remaining 14 prints of value were compared to the known prints of Duane Weber with negative results (meaning they didn't belong to Duane).

Do YOU not find that ODD that Duane's prints were NOT on that resume!results.


mrshutter45

Nov 17, 2012, 10:30 PM
Post #37878 of 55797 (39118 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] many ID's [In reply to] Can't Post

???????????????


skyjack71

Nov 17, 2012, 10:43 PM
Post #37879 of 55797 (39107 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Basically you are saying, I'm wrong, DZ is wrong, Marla is wrong, The FBI is wrong??? everyone but you and Duane right?
can we conclude this now?

see a pattern anywhere?

I doubt Marla is right.

I know the FBI made some mistakes in their investigation of Weber - I have pointed them out and I have contacted them for clarification of the very things we just talked about - but the were NOT forthcoming. Fingerprints - Cooper was print phobic - if we can believe what Geoffry wrote.
I do believe that to be true.

Now do YOU see a pattern?

The FBI was contacted about a letter I received regarding Eugene and an individual who was there....long before Marla ever mentioned Santa and Eugene. If the DNA on that matches the DNA on the tie - well, then I have a watch the FBI can swab for DNA. Strange that all things go to Eugene. DL, Santa, Tina Mucklow and XXXX.

This was probably the weirdest part of this whole thing I have experienced. I didn't make it up because I had a letter about it from around 2001 or 2002. I provided the date to the FBI and the information provided within. It was a puzzle or perhaps just a coincidence - I don't know.


mrshutter45

Nov 18, 2012, 8:16 AM
Post #37880 of 55797 (39077 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Obviously you do not have the records nor access to them. Go back and read my postings. I requested them and I am the only next of kin - but a no GO. "

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones? what would make the difference in your belief? you will only respond by stating Cooper was print phobic?

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

you seem to always put some sort of clause in everything you say, go to the Public Library and use there computer since you can only afford dial up? take the $100 you offered on Marla and get a full background check on Duane or his brother? 17 years and you have not done anything really? you argue with us being wrong, you argue and complain about the FBI being wrong, how about Jo being wrong?

it seems that when you are confronted and things don't match up you get the "Knoss virus" it doesn't paint a pretty picture Jo!


RobertMBlevins

Nov 18, 2012, 10:10 AM
Post #37881 of 55797 (39043 views)
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Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Shutter says in part:

Quote:
'According to records, Marla is the niece of DB Cooper?
KC is DB Cooper?
LD Cooper is DB Cooper?
Gossett is Cooper?
McCoy is Cooper?
List is Cooper?
Dayton is Cooper?
Mayfield is Cooper?
Coffelt is Cooper?

All of these "stories" are all the same, they fail to put them on the plane or show any physical evidence!...'

Point of Order: Two of the phone call discussions and two of the emails I did with reps at the Seattle FBI. All say the same basic thing:

KC has NOT been investigated in any way by the Seattle FBI as a suspect in the case. The reason given, also consistent: They felt from the start that he didn't match the physical description. Okay, fine. You can take that as you will, but KC's prints and DNA have NEVER been checked against what limited physical evidence they have in the case. (partial profile, some prints) A DNA sample was submitted some time ago by Lyle Christiansen, taken by agents from the Minneapolis office. They have access to KC's full prints from his military record if they wished to obtain them. Porteous has his thumbprint on an Army record, as well.

I only wanted to make that part of the record. Of course, KC could be a no-match just like the others. But he has NEVER been tested, no matter what you may have heard from others. I made a point with the Seattle FBI to clarify this fact, and they confirmed it more than once. Just saying.

Georger says in part:

Quote:
'When Tom says This is business now, I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Nov 18, 2012, 12:25 PM)


georger

Nov 18, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #37882 of 55797 (39010 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'When Tom says This is business now, I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.
No, you should ask Tom Kaye about this, since you
are the one curious about it@!

Now confess. You have a year's supply of Twinkie's
hidden somewhere? With the rest of your Survivalist
gear and a copy of "Inquisitions for Dummies" ...

Your persistent problem apparently in life, is you
dont know the difference between "book writers"
and "pimps". Or doing research and writing a book
vs. pimping.

I support legitimate book writers. I don;t support
PIMPS!

