Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
New Zealand Fatality

 

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Rover  (D 241)

Nov 14, 2012, 10:34 PM
Post #1 of 58 (6337 views)
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New Zealand Fatality Can't Post

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10847683

I have no other details.


Rover  (D 241)

Nov 15, 2012, 9:47 AM
Post #2 of 58 (5787 views)
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Re: [Rover] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10847754


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 15, 2012, 9:53 AM
Post #3 of 58 (5774 views)
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Re: [Rover] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

No RSL, no AAD?


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 15, 2012, 10:42 AM
Post #4 of 58 (5686 views)
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Re: [normiss] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No RSL, no AAD?

It sounds from the description like a mal with a low reserve deployment so there is every possibility that neither of those would have helped if he cutaway too low.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
Post #5 of 58 (5667 views)
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Re: [DocPop] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed, except for the mention of the distance from the main.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Nov 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
Post #6 of 58 (5615 views)
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Re: [normiss] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

He was shooting video so almost certainly no AAD.


linestretch  (D 21060)

Nov 15, 2012, 12:01 PM
Post #7 of 58 (5540 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

How does that work? I've been shooting vid for a while and have always had an AAD. You mean RSL?


jf951  (D License)

Nov 15, 2012, 12:44 PM
Post #8 of 58 (5463 views)
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Re: [Rover] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, that's really sad, he was a great guy, a lot of fun to work with and jump with, I'm certainly going to miss him.

Fly free
Have fun out there


Rover  (D 241)

Nov 15, 2012, 1:44 PM
Post #9 of 58 (5357 views)
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Re: [normiss] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

AADs are compulsory at 95% NZ DZs


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 15, 2012, 2:19 PM
Post #10 of 58 (5295 views)
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Re: [jf951] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wow, that's really sad, he was a great guy, a lot of fun to work with and jump with, I'm certainly going to miss him.

Fly free
Have fun out there

Was he indeed Italian???


5.samadhi

Nov 15, 2012, 2:29 PM
Post #11 of 58 (5277 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
He was shooting video so almost certainly no AAD.
im guessing this is a typo AAD=RSL in your post?


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Nov 15, 2012, 3:06 PM
Post #12 of 58 (5214 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
He was shooting video so almost certainly no AAD.
im guessing this is a typo AAD=RSL in your post?
Yes. That is what I meant.


jf951  (D License)

Nov 15, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #13 of 58 (5198 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Wow, that's really sad, he was a great guy, a lot of fun to work with and jump with, I'm certainly going to miss him.

Fly free
Have fun out there

Was he indeed Italian???

he was, but i dont want to say any names till it gets released properly


highfly  (F 19377)

Nov 15, 2012, 5:00 PM
Post #14 of 58 (5041 views)
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Re: [jf951] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

Name is now present on Herald website.

Antonino Arillotta

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10847864

I hate the way the press use "shoot" as "chute"

BSBD




Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 16, 2012, 12:18 AM
Post #16 of 58 (4664 views)
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Re: [highfly] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

This is most likely Nino, listed here...:

http://www.skydivewanaka.com/about-skydive-wanaka


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 17, 2012, 11:40 AM
Post #17 of 58 (3896 views)
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Re: [normiss] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed, except for the mention of the distance from the main.

Ah yes - I see what you mean.

Anyone know what the winds were like? Or any more equipment details?


PeteS  (D 8230)

Nov 17, 2012, 12:34 PM
Post #18 of 58 (3859 views)
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Re: [DocPop] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

A thought occurred to me, I am hearing that he had an entanglement with the camera mount. If that is true and it was the main that was caught, he might have been free stowing most of his lines. I had spoken to him about this in the past and he did not think it was much of a problem.

I explained about pilot chute malfunction and how it could lead to a big mess of lines all over his back.

Does anyone know if he kept this practice of free stowing all but the locking stows up?

RIP Nino.. you were a good dude.


