Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Tracking concerns?

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

dsemac91  (A 63513)

Oct 18, 2012, 6:33 AM
Post #1 of 26 (5518 views)
Shortcut
Tracking concerns? Can't Post

I've lurked this forum for a while now, before I even got my A license.... guess its time i finally posted lol.


My issue is with my tracking, I think tracking is fun I like it a lot in fact, but often when I straighten my legs out and bring my arms back I start something that feels like teeter tottering back and forth, can't think of a better way to describe it.

I'm sure with out a video of me it'd be hard to say, but does anyone have some advice I should consider about tracking?


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Oct 18, 2012, 6:50 AM
Post #2 of 26 (5485 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

welcome to skydiving man! tracking is a great skill that takes a lot of jumps to perfect, but there are a couple common issues like you describe that are easy to deal with. first most likely what is causing your teeter totter effect is that your legs are too close together. try widening your stand a bit which will greatly improve your stabiliy. secondly people tend to dive a bit when learning to track, so its important that your are pushing against the air with your arms and cupping as much air as possible to get good altitude conservation.

far flat fast are the trademarks of a good track. keep practicing!


Scrumpot  (D License)

Oct 18, 2012, 10:53 AM
Post #3 of 26 (5341 views)
Shortcut
Re: [waveoff5500] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

More likely he is "teeter-tottering" because he is getting very little actual forward momentum/drive, and is at a progression point where his "ground-based instincts" are still over-riding his (still to be better developed) air/flight-based ones. In other words, his involuntary reactions and resultant body position ("balance" signals coming from his brain/inner-ear) is to correct for vertical (standing, not head-down) instability - and thus he is "teeter-tottering" the length (vertical axis) of his body, not lateral instability - as your leg-width suggestion would rather have him correct.

dsemac - You are right, without video though, there is absolutely no way for ANY of us on here to tell, or actually, effectively help you correct. First-person, in-air jumping with you, and observing/providing correction/feedback just simply cannot be substituted here.

Your profile indicates you are lucky enough to be at a really excellent DZ, with many talented, highly experienced instructors, coaches and available mentors - who I am sure would be happy to help you out with this. My advice? - Seek them out, in person, and look less for any actual instructional guidance to come from here 1st.


jackwallace  (Student)

Oct 18, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #4 of 26 (5310 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

Point your toes.


faulk04  (D 32457)

Oct 18, 2012, 12:04 PM
Post #5 of 26 (5293 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

Go talk to DJ (or any other instructor/coach there) and they will be able to help you more than anyone on here.

P.S.

DJ is a sucker for root beer so I'm sure you can easily get his attention if he isn't too busy teaching a course with a bottle of that!


EOCS  (C License)

Oct 18, 2012, 2:39 PM
Post #6 of 26 (5205 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a similar thing but i was suggested to loosen up while in track. make sure not to lose the position. This helped me at least and as you loosen up the sway goes away but of course u dont track as good so u slowly tighten up until you are going fast.

Having an experienced tracker jump with you will be the most useful of course... Just my 2 cents


dsemac91  (A 63513)

Oct 18, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #7 of 26 (5147 views)
Shortcut
Re: [EOCS] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
welcome to skydiving man! tracking is a great skill that takes a lot of jumps to perfect, but there are a couple common issues like you describe that are easy to deal with. first most likely what is causing your teeter totter effect is that your legs are too close together. try widening your stand a bit which will greatly improve your stabiliy. secondly people tend to dive a bit when learning to track, so its important that your are pushing against the air with your arms and cupping as much air as possible to get good altitude conservation.

far flat fast are the trademarks of a good track. keep practicing!

Thanks for the tip man, now that I think of it I believe I can recall me pretty much locking my legs together side by side. Gotta spread em a little! :P haha

In reply to:
More likely he is "teeter-tottering" because he is getting very little actual forward momentum/drive, and is at a progression point where his "ground-based instincts" are still over-riding his (still to be better developed) air/flight-based ones. In other words, his involuntary reactions and resultant body position ("balance" signals coming from his brain/inner-ear) is to correct for vertical (standing, not head-down) instability - and thus he is "teeter-tottering" the length (vertical axis) of his body, not lateral instability - as your leg-width suggestion would rather have him correct.

dsemac - You are right, without video though, there is absolutely no way for ANY of us on here to tell, or actually, effectively help you correct. First-person, in-air jumping with you, and observing/providing correction/feedback just simply cannot be substituted here.

Your profile indicates you are lucky enough to be at a really excellent DZ, with many talented, highly experienced instructors, coaches and available mentors - who I am sure would be happy to help you out with this. My advice? - Seek them out, in person, and look less for any actual instructional guidance to come from here 1st.