This distinction is akin to the difference between shit
and gold. Something most people learn very early in
life! Your nose may be out of joint (out of wack). It
could be a permanent condition you and your fellow
&*&%s will have to learn to cope with, or find
another hobby, while devoting renewed energy and
devotion to your primary source of being you
discovered somewhere along the way -
housecleaning.

In your case, we shall not go up and down together.
You need to get over your personal political
delusions.

We are, for all practical purposes, different species.


(This post was edited by georger on Nov 18, 2012, 2:30 PM)


MeyerLouie

Nov 18, 2012, 2:44 PM
Post #37883 of 55797 (38979 views)
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Re: [Pat71] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
D B Cooper was Colonel Hugh Gordon Waite. He was a paratrooper. He spoke French. He was a native of Oregon and is buried in Portland. He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore. There are pictures at his daughters web site of him wearing that tie. DB Cooper has never been identified because he lived after the crime.
----------------------------------------------------------
I don't follow that last sentence, but do you have the daughter's website information? MeyerLouie
----------------------------------------------------------


skyjack71

Nov 18, 2012, 3:43 PM
Post #37884 of 55797 (38961 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones?


Wrong - this was done yrs ago and no way to check the John Collins name....Duane's reports came in DECEASED...no information available. You seem to think it is very easy to obtain information like that - no it is NOT. I have Duane's employment records and they have been posted from 1969 to 1995 when he deceased. I only took them to 1976 because I knew the record after that. The yrs from 1962 to 1968 are under John Collins and not available.

In reply to:
you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

I made that offer because I knew NO one would take me up on it, but had they have done so I would have paid for it. As for the Brother - I do not have his SS number and it has been tried, but all that comes up is deceased.

You seem to not realize there is such a thing as Privacy Laws. Not just anyone can obtain certain records...unless you KNOW some way to do it illegally.

In 17 yrs I have done more than any other person as done including the FBI.

It seems you have taken Knosses place in the thread!


BobKnoss

Nov 18, 2012, 3:47 PM
Post #37885 of 55797 (39380 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Obviously you do not have the records nor access to them. Go back and read my postings. I requested them and I am the only next of kin - but a no GO. "

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones? what would make the difference in your belief? you will only respond by stating Cooper was print phobic?

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

you seem to always put some sort of clause in everything you say, go to the Public Library and use there computer since you can only afford dial up? take the $100 you offered on Marla and get a full background check on Duane or his brother? 17 years and you have not done anything really? you argue with us being wrong, you argue and complain about the FBI being wrong, how about Jo being wrong?

it seems that when you are confronted and things don't match up you get the "Knoss virus" it doesn't paint a pretty picture Jo!

Jo is RIGHT and you are wrong. The FBI is fibbing and YOU push the phony buttons. Pile up all your phony evidence and lose it like the real evidence. Investigate some more stupid Wild Goose Chase theories like micro-photographic analysis of cut parachute chords. Jo knows damned good and well what happened and YOU can't change facts. Check the REAL FBI/Pentegon files on this case. What a JOKE!!


(This post was edited by BobKnoss on Nov 18, 2012, 3:50 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 18, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #37886 of 55797 (39360 views)
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Re: [BobKnoss] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
"Obviously you do not have the records nor access to them. Go back and read my postings. I requested them and I am the only next of kin - but a no GO. "

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones? what would make the difference in your belief? you will only respond by stating Cooper was print phobic?

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

you seem to always put some sort of clause in everything you say, go to the Public Library and use there computer since you can only afford dial up? take the $100 you offered on Marla and get a full background check on Duane or his brother? 17 years and you have not done anything really? you argue with us being wrong, you argue and complain about the FBI being wrong, how about Jo being wrong?

it seems that when you are confronted and things don't match up you get the "Knoss virus" it doesn't paint a pretty picture Jo!

Jo is RIGHT and you are wrong. The FBI is fibbing and YOU push the phony buttons. Pile up all your phony evidence and lose it like the real evidence. Investigate some more stupid Wild Goose Chase theories like micro-photographic analysis of cut parachute chords. Jo knows damned good and well what happened and YOU can't change facts. Check the REAL FBI/Pentegon files on this case. What a JOKE!!

The Pentagon has no involvement in this case (other than the scrambled A/C, and that is just a few logs books entries), the FBI has been forthcoming (as much as they can in an open investigation), it is just that You and others don't like that fact the evidence DOES NOT back up the story. Your fable most of all, as it slanders a good bunch of innocent people.

