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Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize?

 


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 15, 2012, 4:19 AM
Post #1 of 21 (2491 views)
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Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? Can't Post

Pretty much all my jumps have been on Pilots - 150, then 132, then 124 and now 117.

At some point I think I'd like to try another type of canopy, something more elliptical to see what they are like. This is maybe to have something as a 2nd canopy (can't afford a complete 2nd rig). Got no plans to get rid of my Pilot, planning on keeping that for quite a while yet.

Due to the general good comments people make about them, and the fact I can get 2nd (or more) hand ones quite cheap, I'm likely to look for a Stiletto.

Question is, what size? For changing from slightly elliptical to fully elliptical would a 120 be ok as that is basically the same size as the Pilot I jump, or would it be wiser to upsize to a 135 for the change over. My container will take either.

My gut feeling is saying the 135, as that would be the more cautious approach for going to my first fully elliptical canopy. But would my Stiletto experience be less on the 135, or will it still give me a very good idea of what the canopy is like? My concern is my WL on a 135 may be less than where the canopy performs better.

I'd load a 135 at about 1.35 and the 120 at about 1.5.

I'm in no rush to get one, so it is nothing immediate that I need, so just looking for advice.


(This post was edited by degeneration on Oct 15, 2012, 4:20 AM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Oct 15, 2012, 8:13 AM
Post #2 of 21 (2387 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Before you buy, jump a 135 and then a 120. Only you are going to know which you will prefer (and you may decide you don't want a Stiletto of any size after jumping them).


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 15, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #3 of 21 (2327 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

True. I don't jump at a large DZ so accessing the canopies isn't necessarily going to be easy, but definitely something I'll ask about.

On the plus side, I'm in no rush to try them so I have patience and time on my side!!


excaza  (C License)

Oct 15, 2012, 11:05 AM
Post #4 of 21 (2311 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.performancedesigns.com/demo_sport.asp


ctrph8  (D License)

Oct 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
Post #5 of 21 (2310 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty much all of the major canopy manufacturers have a demo program. For a small fee or maybe just shipping, they will send you a canopy to try out. It will give you an idea about how these things fly and what works for you. As an added bonus, the manufacturers will just talk with you about what your needs are and try to steer you in a direction that will meet those needs safely.



In reply to:
True. I don't jump at a large DZ so accessing the canopies isn't necessarily going to be easy, but definitely something I'll ask about.

On the plus side, I'm in no rush to try them so I have patience and time on my side!!


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 15, 2012, 1:15 PM
Post #6 of 21 (2267 views)
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Re: [excaza] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

The European demo program would be 155 Euros for a canopy (they only have a Stiletto 120), but I have seen Stilettos for sale for about 200 or so (250 Euros) in the UK, so I could buy a used one for not much more than getting a demo one!!

I know some people are flying stilettos at my local DZ just no idea what size, so I'll ask around next time I'm there.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 15, 2012, 2:31 PM
Post #7 of 21 (2240 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

I went from a Pilot to a Stiletto earlier this year. To be blunt, I consider it a step backwards in many ways. But I did it for the same reason as you - it was dirt cheap, for basically a brand new canopy - and hell, a Stiletto's a right of passage right?

I feel it's going to help familiarise me with another canopy style. I do not view it as a step towards modern swooping - it has a very short recovery arc by comparison to what is viewed as "good" for swooping these days.

Whilst it had only 25 jumps, the canopy I bought was built more than 10 years ago. In many ways, that's where it belongs IMO. It's a bit of fun for me and will help me develop in many ways but it's not, technologically speaking, a step forward from a Pilot.

Given the price you're probably looking it - IMO - go for it for a year, esp if on a budget. Like I said, it's a right of passage, right? Hell, put a hundred jumps on it and you'll probably be able to sell it on for very little loss. In the meantime, save for something which is more of a step forward from both a technological standpoint as well as the perceived role/risk of the canopy.

edit - I meant to say - ask about at the DZ. There has to be dozens of Stiletto's at any given DZ. You must be able to find one to play with for a day to see how it'll fly - hell, the owner probably would jump at playing with a similar sized Pilot for the day!


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Oct 15, 2012, 2:34 PM)


excaza  (C License)

Oct 15, 2012, 3:21 PM
Post #8 of 21 (2219 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, didn't even look at your location before I posted Blush


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 15, 2012, 3:28 PM
Post #9 of 21 (2213 views)
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There has to be dozens of Stiletto's at any given DZ. You must be able to find one to play with for a day to see how it'll fly - hell, the owner probably would jump at playing with a similar sized Pilot for the day!

What he said.


Ronaldo  (D 34728)

Oct 16, 2012, 9:25 AM
Post #10 of 21 (2065 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

IMHO there are many other modern canopies which will perform much better and are less demanding.
Check out the Sabre2, Crossfire 2 if you can
The Stiletto is an old design (some people will crucify me) and not very suited to modern piloting techniques (I'm assuming you intend to swoop)
Try to contact a good canopy piloting coach and explain what you're looking for, he should be able to help


ufk22  (D 16168)

Oct 16, 2012, 10:10 AM
Post #11 of 21 (2045 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

The one thing you didn't say was how you fly your canopy. If what you want is a swoop canopy, the Stiletto is old-school. It has a short recovery arc and puts you down low when starting a true swoop.
If what you want is a great all-around canopy (ok, excluding crw) the Stiletto is a terriffic bargan.
You can have fast-fun with turns, you can float it farther than almost any other canopy, it will do brake turns down low. The only thing to remember is how fast it responds to toggle input. A minor wrong hand movement while landing will have you turning summersaults. Coming out of deep brakes too fast will spin it up real quick.
I've jumped a 150 loaded at 1,5 for many years. When I talked to a PD rep about a replacement canopy and told them what I wanted (no serious swooping, ability to get back from a long spot, ability to sink in flying slow if needed for tight demo, lots of fun to fly) their recommendation was to get another Stiletto.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 16, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #12 of 21 (2017 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not bothered about swopping so that was a wrong assumption!

