seems Duane had lots of different names as I thought. I found this post from Carr
I'll vouch for the Collins name for Jo, Weber used the following names:
Duane Weber Duane L Weber Duane Lorin Weber Duane Larin Weber Duane Loren Weber John Collins John Chalk Collins John Claudin Collins John Claudian Collins
He also used different dates of birth and Socials. Weber was arrested 26 times under the various names provided (arrests that were submitted to the FBI, there could have been more but for minor offenses) starting on 12/22/1942 and ending on 06/27/1976. All 26 arrest would have been processed by the sheriff's department were the arrest occurred or the United States Marshal Service (he committed a few federal crimes). One set of prints would have been maintained by the local arresting authority the other copy sent to the FBI.
When the FBI receives the prints they create a "Master Set" of prints related to each person that prints are submitted for. If there are multiple sets for one person, the techs will use the best prints from each set to make one best Master Set.
The odds that Weber was able to have someone on the inside of the FBI to alter this process is not a reality. Someone suggested comparing all prints taken from Weber (AKA) et al to those recovered from flight 305. All of the prints are at the FBI, or at least the 26 I referenced.
a later post by Carr:
Jo, the arrest is in the system (the only way the arrests get into the system is if the arresting authority forwards the prints and charging info) and I am looking at it right now. On 06/27/1976 Duane was arrested by the Jasksonville (Fl) Sheriff's Office for Carrying Concealed Firearm, Receiving Stolen Property and DWI. JSO case number 76-278392.
The prints were forwarded to the FBI just like all of the other 26 arrests under his various alias names.
I have located the investigative file on Duane which is chalk full of information that i am willing to provide you, I'll start with this:
On July 24 1997 our lab received the hand printed memo you have made mention of, Duane's resume and a set of your fingerprints for elimination.
On 11/06/1998, the lab reported that there were 19 prints of value discovered on the resume, of which 5 were yours. The remaining 14 prints of value were compared to the known prints of Duane Weber with negative results (meaning they didn't belong to Duane). The 14 unknown prints from the resume where compared to the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results. The known prints of Duane Weber where compared to those of the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results.
No prints of comparison value were recovered from the hand printed memo you supplied.
I now have and will keep at my desk the file on Duane. There are over 500 hundred pages in the file; his tax returns, court filings, interviews with relatives, results of the lab tests........ and so on.
If you want more answers to your questions I have them.
500 pages doesn't sound like a "quick botched investigation"
Where is this REPORT - you indicated it was in the thread - I never saw it! The list of name sounds like they didn't as for the spelling. John Claudian Weber was his brothers name.
John had been alienated from his brother for 38 yrs prior to Duane's death. He knew nothing of his brother since 1958 - I have letters from John that attest to this. The sister REFUSED to be interviewed, but I do not know if they finally got to her - she never mentioned it to me. The other wife in GA. - I think they contacted her, but their relationship was very volcanic so I do not know how well that would have gone. There was his friend - who he did NOT meet until after 1973 but who knew Duane well. THere were ex-employers - so that could be part of those they interviewed.
They DID NOT INTERVIEW Tommy Gunn, Tony Wong, Ray (I forget the guys last name right now) or some of the others out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale.
The truth is Duane only had one friend he was close to and he did not meet him until 1973 and I still keep intouch with he and his wife. The others Duane contacted knew him as John Collins - but the FBI DID NOT INTERVIEW THEM - GOTTA ASK YOUR SELF WHY?
Jo, You need to get real. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror and then go to page 80 on this thread as Mrshutter mentions above.
The post with all the names is Post 1995, as Mrshutter lists in his post above, and then Post 1996 is by you. In addition, you have five more posts on page 80.
The above just confirms that you don't really read or understand or even care what other people post on this thread.
I think you owe the FBI and Carr an apology. You have mis-represented what they have done and tried to apply your own non-existent investigative skills to this matter.