A Nixon staffer just rebuked your WHOLE President Nixon involvement fable, BTW. A good deal of that staff still lives, is very politically involved, and not to keen on being slandered in such a way. This staffer and his assistant happened to be pretty perturbed, but as they see you have been removed/blocked from all sources and web pages with the exception of this thread, they are considering you "contained", "a harmless threat", "maybe suffering the early signs of a medical condition", and at worse "a delusional old man".

Matt


mrshutter45

Nov 18, 2012, 4:26 PM
Post #37887 of 55797 (39359 views)
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Re: [BobKnoss] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bob, you have nothing to say about this or anything connected to DB Cooper, zero credibility Bob....period!!

"they are considering you "contained", "a harmless threat", "maybe suffering the early signs of a medical condition", and at worse "a delusional old man". "

Now that is some real facts Bobby! stay away like you have been doing Bob, it might not be a good idea continuing your Fable much longer!


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Nov 18, 2012, 4:31 PM)


mrshutter45

Nov 18, 2012, 4:34 PM
Post #37888 of 55797 (39348 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] What Can We Conclude? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jo did Duanes brother die in 2001 in West Palm beach?

is this him?
JOHN C WEBER
Birth date: Oct 14, 1911Death date: Jan 31, 2001SSN: 167-14-9714State Issued: PAResidence location: Lake Worth, Florida, 33462Residence county: Palm BeachPayment location: [Unknown], [Unknown], [Unknown]Payment county:

or this
JOHN C WEBER
Birth date: Aug 27, 1922Death date: Sep 5, 2001SSN: 286-16-0573State Issued: OHResidence location: Lakeview, Ohio, 43331Residence county: LoganPayment location: [Unknown], [Unknown], [Unknown]Payment county:


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Nov 18, 2012, 4:58 PM)


MeyerLouie

Nov 18, 2012, 4:36 PM
Post #37889 of 55797 (39344 views)
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Re: [georger] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'When Tom says This is business now, I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.

No, you should ask Tom Kaye about this, since you
are the one curious about it@!

Now confess. You have a year's supply of Twinkie's
hidden somewhere? With the rest of your Survivalist
gear and a copy of "Inquisitions for Dummies" ...

Your persistent problem apparently in life, is you
dont know the difference between "book writers"
and "pimps". Or doing research and writing a book
vs. pimping.

I support legitimate book writers. I don;t support
PIMPS!

This distinction is akin to the difference between shit
and gold. Something most people learn very early in
life! Your nose may be out of joint (out of wack). It
could be a permanent condition you and your fellow
&*&%s will have to learn to cope with, or find
another hobby, while devoting renewed energy and
devotion to your primary source of being you
discovered somewhere along the way -
housecleaning.

In your case, we shall not go up and down together.
You need to get over your personal political
delusions.

We are, for all practical purposes, different species.---------------------------------------------------------
Blevins,
I'm tired of getting after you, it's a broken record -- you will never change. Instead, today, rather than criticize you, I am going to put up my "Top 10 List" of questions I have come up with since recently re-reading Skyjack, Norjak, and Blast:

1. How did DBC get to the Portland airport?
Accomplice(s)?
2. Why didn't Geoff Gray write a book that makes it
easier to find things (his subsections are dates,
not descriptive subtitles, thus making it almost
impossible to backtrack and find something that
you had read previously; also, writing non-fiction
like it's a novel is a tough format, another
format may have been better)?
3. Why wasn't Cooper afraid of being recognized?
4. Why did Cooper take the bogus chute?
5. Why is there so much difference in the DBC
ID/descriptions by the eye witnesses (Tina spent
5 hours with him, I think I trust her description
the most -- hey, I thought flight people were
supposed to be trained in this kind of thing).
6. What chance is there that DBC landed in the
water? (If you read Farf's analysis of this, a 1%
of a 1% chance would be very generous).
7. Why didn't DBC bail out south of Portland?
8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?
9. Was Jake from Walla Walla State Pen being
truthful (he has evidence you know )?
10. And of course, the big one -- How did the money
get to Tena's Bar?

There Blevins, I feel better. Focusing on the case rather focusing on you and your schtick is much better. MeyerLouie

Note: I don't use caps anymore.


