Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Is he right?

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 21, 2012, 5:48 PM
Post #1 of 28 (2214 views)
Shortcut
Is he right? Can't Post

Quoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!"

Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff?
What FAR would it be in violation of?

Matt


firstime  (B 28972)

Oct 21, 2012, 5:51 PM
Post #2 of 28 (2205 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

huhUnsure


jonstark  (D 8298)

Oct 21, 2012, 6:17 PM
Post #3 of 28 (2174 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't quote you chapter and verse but there is a prohibition on throwing anything from an aircraft.

There are ways that it can be done legally though. USPA developed a checklist of things that must be considered and complied with to get permission from the FAA for this. These were developed for using the "Vladi" ball to get your Atmospheric Dolphin award by releasing the weighted ball in freefall. Skydive City has the permission as does Eloy and others.

jon


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Oct 21, 2012, 6:37 PM
Post #4 of 28 (2139 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think ..of course..it depends.

http://www.eldoks.com/...ing_objects_fro.html

I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 21, 2012, 6:46 PM
Post #5 of 28 (2124 views)
Shortcut
Re: [WickedWingsuits] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think ..of course..it depends.

http://www.eldoks.com/...ing_objects_fro.html

I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies.

Ummm? Your link above is from the "El Dorado Municipal Code" Just between you and me, it doesn't mean shit anywhere else.

Is there an FAA law, USPA BSR, etc.? I'm going to a well established Pumpkin Toss next weekend. I hope this is not the end of an Age-Old Tradition? Unsure


crash450

Oct 21, 2012, 7:02 PM
Post #6 of 28 (2102 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjumpenfool] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the FARs say something to the affect that nothing can be dropped from an aircraft unless it poses no threat to people or property on the ground. Anyway, what is pumpkin chunkin (I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something?


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:08 PM
Post #7 of 28 (2089 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless the regs have changed he's full of shit. Too lazy to look it up but the reg states something to the effect that nothing can be dropped from an aircraft unless care is taken to insure people and property are not damaged on the ground.

Would not be the first time a FSDO inspector had his head up his ass. I seem to remember one grounding a bunch of planes once that had those new fangled Q-tips on them because they were bent.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:12 PM
Post #8 of 28 (2083 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CSpenceFLY] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.risingup.com/.../part91-15-FAR.shtml


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:12 PM
Post #9 of 28 (2082 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!"

Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff?
What FAR would it be in violation of?

Matt

I think he's wrong. The only restriction is that you can't endanger people or property on the ground. So as long as you make the pumpkin jump over open ground, you should be okay.

Sec. 91.15 Dropping objects.

"No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property."

The FSDO don't know shit.

For christ sake, don't tell 'em in that you're going to do it, or ask permission for it. Just do it. Safely.


(This post was edited by CarpeDiem3 on Oct 21, 2012, 7:15 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:29 PM
Post #10 of 28 (2055 views)
Shortcut
Re: [crash450] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something?

In this case... DZO parks a car in the middle of a big field. Cessna passes over(Low). You have to spot, and toss the pupkin at just the right time. The goal is to do damage to the car below. Great fun with a long standing tradition....

Sounds easier than it is. I don't believe anyone has ever even come close. But I could be wrong. Wink


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #11 of 28 (2042 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjumpenfool] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
(I get that it means throwing a pumpkin out,) but do you play catch with it or something?

In this case... DZO parks a car in the middle of a big field. Cessna passes over(Low). You have to spot, and toss the pupkin at just the right time. The goal is to do damage to the car below. Great fun with a long standing tradition....

Sounds easier than it is. I don't believe anyone has ever even come close. But I could be wrong. Wink

This may be part of the issue, if it happens on a public Airport, and not out in a filed with prior consent and "reasonable precautions" (which may be up to the Inspector to accept).

Matt


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:39 PM
Post #12 of 28 (2032 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjumpenfool] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think ..of course..it depends.

http://www.eldoks.com/...ing_objects_fro.html

I used to know a Budweiser distributor in east Texas that would fly over private parties and drop koozies.

Ummm? Your link above is from the "El Dorado Municipal Code" Just between you and me, it doesn't mean shit anywhere else.

Is there an FAA law, USPA BSR, etc.? I'm going to a well established Pumpkin Toss next weekend. I hope this is not the end of an Age-Old Tradition? Unsure

Ooops, I knew there was a FAR i pulled up the wrong item in haste.

Quote:
Sec. 91.15 - Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Oct 21, 2012, 7:59 PM
Post #13 of 28 (2008 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh fer fuck's sake... How many flour drops go on each year around the country.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 21, 2012, 8:13 PM
Post #14 of 28 (1994 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BIGUN] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oh fer fuck's sake... How many flour drops go on each year around the country.

I dunno, but apparently one Punkin Chunkin' Contest has caught the Feds attention. And since we are all so loving and helpful to each other, we know we will all stand behind each other and not throw one another under the FAA bus.Unsure

The question is, weather or not it is a tradition and we have been doing it for years or not, have we been CORRECT in when and how? One Inspector seems to think, NOT.