I am indeed very lucky to have spaceland as my home DZ, they have absolutely wonderful instructors here, and the atmosphere is awesome.... I understand this is the internet and asking for advice can be sketchy! I can only make it out to the DZ every so often (to stay current mostly) due to being a full time college student and not having much money ontop of that lol... So I try and gather as much resources as I can! And I figure it couldnt hurt to ask here for some advice.... After all its up to me to either take it or leave it!

In reply to:
Point your toes.

THis is something that I thought I had down while i went through AFF at spaceland but I'll keep it in mind to make sure I'm doing it and not subconsciously letting up.

In reply to:
Go talk to DJ (or any other instructor/coach there) and they will be able to help you more than anyone on here.

P.S.

DJ is a sucker for root beer so I'm sure you can easily get his attention if he isn't too busy teaching a course with a bottle of that!

Haha I'll keep the rootbeer in mind :P haha... sounds good man I'll ask DJ

Also As I said in the above reply, I only came to ask on here because I dont go to the DZ enough(just to stay current) so I figure I could gather all resources and opinions possible and make wise choices accordingly! lol

In reply to:
I had a similar thing but i was suggested to loosen up while in track. make sure not to lose the position. This helped me at least and as you loosen up the sway goes away but of course u dont track as good so u slowly tighten up until you are going fast.

Having an experienced tracker jump with you will be the most useful of course... Just my 2 cents

I think ultimately what I will end up doing is just get an instructor to jump with me just like in AFF and have them record me and then we can go over the problems later on xD

sounds like the best solution


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 22, 2012, 9:12 PM
Post #8 of 26 (4690 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think tracking is fun I like it a lot in fact, but often when I straighten my legs out and bring my arms back I start something that feels like teeter tottering back and forth, can't think of a better way to describe it.
It's called porpoising. You have too much arch in your body and it's trying to find a stable point. Roll your shoulders forward towards the ground, the opposite of arching.

Like Jack said, point your toes. Your knees should be locked, legs fully extended. Do NOT bend too much at the waist, esp. at first. Try to flatten out like a board, planking in the air. One of the most important things is heading control. Make sure you keep that as you increase your speed.

Tracking well requires pushing on the air to get the desired results. Keep that in mind when you're tracking. If you're not pushing, you're not tracking.

Stability costs you performance; performance costs you stability. It takes practice to stay straight and stable in a really good track. I'm glad to see you practicing it and trying to get better.

Many, many jumpers don't track as well as they could. Some with 1000+ jumps are downright abysmal at it. It's a huge survival skill to be able to track well. I, too, recommend a little video coaching. Smile


dsemac91  (A 63513)

Oct 23, 2012, 6:36 AM
Post #9 of 26 (4654 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnMitchell] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the input john.

Either this weekend or next weekend, I'm definitely going to give these advice a shot :P.
hopefully I can get an instructor there with me too so I can get a video and post it on here/ see what i'm doing wrong.

Now that you mention rolling my shoulders, I can think back and say that I have not been doing that or atleast not well enough, I worried about pointing my toes/ locking my legs out so much that I didnt do anything with my upper body xD


sebcat  (D 22826)

Oct 23, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #10 of 26 (4603 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnMitchell] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think tracking is fun I like it a lot in fact, but often when I straighten my legs out and bring my arms back I start something that feels like teeter tottering back and forth, can't think of a better way to describe it.
It's called porpoising. You have too much arch in your body and it's trying to find a stable point. Roll your shoulders forward towards the ground, the opposite of arching.

Like Jack said, point your toes. Your knees should be locked, legs fully extended. Do NOT bend too much at the waist, esp. at first. Try to flatten out like a board, planking in the air. One of the most important things is heading control. Make sure you keep that as you increase your speed.

Tracking well requires pushing on the air to get the desired results. Keep that in mind when you're tracking. If you're not pushing, you're not tracking.

Stability costs you performance; performance costs you stability. It takes practice to stay straight and stable in a really good track. I'm glad to see you practicing it and trying to get better.