Robert99

Nov 18, 2012, 5:31 PM
Post #37890 of 55797 (39320 views)
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THE NEW THREAD "JUMPED A 55 YEAR OLD 26' CONCIAL" [In reply to] Can't Post

Take a look at the above listed new thread that was posted late today on this forum. While the parachute that Cooper presumably used is similiar to this one, Cooper's chute was unmodified and did not have (so far as is known) the vents in the rear of the canopy.

Also, Cooper's chute is reported not to have had the "separable links" connecting the risers to the shroud lines. Instead, his chute is reported to have the shroud lines sewn to the risers.

Be sure to take a look at the pictures as well as read the post.

Robert99


377  (F 666)

Nov 18, 2012, 6:01 PM
Post #37891 of 55797 (39309 views)
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Re: [MeyerLouie] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore

I'm not a camera guy, but aren't shutters pretty well protected behind the lens? How would they shed titanium on a tie?

377


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 18, 2012, 6:08 PM
Post #37892 of 55797 (39306 views)
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Re: [377] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore

I'm not a camera guy, but aren't shutters pretty well protected behind the lens? How would they shed titanium on a tie?

377

Would a camera of the period be able to shed the material during a film unload/reload?

Matt


EVickiW

Nov 18, 2012, 6:16 PM
Post #37893 of 55797 (39303 views)
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Re: [Pat71] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
D B Cooper was Colonel Hugh Gordon Waite. He was a paratrooper. He spoke French. He was a native of Oregon and is buried in Portland. He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore. There are pictures at his daughters web site of him wearing that tie. DB Cooper has never been identified because he lived after the crime.

http://www.dropzone.com/...ugh%20waite;#4142654

Pat, you may want to refer back to the previous conversation on this thread (Post #24310). Why bring it up again when it looks like he was with his family skiing in the Alps over the Thanksgiving holiday.


RobertMBlevins

Nov 18, 2012, 6:26 PM
Post #37894 of 55797 (39299 views)
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Re: [georger] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Georger says in part:

Quote:
'When Tom says This is business now, I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.

Georger: No, you should ask Tom Kaye about this, since you are the one curious about it@!

Robert replies to this: YOU were the one who brought it up. I couldn't care less. I only heard something about a possible CS team book later.

G: Now confess. You have a year's supply of Twinkie's hidden somewhere? With the rest of your Survivalist gear and a copy of "Inquisitions for Dummies" ...

Robert: Don't eat much sugar. I keep three five gallon containers of freeze-dried food packs I bought via Amazon. Usual medical supplies. I don't believe the world will end on 12-21-2012. Mankind doesn't deserve to get off that easy.

G: Your persistent problem apparently in life, is you dont know the difference between "book writers" and "pimps". Or doing research and writing a book vs. pimping.

I support legitimate book writers. I don;t support
PIMPS!

Robert: Your opinion. I wrote several books BEFORE Cooper, you know. I've edited maybe fifty others. All of the ones I wrote personally still sell to one degree or another, even today. I'd say that makes me more of an artist, less of a pimp. Cooper isn't even the biggest seller for me, either.

G: This distinction is akin to the difference between shit and gold. Something most people learn very early in life! Your nose may be out of joint (out of wack). It could be a permanent condition you and your fellow &*&%s will have to learn to cope with, or find another hobby, while devoting renewed energy and devotion to your primary source of being you
discovered somewhere along the way - housecleaning.

Robert: Before I ditched my regular job and went out on my own, I was the warehouse manager for a major carpet company in Seattle. I organized and assigned dozens of installations a day, and once made a deal for our company that saved them a quarter of a million dollars a year. Before that, I was one of three senior managers for the old Sleep Train warehouse in Auburn and responsible for dozens of employees. I will take my present employment any day of the week.

G: In your case, we shall not go up and down together. You need to get over your personal political delusions.

We are, for all practical purposes, different species.
Robert: Political delusions? That belongs in the realm of Faux News addicts and DC stonewallers. I'm a lifelong registered Dem. Enough said. You also called me a liar about saying you were raised in Washington state, but you didn't respond to Geoff Gray's quote in his book that says you were. If you were...I expect a retraction on the 'liar' tag. If we are different species, the main difference is my single mom made sure I was raised with a few manners. Angelic


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Nov 18, 2012, 6:30 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Nov 18, 2012, 6:52 PM
Post #37895 of 55797 (39286 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate double-posting, but I guess I should answer MeyerLouie's questions:

'Blevins,
I'm tired of getting after you, it's a broken record -- you will never change. Instead, today, rather than criticize you, I am going to put up my "Top 10 List" of questions I have come up with since recently re-reading Skyjack, Norjak, and Blast:

Robert says: I can't answer for Geoff Gray or Himmelsbach's books.

