Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
To hit the tail or not hit the tail?

 


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 5, 2012, 10:26 AM
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To hit the tail or not hit the tail? Can't Post

 
Since Jan 1st 2012 we implemented a pre-rental survey that all new renters must fill out. It is basically a knowledge review.

One of the questions is:

What is the most important factor in a wingsuit exit?

A Achieving maximum performance from the wingsuit upon exit

B Maintaining stability during exit

C Keep all wings tightly closed to prevent the relative wind from inflating the suit until clear of the aircrafts tail.


Out of 120 responses 111 answered C, that is 95.7%. The other 5 were dealt with and punished. There is also a followup question that gets a description of the exit.

While not totally conclusive it tells me that most people know that not hitting things is a top priority.

The test is available online if you are interested. It doesn't score you in realtime as I use it to direct any conversations we have with the customers.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GetWicked


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Nov 5, 2012, 12:51 PM
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

cool idea, have any other useful/informative data?


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 5, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

We need more information on said punishment.
Tongue


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 5, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Re: [dirtbox] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
There are some interesting stats and also some personal conclusion I have come to regarding some of the data. Will be glad to share.

The average number of skydives by a customer is a lot higher than most people would guess I think. 817 with 177 in the last 12 months. If I had to guess without seeing that number I would have expected something more like 250-300.

I always worry that people are so focused on the leg strap check that they would neglect other checks. Of 112 people that correctly said they would check leg straps 8 failed to mention that they would also check chest strap, handles and suit.

There is more but I will have to drip feed it.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 5, 2012, 1:01 PM
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Re: [normiss] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We need more information on said punishment.
Tongue

They were burdened with a small lecture on the importance of avoiding hitting things. Except one had an excuse that he only jumps a skyvan....clever.

Same is true when people put the priority of performance and dropzone over that of avoiding inflight objects such as Tandems.


MrCat  (C License)

Nov 5, 2012, 1:05 PM
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I always worry that people are so focused on the leg strap check that they would neglect other checks. Of 112 people that correctly said they would check leg straps 8 failed to mention that they would also check chest strap, handles and suit.

I thought that particular question was potentially open to interpretation as to how many you should select.

Is it just the most important or all that are important.

Or perhaps I misread the question!


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 5, 2012, 1:13 PM
Post #7 of 23 (2307 views)
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Re: [MrCat] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I always worry that people are so focused on the leg strap check that they would neglect other checks. Of 112 people that correctly said they would check leg straps 8 failed to mention that they would also check chest strap, handles and suit.

I thought that particular question was potentially open to interpretation as to how many you should select.

Is it just the most important or all that are important.

Or perhaps I misread the question!


For those that haven't seen it the question is:

5. What are the most critical items to include in your gear check when wingsuiting?

-Three rings are correctly attaching your main to your rig
-Chest strap correctly routed and tightened
-All handles are correctly in place - Main, Cutaway and Reserve
-Leg straps are correctly buckled, on and tightened
-Wingsuit is sized correctly, attached to rig correctly and zipped up correctly



I can't pretend to be a professional survey writer but I think this one is a bit of a trick. They are check boxes so you can select more than one but I didn't put an "All of the above" option because I thought it would be too easy.

I am looking for someone to check all of them. It is still a skydive using the same equipment as before. The ones I really talk to are the ones that ONLY put legstraps. If you don't check your handles or 3 rings that is a more personal issue and after all you are an experienced skydiver!

The survey isn't a pass or fail. I never had anyone do such a poor job that they were refused service. It is really to help identify what talking points should be discussed.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 5, 2012, 3:28 PM
Post #8 of 23 (2247 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
I always worry that people are so focused on the leg strap check that they would neglect other checks. Of 112 people that correctly said they would check leg straps 8 failed to mention that they would also check chest strap, handles and suit.

I thought that particular question was potentially open to interpretation as to how many you should select.

Is it just the most important or all that are important.

Or perhaps I misread the question!


For those that haven't seen it the question is:

5. What are the most critical items to include in your gear check when wingsuiting?

Well it does say "MOST critical". Which leaves the impression that some are less critical than others.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 5, 2012, 3:33 PM
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Re: [kallend] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

And it says items not item. Trick question you see.


yeyo  (D 32048)

Nov 5, 2012, 5:07 PM
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

I took the survey this morning and checked them all 5....didnt put my name on it Tongue


The111  (D 29246)

Nov 5, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #11 of 23 (2202 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Of 112 people that correctly said they would check leg straps 8 failed to mention that they would also check chest strap, handles and suit.

If we're playing tricky questions, we should at least interpret them at face value.

