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It's Pronounced 'Stiletto'

 

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craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:20 PM
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It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' Can't Post

While visiting another DZ recently, I saw one of the local jumpers exit for a hop-n-pop. Exit looked fine, but that was all I could see.

The jumper either opened with line-twists or the canopy twisted up and they cutaway. They landed safely under their reserve.

Afterwards, the jumper was telling just about everyone how they had to cutaway 'that Spinetto'. There did not appear to be any acknowledgment of their responsibility for the situation. It was boiled down to the simple cause ... 'that Spinetto'.

Any canopy can open in line twists due to poor maintenance or packing errors and you can make just about any canopy twist up due to poor body position. So, was it REALLY the canopy's fault?

Good for them to make the right call when needed, cut away and land safely. But enough with the 'Spinetto' remarks. That jumper either neglected their gear, improperly packed (you are responsible for what your packer gives you) or opened with poor body position.

And yes, I've put in some time under a Stiletto. It opened fine.

Disclaimer for the WingSuit Drama Queens: I don't jump wingsuits and this is NOT a recommendation for the Stiletto or any other canopy for that or anything else.


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen a lot of hop and pops freak out about the altitude and pull before they were stable. I'm immediately suspicious when I hear that's what it was. God only knows what the guy was doing when he pulled. My money would be on body position as the culprit.


peek  (D 8884)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:40 PM
Post #3 of 34 (2329 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Afterwards, the jumper was telling just about everyone how they had to cutaway 'that Spinetto'.

Drives me crazy too. I think much of that canopy's reputation early on came from it being one of the first and most popular elliptical parachutes. Many years down the road when other canopies came out, people had mostly realized and corrected the things they were doing wrong when they had a Stiletto and their newer canopies had fewer issues. It seems you have met a few people that haven't.


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:57 PM
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Re: [FlyingRhenquest] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you're a student doing a hop n pop for the first time there should be no reason for anyone to be any more nervous about exiting on a hop n pop than doing a full altitude jump. Most places with a turbine dump HnP's out any where from 3 to 5k. You will be open higher doing a HnP from 3k than from dumping at 3k at terminal!

Exiting stable for a HnP is not a super difficult thing. if you can't do it you need to practice and learn them. I would like to think that anyone who is jumping a Stiletto can do a clean hop n pop. But then again these days you never know....


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #5 of 34 (2309 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my Stiletto, over 800 jumps on it and never has IT spun me up and that included wingsuit jumps i did. (granted not many, but those that i did opened on heading and fine)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Oct 16, 2012, 7:14 PM
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

That reminds me of my first jump on a Stiletto.
After I kicked out of the line twists, I did a stand-up landing, but wondered why so many guys raved about their Stilettos.
Over the winter, I re-lined my Stiletto and now understand why people like them so much.
Most of the POPS at Pitt Meadows jump Stilettos.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 16, 2012, 7:42 PM
Post #7 of 34 (2242 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Afterwards, the jumper was telling just about everyone how they had to cutaway 'that Spinetto'. There did not appear to be any acknowledgment of their responsibility for the situation. It was boiled down to the simple cause ... 'that Spinetto'.

Nobody takes responsibility for anything anymore! It's always someone elses fault, or caused by some unknown or percieved entity. Unsure Man Up!!

Oh, by the way, I love my Stiletto. It opens beautifully.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Oct 16, 2012, 8:37 PM
Post #8 of 34 (2217 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

It's still ghetto.Wink


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 17, 2012, 4:28 AM
Post #9 of 34 (2079 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

You're a little thin-skinned over a joke about a canopy, don't ya think?

How about the Racer SST - which some said stood for "struggle, struggle, thump", or the Nova that many called the "Novacaine" after there were a few "issues" with them. Then there was the Cruse-lite, better known as the "Bruise-lite", and I'm sure countless others I'm not thinking of.