1. How did DBC get to the Portland airport?
Accomplice(s)?

Robert: Okay...but it's a theory. We (Porteous and yours truly) think Bernie Geestman picked up KC at his apartment in Sumner either in another vehicle or his recently-purchased station wagon, and drove him to Portland. Then we believe (now) that Geestman drove up to his property in Oakville, camped out in his new trailer, and waited for a phone call. There was no house at that time, but only a shop building. We know there was power to the shop, but we can't say for sure there was a phone. I should have asked Margaret Geestman if there was a phone. My bad. Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.

2. Why didn't Geoff Gray write a book that makes it
easier to find things (his subsections are dates,
not descriptive subtitles, thus making it almost
impossible to backtrack and find something that
you had read previously; also, writing non-fiction
like it's a novel is a tough format, another
format may have been better)?

Robert: I agree with most of what you say about the format on Skyjack. What I thought was missing the most was a detailed start-to-finish timeline regarding the hijacking. You know, like: '4:20PM Cooper boards 305...' etc. from there right up to Reno and the search later. (Yes, I know it wasn't 4:20PM)

3. Why wasn't Cooper afraid of being recognized?

Robert: (KC response only) We know KC only flew maybe a couple of times a month. We also know he only did the Orient routes. We also know from NWA that the crews were compartmentalized. We know most people who worked with KC hardly remembered him. We know the hijacker was adamant about not allowing any of the male flight crew to even catch a look at him. Conclusion: Once Cooper boarded, if he was sure the stews did not know him, he (KC) might have decided at that point to go through with his plan. Again, though...it's just a theory. On a side note, if Geestman was the accomplice, we also believe he was the one who talked Kenny into doing it. We base this on what we know about him, and what followed later regarding Geestman, including his appearance on Decoded. If he was involved, he definitely got a piece of the pie. To support this, I point to his ability to build a new home not long after the hijacking on his property in Oakville, his wife's spending on a wooded lot in Bonney Lake, horses, and other items...and the purchase of the ranch in Twisp, WA. Margaret, in her interviews, was pretty dodgy on how they managed these purchases.

4. Why did Cooper take the bogus chute?

Robert: (KC response) Missed it? Hadn't jumped in 25 years? (KC's last jump was in 46-47. As far as we know, he never jumped civilian.

5. Why is there so much difference in the DBC
ID/descriptions by the eye witnesses (Tina spent
5 hours with him, I think I trust her description
the most -- hey, I thought flight people were
supposed to be trained in this kind of thing).

Robert: This is common in eyewitness accounts, that is, for people to see the same person yet give varying descriptions. Robert Gregory was sure the hijacker was no taller than five-nine. (Pg 92, Skyjack.) Others said up to six-one, six-two. What the heck? When they catch perps and then you compare them in person to the sketch that was issued, sometimes those are quite different. I don't know. The sketch is what it is. One thing it isn't is a photograph of the hijacker, although some people believe it is.

6. What chance is there that DBC landed in the
water? (If you read Farf's analysis of this, a 1%
of a 1% chance would be very generous).

Robert: I suggested that it was a very low chance, too. And I got pounded on for saying it. I just looked at the total amount of water available to the land available and made a guess. Low chance of a water landing.

7. Why didn't DBC bail out south of Portland?

Robert: (General response, KC, anyone) Because he had no intention of remaining on board any longer than it took to get to jump altitude. Think about it. He wanted to take off with the stairs already lowered. That doesn't sound like someone who is planning on hanging around long. In fact, this request is one thing Porteous and I thought led to the idea the hijacker was very local to Puget Sound. Say...Bonney Lake, for example. (*smiles*)

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Robert: I doubt it. Maybe a walkie talkie, who knows? I think he was just planning to walk to a pay phone. Back then they were everywhere.

9. Was Jake from Walla Walla State Pen being
truthful (he has evidence you know )?

Robert: I am not familiar with this Jake from Walla Walla evidence. On another point though, I have heard claims lately that the SkyChef restaurant in Portland was closed on the day of the hijacking, yet Cooper used SkyChef matches. SkyChef also provided the meals for NWA flights. It's occurred to me that a flight crew member might have a few boxes of those matches at home. NWA crews were well-known to take home everything they could get away with. I once dated an NWA stew for a brief time. Two of her kitchen cabinets were full of little liquor bottles.