The question asked was not "what would you check?" It was "what items are most important?" If I deem something as "not the most important," that is not equivalent to saying "I would not check it." I check all sorts of unimportant things as a matter of routine on every skydive. Wink

The most important thing to do on every skydive is to pull, but that doesn't mean that is the only thing I do in the whole jump. Smile


Divalent  (C 40494)

Nov 5, 2012, 7:43 PM
Post #12 of 23 (2173 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I'm not a wingsuiter, the wording of option C leaves a lot to be desired if your aim was to measure their existing awareness of the importance of leaving with your wings closed. OTOH, it is properly worded if your intent was more to educate/remind them of what they should do (which is probably a better thing to do). I say this because option C alludes to a bad consequence of failing to keep the wings open, but (for example) option B does not.

For example, if you instead used these options for B and C, I suspect a lot more would go for something other than C:

B: Maintaining stability during exit to minimize the possibility of entering an uncontrolled spin.

C: Keep all wings tightly closed.


Pendragon  (D 104102)

Nov 6, 2012, 7:26 AM
Post #13 of 23 (2040 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd just change the question from:

5. What are the most critical items to include in your gear check when wingsuiting?

to:

5. Which of the following are critical to perform as part of your flight line check when wingsuiting?

Obviously they all are... but the question doesn't imply anything or lead the reader.

Glad to see someone is making an effort! Smile

Richard


pchapman  (D 1014)

Nov 6, 2012, 2:36 PM
Post #14 of 23 (1929 views)
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Re: [kallend] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
5. What are the most critical items to include in your gear check when wingsuiting?

Well it does say "MOST critical". Which leaves the impression that some are less critical than others.

And it says "when wingsuiting".
Which can leave people wondering whether that means "as opposed to when just regular skydiving".

In which case, something like a 3-ring check isn't any more important than usual, but leg strap checks are.

(Your overall aim is good; just that picking just the right way to ask the questions is trickier.)


5.samadhi

Nov 6, 2012, 4:33 PM
Post #15 of 23 (1894 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What is the most important factor in a wingsuit exit?

A Achieving maximum performance from the wingsuit upon exit

B Maintaining stability during exit

C Keep all wings tightly closed to prevent the relative wind from inflating the suit until clear of the aircrafts tail.
Obviously the answer is letter A. If you hit the tail you will not be maximizing performance of the wingsuit (because you will probably be tumbling in a bloody mess), so whatever is maximizing performance entails that you will not hit the tail.


(This post was edited by 5.samadhi on Nov 6, 2012, 4:34 PM)


Rozbun

Nov 6, 2012, 5:36 PM
Post #16 of 23 (1865 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

So missing the tail by an inch is fine then? :)


(This post was edited by Rozbun on Nov 6, 2012, 5:36 PM)


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Nov 6, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #17 of 23 (1853 views)
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Re: [pchapman] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some good feedback and as always some amusing input. I am going to make some adjustments and report back in 100 more entries!


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 6, 2012, 6:00 PM
Post #18 of 23 (1851 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

Only if you smoke crack before jumping.
Unimpressed


5.samadhi

Nov 6, 2012, 7:31 PM
Post #19 of 23 (1825 views)
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Re: [normiss] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Only if you smoke crack before jumping.
Unimpressed
you dont Unsure


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Nov 7, 2012, 5:47 AM
Post #20 of 23 (1739 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would suggest smoking meth not crack.


5.samadhi

Nov 7, 2012, 7:43 PM
Post #21 of 23 (1609 views)
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Re: [Mr_Polite] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

That puts a new meaning on staying up longer


snowcrash75  (C 33579)

Nov 8, 2012, 11:58 AM
Post #22 of 23 (1532 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Out of 120 responses 111 answered C, that is 95.7%. The other 5 were dealt with and punished.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GetWicked

OK, I'm no genius. Luckily, I can count to 3. Which is enough. 3 handles, 3 rings, 3 straps. Check em with or without my wingsuit no less than 3 times, more is prudent and advisable and what I do every jump. But that is neither here nor there. I stand before you today to call shananigans! 120 responded and 111 answered correctly. OK. The other 5 were dealt with....huh?? I coulda sworn 120-111=9! Shananigans! Who are these 4 mystery pilots who went unpunished?! NAMES! I demand names!

I smell bribery, coverup, and corruption all the way to the highest nest in our community. Ready your pitchforks and torches, who's comin with me?! Ooo ooo, easy on the fire, not so close to my nylon...


uberchris  (A License)

Nov 8, 2012, 3:12 PM
Post #23 of 23 (1487 views)
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Re: [snowcrash75] To hit the tail or not hit the tail? [In reply to] Can't Post

now i feel like a real asshole. after checking all five of those things, because wingsuit or not they are all pretty important, i ended up unchecking 2...........

i will forever go with my gut feeling from now on. fuck the world and fuck everyones opinions.

=)



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