The one thing Carr did not do is compare the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers after the NORJAK caper with the DNA they have taken from Sheridan Peterson. I am very certain they will find a match and this case will finally be solved. Possibly, the DNA is on its way to the FBI labs in Quantico, VA. That means we should know of the case being solved by the end of this year. The DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps is truly the Smoking Gun that will blow this case wide open.
“….apply your own non-existent investigative skills to this matter.”
After I read Mrshutter45’s post, I did a search on ‘Claudian’ since it was an unusual name and went directly to Ckret’s comment. Then I noticed that skyjack71 was the next respondent and groaned at the temerity to admonish others to ‘read the thread’ while expecting some level of credibility, associated with decoding a pair of military serial numbers which confess to Duane being DB Cooper.
Stunned disbelief probably best describes the sensation I felt while reading some of the most elaborate garbage mathematics, leaps of logic and deeply buried critical thinking, while a pair of government assigned and created, serial numbers hold a secret clue to DB Cooper’s identity. One must divide by seven, then take the square root of the fourth digit and multiply by the nearest prime integer, unless it is a ‘flipper’! You must NOT forget the flipper in the code. Why aren’t you listening and using the flipper as I pointed out earlier? You have to use a flipper, don’t forget the flipper, the flipper, flipper…….
I am not aware of any science, or data, that states finger prints "change" with out the exception of damage from scarring by wounds. So as long as they had one set of prints from Duane, they had accurate prints, from Duane.
YOU want to give CUDOS to an agent who made an ASS out of himself by stating on the FBI Official Page the DAN COOPER Comics where involved and also taking credit for this discovery without ever mentioning he obtained this false information from a bunch of people posting on a thread! It was removed only AFTER I made a complaint to the FBI on it Web site...I TOLD them exactly where this Cooper Comic thing came from - a poster by the name of SNOWMMAN!
THis is the kind of CRAP Carr put out about the case - he was only trying to make himself sound important. The way he handled himself on every clip I saw - was to impress the public -it was ALL about HIM and not about investigating Cooper. The above are your perceptions; not reality. Agent Carr and the FBI had every right to publish info about the Cooper Comic, since it theoretically linked with the known signatory on the flight ticket: Dan Cooper, and more.
Everyone including Carr acknowledged Snowmman who discovered the Cooper Comic.
I thought Larry was very fair with you, both professionally and personally. I thought your actions were completely selfish and uncalled for, and counterproductive to you personally.
This is all old ground and hindsight now, in any event.
(This post was edited by georger on Oct 13, 2012, 8:38 PM)
what does this have to do with DB Cooper? you put a lot of blame on everyone Jo, is this fair? they have dozens of his prints! regardless of one they don't, Carr did mention "including his other names"
I'm not trying to be rude but this doesn't make any sense to linking him to Cooper,
"information from a bunch of people posting on a thread!" this is your words and is this not what you are doing as well? very confusing Jo!
"Pros and Cons - but the consensus at that time was the central system was NOT fully function and not all states complied and the system was NOT fully operational. "
"NOT one "authority" could understand HOW Weber got arrested in FL with a record and with a gun in 1976 and it NOT hit the central system of prints. I am the ONE who TOLD the FBI about this incident at a later date. Perhaps they did investigate it at that later date but did NOT tell me what the finding where. "
very confusing Jo
he arrest is in the system (the only way the arrests get into the system is if the arresting authority forwards the prints and charging info) and I am looking at it right now. On 06/27/1976 Duane was arrested by the Jasksonville (Fl) Sheriff's Office for Carrying Concealed Firearm, Receiving Stolen Property and DWI. JSO case number 76-278392.
(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Oct 13, 2012, 9:01 PM)
Jo, I'm really having trouble following you, Carr explained this.