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Nov 17, 2012, 7:17 PM
Post #19 of 58 (3658 views)
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Re: [PeteS] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reading the article the witness said he heard the parachute and looked up to see the jumper at about 70M (230 feet). If the canopy was elongated (assumption because of noise report) at 230 feet why didn't it inflate? Reserves are supposed to open in no more than 300 feet. It should take about a second to go from pilot chute launch to bag extraction.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 17, 2012, 11:40 PM
Post #20 of 58 (3550 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

>Reserves are supposed to open in no more than 300 feet.

If you are very lucky. There's a reason AAD's fire between 700 and 1000 feet.

Also, keep in mind that people are incredibly bad judges of altitude from the ground.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Nov 18, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #21 of 58 (3338 views)
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Re: [Rover] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

Once again I'll post my opinion that RSL's save lives.

Sorry we've lost what sounds like another great person in our sport. Unsure


nigel99  (D 1)

Nov 18, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #22 of 58 (3138 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Once again I'll post my opinion that RSL's save lives.

Sorry we've lost what sounds like another great person in our sport. Unsure

John, can you expand on your thoughts about rsl? As this was a camera jump, it seems you believe different to 'conventional' wisdom.

Times have changed and cameras are smaller (even when jumping video and SLR) than they used to be, canopies more aggressive, and camera wings are an additional complication. So maybe the argument in favour of an rsl is stronger than the risk now?


jf951  (D License)

Nov 18, 2012, 4:27 PM
Post #23 of 58 (3119 views)
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Re: [highfly] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

has anyone heard any additional information on this aside from the two news articles?
any first or second hand accounts of what happened, or some sort of assessment of the rig?


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Nov 18, 2012, 7:47 PM
Post #24 of 58 (3021 views)
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Re: [billvon] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you are very lucky.

Bill,
I hope you are not saying that you have got to be lucky to get a reserve to open in 300 feet. If you are that is an inditement of our equipment. Sure mains take longer by design but a reserve is required by regulation to open in 300 feet, lucky or not.

Quote:
Also, keep in mind that people are incredibly bad judges of altitude from the ground.

True, but to "hear" and look up to see the object thru inpact is usually worth considering. If he had had an AAD we could tell.

JS

AAD firing altitude was determined by taking the required maximinum deployment distance (300ft) times the 2.5 safety margin commonly used by NASA to get 750 feet. Now some want and will get adjustable firing altitudes to allow them to be adjusted up to 1500 feet AGL. This is something to chew on, but on another thread.


(This post was edited by JohnSherman on Nov 18, 2012, 7:55 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Nov 18, 2012, 8:38 PM
Post #25 of 58 (2984 views)
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Re: [nigel99] New Zealand Fatality [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As this was a camera jump, it seems you believe different to 'conventional' wisdom.

Times have changed and cameras are smaller (even when jumping video and SLR) than they used to be, canopies more aggressive, and camera wings are an additional complication. So maybe the argument in favour of an rsl is stronger than the risk now?
Yes, and when I've jumped the occasional side mount Sony and every jump with my GoPro I leave my RSL hooked up. Although my canopy is not aggressively loaded (a little over 1.3), I still think that too many people think they need to stop spinning in order to fire their reserve. As soon as you chop, you're traveling in a straight line. Perfect time to deploy the reserve. I do consciously tuck my head forward to keep as much room as possible between my reserve and my camera(s).

I see too many videos of cutaways where, instead of putting their feet on their butt and aggressively arching, people flop around like a bad AFF student doing his first diving exit. CrazyTongue I think better training and practice would lead to people having more stable cutaways and reserve deployments.

The ratio of reserves-tangled-on-cameras to cutaway-then-no/low-reserve pull is very low. I'm no expert camera guy or equipment guru. All I know is what I've seen and the reports I've read. I feel people are too eager to ditch the RSL, as if it were like training wheels. Soft pillow handles, big wings, harnesses loosened for swooping and highly loaded canopies seem to sometimes present problems that our friends haven't been able to solve in time. Many would have been saved by a short line of nylon ribbon. Unsure

Food for thought?


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