Many, many jumpers don't track as well as they could. Some with 1000+ jumps are downright abysmal at it. It's a huge survival skill to be able to track well. I, too, recommend a little video coaching. Smile
This is really good advise. I have outside video of me bending too much at the waist and turning slightly during tracking and it's really obvious looking at the video that it kills performance. Seeing that really helped me getting better.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 23, 2012, 10:23 AM
Post #11 of 26 (4592 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

Rolling your shoulders is good; consider pointing your elbows towards the line of flight. This will naturally roll the shoulder and properly place the head at the same time. It'll also put your torso in the correct configuration so that the "planking" John mentions will be flatter while keeping efficiency.


potatoman  (Student)

Nov 22, 2012, 11:11 PM
Post #12 of 26 (4061 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dsemac91] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tips that helped me:
Cup the arms, open the legs a bit, point the toes, but most importantly, (i have a bit of a belly) tighten the tummy muscles. This makes your body cup too, and gives much more level flight. All of that said, pratice and keep heading.


thrillstalker  (C 40678)

Feb 12, 2013, 11:54 AM
Post #13 of 26 (3417 views)
Shortcut
Re: [potatoman] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 12, 2013, 2:46 PM
Post #14 of 26 (3362 views)
Shortcut
Re: [thrillstalker] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

Until one has the technique nailed down solid it's helpful to keep your legs~

Not 'spread' but open a bit...it flattens your hips & gives full use of the entire jumpsuit leg material.

It also gives minor corrections with the feet better response & lessens the tendency deviate on the roll axis.


thrillstalker  (C 40678)

Feb 12, 2013, 3:00 PM
Post #15 of 26 (3348 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

i gotcha. he wasnt meaning that is a max track, just helps until you master your max track. if you're not tracking you basically just falling down:)


potatoman  (Student)

Feb 12, 2013, 10:27 PM
Post #16 of 26 (3260 views)
Shortcut
Re: [thrillstalker] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

You are right there. OP just done a lic. When you get better, you can do the "max_track", with legs together. Check out the base dudes, the good trackers. They have their legs together from about 1-2seconds, and they can really fly it.


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 13, 2013, 11:44 AM
Post #17 of 26 (3163 views)
Shortcut
Re: [thrillstalker] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 13, 2013, 3:01 PM
Post #18 of 26 (3092 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.

Remember the jumpsuits with 'tracking paddles' in the shins? Sly

They worked... but not like booties! Cool


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 16, 2013, 10:11 AM
Post #19 of 26 (2832 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.

To get a good fast flat track you need to minimize the ratio of drag:lift. Lift good, drag bad.


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 16, 2013, 2:07 PM
Post #20 of 26 (2794 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kallend] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.

To get a good fast flat track you need to minimize the ratio of drag:lift. Lift good, drag bad.

Right, so the drag to which I refer would be good drag - lift.


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 19, 2013, 12:14 PM
Post #21 of 26 (2527 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.

To get a good fast flat track you need to minimize the ratio of drag:lift. Lift good, drag bad.

Right, so the drag to which I refer would be good drag - lift.

No, drag and lift have well defined definitions in fluid mechanics, and you are not using them correctly.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 19, 2013, 3:08 PM
Post #22 of 26 (2464 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Right, so the drag to which I refer would be good drag - lift.

Drag isn't lift. Lift helps you change the direction you are going (i.e. moves the angle away from straight down.) Drag just slows you down.


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 20, 2013, 9:30 AM
Post #23 of 26 (2374 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kallend] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
open the legs a bit, point the toes.

how can you get maximum performance out of a track with your legs spread? you are spilling so much air between them.

As someone that has a degree in mechanical engineering (even if it was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I would definitely expect 2 legs separated to have more drag than 2 legs pressed together. There might be some max drag at a particular separation, but it would not be when pressed together.

To get a good fast flat track you need to minimize the ratio of drag:lift. Lift good, drag bad.

Right, so the drag to which I refer would be good drag - lift.

No, drag and lift have well defined definitions in fluid mechanics, and you are not using them correctly.

Yes, I know that. I took my share of those classes, and I know that such terms are misused constantly. It seemed that you were replying to my earlier post, implying that there was something incorrect. It is not possible to know if you just wanted to make a technical point. I was addressing the OP specific comment - wondering if putting legs together is a good idea for tracking.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Feb 20, 2013, 9:41 AM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 20, 2013, 9:38 AM
Post #24 of 26 (2367 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Right, so the drag to which I refer would be good drag - lift.

Drag isn't lift. Lift helps you change the direction you are going (i.e. moves the angle away from straight down.) Drag just slows you down.

Again, then using your legs to change the direction you are going, that you want to be called lift. Whatever, it seems to be splitting hairs when talking about how to track with ordinary skydivers.

Better watch out for professors, they will remind you that you're using the term lift in a way that is not correct.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Feb 20, 2013, 9:39 AM)


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Feb 20, 2013, 11:32 AM
Post #25 of 26 (2326 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Tracking concerns? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Better watch out for professors, they will remind you that you're using the term lift in a way that is not correct.
A good track really does produce proper aerodynamic lift. Anyway, if that bothers you, wait till you hear about atmonauti...


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)