I was wanting to try it to get a rough flavour of what a fully elliptical canopy handles like. To feel just how response they are etc. and to just try out another canopy.

Basically it would be used as an all round canopy, not a swoop machine.

So that last post has made it sound like something I'd want to try!!

Not bothered about a Sabre2, as from other threads I've read, it isn't THAT much different to a Pilot. Similar sort of class, but just with its own characteristics.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 16, 2012, 11:28 AM
Post #13 of 21 (2003 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not bothered about swopping so that was a wrong assumption!

I was wanting to try it to get a rough flavour of what a fully elliptical canopy handles like.

If you don't want to swoop why do you want to fly a fully elliptical?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 16, 2012, 11:38 AM
Post #14 of 21 (1993 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was wanting to try it to get a rough flavour of what a fully elliptical canopy handles like. To feel just how response they are etc. and to just try out another canopy.
That is a Stiletto and not a modern full elliptical canopy.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Oct 16, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #15 of 21 (1993 views)
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Re: [EFS4LIFE] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you don't want to swoop why do you want to fly a fully elliptical?

Maybe he has the same reason as many who jumped Stilettos in 1995... because they are fun and exciting to fly.


hangdiver  (D License)

Oct 16, 2012, 12:10 PM
Post #16 of 21 (1970 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I jumped a Stiletto for about 1500 jumps with camera...I never had a hard opening or an off heading of more than 90 deg. Never had line twists. I jump a 135 currently @ about 200lbs exit weight and of course it's old tech with a short recovery arc. I really don't know why others have had the problems they did.
I did barrel rolls with it in 1997 and was told I took my helmet off and spun it until I had air to air video of me performing one on camera. Try one they're fun...just mind your body position on deployment.
YMMV...

hangdiver


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 16, 2012, 1:51 PM
Post #17 of 21 (1929 views)
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Re: [hangdiver] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to jump a Stiletto because it is a different style of canopy to a Pilot, from what I gather it isn't going to be too radical a change to make a change from a Pilot, it is meant to be a decent all round canopy and I feel I can broaden my horizons by having more experience of other canopies.

I can pick up a used Stiletto quite cheap, so it won't break my bank as I'm not going to be getting rid of my Pilot.

It may be old tech, but I've read a lot of comments from Stiletto users who really like their canopy.

Even though it is old tech, if it didn't still have a relevant place in today's jumping, surely PD would have ceased production of the range?

Correct me if I am wrong, but fully ellipticals aren't there JUST for swooping. They may be the best for swooping, but that doesn't mean that if you fly one you have to swoop. Surely they can still be a lot of fun to fly before you get to the landing part? That's the bit I'm interested in,

I just want to see what the more responsive canopies feel like when flying.

Having only jumped Pilots I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Maybe I'll jump other types and it'll reaffirm my choice with the Pilot, or maybe I'll jump something else and I'll be like "THIS is what I am after!!!!". Who knows, but if I don't try anything and try new things then I'll never know.

It is not like I asked should I downsize at the same time or anything like that... Tongue


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 16, 2012, 2:18 PM
Post #18 of 21 (1915 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously: ask at your DZ. There should be a few.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 16, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #19 of 21 (1868 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

i have 800ish jumps on my Stiletto 135 and i love it. but from your previous post, you are looking at perhaps having 2 rings one with the pilot and one with a Stiletto. I would not recommend that as the set up points for both canopies will be very different. The people who i know that do have different canopies also have a lot of time flying different styles.

It could be painful if you set up for a turn on your Pilot, as if you were on the Stiletto.


ufk22  (D 16168)

Oct 18, 2012, 7:57 PM
Post #20 of 21 (1712 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

To answer your original question, I would go large rather than small. A 135 stiletto will perform just fine at 1.35. As someone else has sais, if you get it, park the pilot for 100 jumps, don't bounce back and forth. They are very different canopies.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Oct 19, 2012, 2:39 AM
Post #21 of 21 (1674 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Going from a Pilot to a Stiletto. Same size or upsize? [In reply to] Can't Post

If the stiletto will perform fine at 1.35 loading, then that is what I'll go for, as that is what I'd prefer anyway as I'd be more comfortable having one at that size. It was just the performance aspect I was concerned about, as I don't want to get an unfair bad view on the canopy if I underloaded it.

The parking the pilot thing though, that I was going to do for a short while, but not for as long as 100 jumps, as that is a season or so for me!

I'd planned on trying it out over a few weekends just to get a feel for it. Like I've said in previous posts, I'm not into swooping, so I'm not going to be doing anything high performance landing with it. I just want to see how much fun it is to play with in flight. If I don't like it that much, I'll be selling it on, if I do like it, I'll be keeping it and probably using it for longer and then trying to make a decision about which becomes my primary canopy - the pilot or the stiletto.



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