Empadinha  (D 32431)

Oct 17, 2012, 4:39 AM
Post #10 of 34 (2068 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

I have hundreds of jumps with Stilettos and never had a problem with its openings: Flew STs 170, 150, 135, 120 and 97. Only had 1 line twist with the 120 (due to a sloppy packing) and it cleared itself before I tried to kick it out.


tristansdad  (C 39285)

Oct 17, 2012, 5:01 AM
Post #11 of 34 (2043 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

there is absolutly nothing wrong with the Stiletto. that guy just wanted the attention. "look at meeeee I just had a cut away"!!


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 17, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: [chuckakers] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You're a little thin-skinned over a joke about a canopy, don't ya think?

Not at all. If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths, that's their problem.

Sounds like you know of a few more and you're not shy about repeating those. Carry on...


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 17, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #13 of 34 (1822 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
You're a little thin-skinned over a joke about a canopy, don't ya think?

Not at all. If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths, that's their problem.

Sounds like you know of a few more and you're not shy about repeating those. Carry on...

In all fairness, it's not completely a myth. In my experience the Stiletto does have a propensity to twist up with less asymmetry or packing issues than most ellips at the same loading.

IMO it was never of the level of meriting the nickname, but everyone's entitled to their view.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 17, 2012, 1:39 PM
Post #14 of 34 (1795 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In all fairness, it's not completely a myth. In my experience the Stiletto does have a propensity to twist up with less asymmetry or packing issues than most ellips at the same loading.

IMO it was never of the level of meriting the nickname, but everyone's entitled to their view.
Interesting opinion. I have ~ 1800 jumps on Stilettos, loaded 1.3 to 1.4 ish, pretty tame. I've had my share of line twists but only one chop due to line twists. Frustrating more than exciting. CrazyUnsure

As much as I've enjoyed the performance and handling and usually soft openings, now that I'm dabbling in wingsuits I may have to shop around for a canopy more tolerant of line twists. Smile


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 17, 2012, 1:53 PM
Post #15 of 34 (1779 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

>Not at all. If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths

Not a myth; they DO have a tendency to spin up. Much worse than a Crossfire, not as bad as a Diablo. Not all parachutes are created the same.

Some other totally unfair, stupid and idiotic observations:

- Novas are sorta unstable in turbulence ("the first self packing parachute! Unfortunately starts at ten feet.)

- Microravens stall after a very short toggle stroke

- The original SST pullout system wasn't a very good design (struggle, struggle, thump)

- External exposed pilot chutes can catch lines

(It is fun to watch people get so defensive over their favorite gear when other people point out problems with them)


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 17, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #16 of 34 (1748 views)
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Re: [billvon] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
they DO have a tendency to spin up

Uh-oh ... someone had trouble with their Stiletto!

Tongue


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 17, 2012, 2:39 PM
Post #17 of 34 (1744 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

>Uh-oh ... someone had trouble with their Stiletto!

And Nova! And Micro Raven. And Diablo. And I've blown out two canopies, but that was my fault, not theirs.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 17, 2012, 2:54 PM
Post #18 of 34 (1723 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In all fairness, it's not completely a myth. In my experience the Stiletto does have a propensity to twist up with less asymmetry or packing issues than most ellips at the same loading.

IMO it was never of the level of meriting the nickname, but everyone's entitled to their view.
Interesting opinion. I have ~ 1800 jumps on Stilettos, loaded 1.3 to 1.4 ish, pretty tame. I've had my share of line twists but only one chop due to line twists. Frustrating more than exciting. CrazyUnsure

As much as I've enjoyed the performance and handling and usually soft openings, now that I'm dabbling in wingsuits I may have to shop around for a canopy more tolerant of line twists. Smile

John - I didn't have spinners often, but did chop 2 over a period of 500 or 600 jumps due to spinning line twists at a wing loading around 1.7. Everything is relative I suppose.

Elliptical + wing loading = better odds of trouble.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 17, 2012, 6:02 PM
Post #19 of 34 (1660 views)
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Re: [billvon] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Not at all. If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths

Not a myth; they DO have a tendency to spin up. Much worse than a Crossfire, not as bad as a Diablo. Not all parachutes are created the same.