10. And of course, the big one -- How did the money
get to Tena's Bar?

Robert: Planted, dredged there, or washed down. Hell, I don't know. This could be a question that would be solved AFTER the hijacking is solved. I've leaned back and forth on this one. Sometimes I think plant, sometimes dredge. I don't go with the washdown theory.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Nov 18, 2012, 8:13 PM)


Farflung

Nov 18, 2012, 8:23 PM
Post #37896 of 55797 (39231 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins says:

Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.


Or you could just mail her one of those disposable phones for $25 and save some serious time and money.

http://www.walmart.com/...;wl5=pla&veh=sem

Nahhhh, too much fun blundering around for a single data point. Never mind.


377  (F 666)

Nov 18, 2012, 8:45 PM
Post #37897 of 55797 (39214 views)
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Re: [EVickiW] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Vicki wrote
Quote:
http://www.dropzone.com/...ugh%20waite;#4142654

Pat, you may want to refer back to the previous conversation on this thread (Post #24310). Why bring it up again when it looks like he was with his family skiing in the Alps over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Thanks Vicki. Your sharp memory saved a forum detour.

377


MeyerLouie

Nov 18, 2012, 8:47 PM
Post #37898 of 55797 (39207 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I hate double-posting, but I guess I should answer MeyerLouie's questions:

'Blevins,
I'm tired of getting after you, it's a broken record -- you will never change. Instead, today, rather than criticize you, I am going to put up my "Top 10 List" of questions I have come up with since recently re-reading Skyjack, Norjak, and Blast:

Robert says: I can't answer for Geoff Gray or Himmelsbach's books.

1. How did DBC get to the Portland airport?
Accomplice(s)?

Robert: Okay...but it's a theory. We (Porteous and yours truly) think Bernie Geestman picked up KC at his apartment in Sumner either in another vehicle or his recently-purchased station wagon, and drove him to Portland. Then we believe (now) that Geestman drove up to his property in Oakville, camped out in his new trailer, and waited for a phone call. There was no house at that time, but only a shop building. We know there was power to the shop, but we can't say for sure there was a phone. I should have asked Margaret Geestman if there was a phone. My bad. Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.

2. Why didn't Geoff Gray write a book that makes it
easier to find things (his subsections are dates,
not descriptive subtitles, thus making it almost
impossible to backtrack and find something that
you had read previously; also, writing non-fiction
like it's a novel is a tough format, another
format may have been better)?

Robert: I agree with most of what you say about the format on Skyjack. What I thought was missing the most was a detailed start-to-finish timeline regarding the hijacking. You know, like: '4:20PM Cooper boards 305...' etc. from there right up to Reno and the search later. (Yes, I know it wasn't 4:20PM)

3. Why wasn't Cooper afraid of being recognized?

Robert: (KC response only) We know KC only flew maybe a couple of times a month. We also know he only did the Orient routes. We also know from NWA that the crews were compartmentalized. We know most people who worked with KC hardly remembered him. We know the hijacker was adamant about not allowing any of the male flight crew to even catch a look at him. Conclusion: Once Cooper boarded, if he was sure the stews did not know him, he (KC) might have decided at that point to go through with his plan. Again, though...it's just a theory. On a side note, if Geestman was the accomplice, we also believe he was the one who talked Kenny into doing it. We base this on what we know about him, and what followed later regarding Geestman, including his appearance on Decoded. If he was involved, he definitely got a piece of the pie. To support this, I point to his ability to build a new home not long after the hijacking on his property in Oakville, his wife's spending on a wooded lot in Bonney Lake, horses, and other items...and the purchase of the ranch in Twisp, WA. Margaret, in her interviews, was pretty dodgy on how they managed these purchases.

4. Why did Cooper take the bogus chute?

Robert: (KC response) Missed it? Hadn't jumped in 25 years? (KC's last jump was in 46-47. As far as we know, he never jumped civilian.

5. Why is there so much difference in the DBC
ID/descriptions by the eye witnesses (Tina spent
5 hours with him, I think I trust her description
the most -- hey, I thought flight people were
supposed to be trained in this kind of thing).