Matt


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 21, 2012, 8:27 PM
Post #15 of 28 (1984 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Depending on how much shit you want to stir up I'd ask him to show you the reg. that keeps you from doing it. Another option is an e-mail to him and CC to his supervisor with that reg included.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 22, 2012, 2:41 AM
Post #16 of 28 (1857 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed.

As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA.

They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want.

Sparky


robinheid  (D 5533)

Oct 22, 2012, 2:43 AM
Post #17 of 28 (1857 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CarpeDiem3] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quoting a FSDO Inspector: "Punkin Chunkin'? Really? That has not been, and never will be, legal! I find out that is happening, the Pilot, Chunker, Facility Operator, and any on else I can attache to it, will be fined heavy! and lose any and all FAA issued licenses!"

Any "truth" to this boast/Bluff?
What FAR would it be in violation of?

Matt

I think he's wrong. The only restriction is that you can't endanger people or property on the ground. So as long as you make the pumpkin jump over open ground, you should be okay.

Sec. 91.15 Dropping objects.

"No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property."

The FSDO don't know shit.

For christ sake, don't tell 'em in that you're going to do it, or ask permission for it. Just do it. Safely.

Actually, there's another way that works too. Years ago, I was working with Felix B. on a IMAX movie to be shot on a Denver street. Base jump from a building plus a helicopter flying backwards and sideways down the street to film a "calvary charge" by several cars and trucks.

FAA guy issued the chopper permit, then demanded that Felix and I have USPA PRO ratings for the BASE jump, which shut the production down because Felix didn't have one.

So I checked FAR 105, which specifically states that it is related to parachuting from aircraft, then called the FAA guy and left a message in which I pointed that out - and then added: "Oh, by the way, if you insist on involving the FAA in a BASE jump, you would be the very first FAA offical in 20 years to decide on your own authority that such involvement was necessary. Thanks for your help on the chopper permit. Bye!"

One hour later, the location manager called and said that the FAA guy had called him in a panic, "insisting" that he had never actually demanded PRO ratings for the BASE jump and that it was all a misunderstanding and please forget that he had said anything about it...

The next day, Felix and I made our jumps and completed the shoot.

44
Cool


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 22, 2012, 7:04 AM
Post #18 of 28 (1717 views)
Shortcut
Re: [robinheid] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool story, but when we are talking about GA used in Skydiving on Public access airports, it seems that the FAA has the ability to Say, "No" to this activity, and win when they do.

Matt


jumpwally  (D License)

Oct 22, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #19 of 28 (1698 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember that story from long ago,,,they never let him fly again ? Damn,,,is the complete story around somewhere Thanks


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 22, 2012, 8:02 AM
Post #20 of 28 (1663 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed.

As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA.

They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want.

Sparky


Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 22, 2012, 8:17 AM
Post #21 of 28 (1639 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CSpenceFLY] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed.

As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA.

They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want.

Sparky


Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you.

Well, fortunately for me I was not a "Chunker" or even present at the event. Plus, I just got word that I need not worry about it any more.

But maybe the DZO's hosting these events would do well to cross their "T's" and dot their "I's", prior to the event, to be safe.

Matt


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Oct 22, 2012, 10:10 AM
Post #22 of 28 (1581 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jumpwally] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remember that story from long ago,,,they never let him fly again ? Damn,,,is the complete story around somewhere Thanks

.....................................................................

Bob Hoover eventually got his FAA medical back and was allowed to resume flying, but it was a long and bitter legal battle and the only people who enjoyed it were the lawyers.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 22, 2012, 1:00 PM
Post #23 of 28 (1489 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I was told by a reliable source that the FAA has two catch-all charges, Careless operation and Reckless operation. With these two charges they do not have to directly site an FAR, but rather just state that safe operating procedures were not followed.

As for dropping things from a plane, I spent over 20 years dropping test items out of planes. Many of them because of the FAA.

They stopped Bob Hover from flying; they can do just about anything they want.

Sparky


Sparky is right, if they want you, they will get you.

Well, fortunately for me I was not a "Chunker" or even present at the event. Plus, I just got word that I need not worry about it any more.

But maybe the DZO's hosting these events would do well to cross their "T's" and dot their "I's", prior to the event, to be safe.

Matt

I guess I missed how the FAA got involved in this. Pumpkin Chunkin' has been done all over the country and I have only heard of one incident, years ago, where any damage has occurred. Of course, people use to be able to spot also.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 22, 2012, 1:15 PM
Post #24 of 28 (1467 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CSpenceFLY] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't post how the Inspector got asked the question, because I wasn't there, but it is a DZ fight across states lines. I am just glad I am not involved now.

Matt


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 22, 2012, 5:47 PM
Post #25 of 28 (1373 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Is he right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Skydivers are their own worst enemy.


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : General Skydiving Discussions

 


Search for (options)