Define "tendency", mine does not spin up and so far many of the people in this thread alone also testify that theirs dont spin up.
Now i pack like shit and im not particularly fussy about body position on deployment. Mine tends to NOT have a tendency to spin up


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Oct 17, 2012, 6:38 PM
Post #20 of 34 (1636 views)
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Re: [Squeak] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
>Not at all. If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths

Not a myth; they DO have a tendency to spin up. Much worse than a Crossfire, not as bad as a Diablo. Not all parachutes are created the same.

Define "tendency", mine does not spin up and so far many of the people in this thread alone also testify that theirs dont spin up.
Now i pack like shit and im not particularly fussy about body position on deployment. Mine tends to NOT have a tendency to spin up

My Stiletto 120 openings were getting wonky by the time I put 600 jumps on a brand new line set (apart from the brake toggle lines which I wouldn't trust for more than 200 jumps and the lower steering lines which got replaced with the last set of brake lines).

When I checked the trim the outboard lines had all shrunk 5-6" versus 1.5" for the center cell A lines.

Given the number (lots - there was a time when Americans who wanted elliptical canopies could only buy Bat Wings and Stilettos) produced and age (back to 1992) I could accept that a lot of this comes from people jumping used out-of-trim canopies.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Oct 17, 2012, 6:42 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 17, 2012, 8:51 PM
Post #21 of 34 (1580 views)
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Re: [Squeak] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

>Define "tendency"

They like to spin up more than most canopies. More than most of the canopies I have jumped; not as badly as a Diablo which was the worst canopy I've ever jumped in that regard. The first Vision I jumped also did that to some degree, but the revised version was a lot better.

>and so far many of the people in this thread alone also testify that theirs dont spin up.

Well, in the few dozen jumps I made on the Diablo it never got away from me, either. But it tried to.

I also had a Nova and it was decidedly unstable in turbulence. It never collapsed on me, but you could feel the instability, and it _did_ collapse on several other people. So I stopped jumping it. (BTW anyone want a Nova 150 real cheap?)


Ron

Oct 18, 2012, 4:50 AM
Post #22 of 34 (1532 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths, that's their problem.

1. It is a joke. Calling the canopy a 'spinetto' is just like calling a Javelin an 'unrwavelin', the batwing a 'splatwing' or a free flyer a guy that just could not get stable and learned to live with it.

2. All jokes tend to have a nugget of truth. The stiletto earned the reputation for spinning line twist cutaways. That is not totally the fault of the design, it was the first mass produced elliptical and it was the canopy that was the learning curve on how to jump them.

That being said, they are a great canopy - but one that is not as forgiving as other canopies and not even as forgiving as like loaded ellipticals.

I have two of them and about 4k jumps on stilettos (out of my ~6k jumps)... And I also have more chops on stilettos than any other canopy (even as a ratio of jumps on type).

So:
1. Lighten up
2. See point #1


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 18, 2012, 4:56 AM
Post #23 of 34 (1528 views)
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Re: [Ron] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
If someone wants to continue being an idiot and repeating stupid myths, that's their problem.

1. It is a joke....

So:
1. Lighten up
2. See point #1

To me the point is that instead of addressing the underlying concerns, the jumper the OP was describing was unwilling to accept that a lack of skill and/or a lack of maintenance contributed to a situation that could have possibly been prevented.


It is that pervasive attitude that resulted in experienced canopy pilots creating the SoFPiDaRF, THAT is a joke.


trigger  (D 101390)

Oct 18, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #24 of 34 (1491 views)
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Re: [craigbey] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

Bottom line imo if you jump a high performance canopy you have to expect the occasional high performance opening.

Same with every parachute.

Line twists with an Eliptical design can often result in a reserve ride tho this technique works well in preventing that from my experience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg4Niwm3AYI
At 1.51 approx


(This post was edited by trigger on Oct 18, 2012, 8:00 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 18, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #25 of 34 (1459 views)
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Re: [billvon] It's Pronounced 'Stiletto' [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(BTW anyone want a Nova 150 real cheap?)
Nova = Spanish for "Won't go!"

That should be warning enough.Tongue


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