Robert: This is common in eyewitness accounts, that is, for people to see the same person yet give varying descriptions. Robert Gregory was sure the hijacker was no taller than five-nine. (Pg 92, Skyjack.) Others said up to six-one, six-two. What the heck? When they catch perps and then you compare them in person to the sketch that was issued, sometimes those are quite different. I don't know. The sketch is what it is. One thing it isn't is a photograph of the hijacker, although some people believe it is.

6. What chance is there that DBC landed in the
water? (If you read Farf's analysis of this, a 1%
of a 1% chance would be very generous).

Robert: I suggested that it was a very low chance, too. And I got pounded on for saying it. I just looked at the total amount of water available to the land available and made a guess. Low chance of a water landing.

7. Why didn't DBC bail out south of Portland?

Robert: (General response, KC, anyone) Because he had no intention of remaining on board any longer than it took to get to jump altitude. Think about it. He wanted to take off with the stairs already lowered. That doesn't sound like someone who is planning on hanging around long. In fact, this request is one thing Porteous and I thought led to the idea the hijacker was very local to Puget Sound. Say...Bonney Lake, for example. (*smiles*)

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Robert: I doubt it. Maybe a walkie talkie, who knows? I think he was just planning to walk to a pay phone. Back then they were everywhere.

9. Was Jake from Walla Walla State Pen being
truthful (he has evidence you know )?

Robert: I am not familiar with this Jake from Walla Walla evidence. On another point though, I have heard claims lately that the SkyChef restaurant in Portland was closed on the day of the hijacking, yet Cooper used SkyChef matches. SkyChef also provided the meals for NWA flights. It's occurred to me that a flight crew member might have a few boxes of those matches at home. NWA crews were well-known to take home everything they could get away with. I once dated an NWA stew for a brief time. Two of her kitchen cabinets were full of little liquor bottles.

10. And of course, the big one -- How did the money
get to Tena's Bar?

Robert: Planted, dredged there, or washed down. Hell, I don't know. This could be a question that would be solved AFTER the hijacking is solved. I've leaned back and forth on this one. Sometimes I think plant, sometimes dredge. I don't go with the washdown theory.
----------------------------------------------------------
Blevins: you were the last person I wanted to respond to my top 10 list. If you had some credibility, scruples, tact, scholarship, or professionalism, then I might value your opinion, but I don't. My top 10 list was fodder for the forum, I was not expecting a response to every question, from you -- of all people. I haven't even read your replies to the 10 questions -- I don't have to an I don't want to -- because I already know what you're going to say before you say it. You've repeated yourself so many times here, you've picked the low hanging fruit so often here, you're a broken record.
MeyerLouie


Actually Blevins, I just read some (only a couple) of your answers to my 10 questions -- and I am already regretting it. You really are a broken record. How do I put it -- nobody cares what you think, Blevins. MeyerLouie

-----------------------------------------------------------


(This post was edited by MeyerLouie on Nov 18, 2012, 8:56 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Nov 18, 2012, 8:53 PM
Post #37899 of 55797 (39201 views)
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Re: [Farflung] Point of Order [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
RobertMBlevins says:

Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.

Or you could just mail her one of those disposable phones for $25 and save some serious time and money.

http://www.walmart.com/...;wl5=pla&veh=sem

Nahhhh, too much fun blundering around for a single data point. Never mind.

You could have just asked. Before her last interview, the one I did after History Channel showed up in Bonney Lake, I had a Trac Phone mailed to her with 250 minutes pre-loaded. History Channel's Marisa Kagan spoke to her a couple of times, and I called her while I was on my way there. When I arrived, she had let the phone discharge and told me she didn't WANT a phone at the ranch. Go figure. Since she wasn't even bothering to charge the thing, I didn't bother purchasing any more minutes for her.

Lesson: If you want to interview her, just drive there and show up. She will talk to you. But be careful. She has a dog and keeps a shotgun behind the kitchen door. Considering all the smashed-in doors, I don't blame her. Bring snacks for the dog and the big black horse for better results.

Attached: Picture of the house from the main road. I don't have a problem with giving out the address, but not on a public forum. Serious investigators would have to contact me personally on this. Her public address is a PO box in town.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Nov 18, 2012, 9:00 PM)
Attachments: margieshouseskipppic.gif (212 KB)


377  (F 666)

Nov 18, 2012, 8:54 PM
Post #37900 of 55797 (39198 views)
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Re: [EVickiW] New evidence about money find at Tina's Bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info.

McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft.

377


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