Carr STATED: The prints were forwarded to the FBI just like all of the other 26 arrests under his various alias names (prints included)
they then took all of the prints and made a master set, why would the retired FBI agents tell you different and why take there word over active agents?
who exactly told you they used his 1945 prints and what difference would this be?
just like the names you think they have misspelled were done by Duane to cover his tracks, this is why you see the same names spelled different. this is criminal 101
what exactly are you implying about John Collins years before the hijacking and what purpose would this prove?
YOU are NOT grasping it!. Duane's prints from the other arrests where NEVER compared with the ALIAS. CARR was talking on the assumption this was done!Duane's last major arrest was BEFORE the central SYSTEM. NOTE he was booked, served his time and given a commutation of sentence under the name of John C. Collins - NOT Duane Weber or any other ALIAS! Duane was release and commuted as JOHN COLLINS.
It was never noted in the Jefferson FILE that John Collins was DUANE WEBER- until it was placed on the Prison SITE AFTER the file had been destroyed! I had communication with Jefferson before the files were destroyed - I was told Duane WEBER was NEVER in Jefferson.
I WAS unable to obtain the files from JEFFERSON because I was not the widow of John Collins. HAD the FILES have noted COLLINS AND WEBER as being one and the same - I would have gotten those record.
ONLY after the paper files were DESTROYED and it was put on the computer system was I able to obtain any information at all.
CARR timed this real GOOD with the THREAD when he posted I could get them online. HE KNEW the files were DENIED to me before. THIS was around the time he posted Duane's records on the thread - RECORDS I had asked him for and the FBI about for yrs....yet what do they do - wait until the BACK-up PAPER files and the DETAILED reports had been destroyed (GOTTA ASK YOURSELF WHY THEY DID THAT).
The FBI went looking for Duane Weber just 3 months after John Collins had been released. He was NOT hard to find, but if the FBI was after him for something - they sure did a LOT of LOOKING the OTHER WAY! Duane was selling insurance in 1969 in Mobile Al. and then on to Atlanta, GA and was in the business until he went out on disability.
The accumulation of the old prints on WEBER were never placed into the SYSTEM - CARR had NOTHING to OFFER other than the McNeil FILE which the first AGENT had denied!?????????????????????????????????[/:(][/:/]
Jo, You either don't understand what Carr was saying in the two posts (starting with 1995) where he explains the facts concerning the fingerprints or you simply don't want to do anything except argue. I notice that you argued with Carr on that same page (page 80) about fingerprints and DNA. On page 81, the argument continued with you making 11 posts and Carr 6.
Carr plainly told you that the FBI had a copy of Duane's fingerprints in 1942 and that they were updated subsequently during his 25+ arrests. This apparently included his arrests under the name of John Collins.
But regardless, Duane's fingerprints from 1942 to 1976 did not change when he was using a different name. And Carr was using the prints that were on file at the FBI and it would not make any difference whatsoever if someone altered the copies of those prints that were on file at some other law enforcement agency.
In your arguments with Carr, you mention that James Earl Ray managed to alter his fingerprints that were on file at a Missouri prison. That did not change the prints that were on file at the FBI. Ray's prints on the rifle that he used to kill MLK were identified from FBI files. And a number that was engraved on some of the items (maybe including a portable radio) that were found with the rifle, turned out to be Ray's prisoner number in Missouri.
Jo, your entire argument about the fingerprints is meaningless.
In order to facilitate a more thorough discussion of DB Cooper, I have generously crafted a database of Bigfoot organizations, which will prove invaluable in regard to pushing people or theories since they too have a vast experience base with using…. nothing. You’re welcome.
There you have it, proof that Bigfoot exists. What reason would these people have to lie (excluding delusional psychosis)? The very fact that there are nineteen different organizations, serves as inherent proof that the animal has been part of an FBI sponsored cover-up, which has grown to proportions which simply can’t be ignored. For the answer must be revealed to ‘the public’, and be disclosed for all to see, once and for all.
I will not live forever and may not have the strength to selflessly and bravely carry on my quest, seeking the truth, and getting pissy with anyone who doesn’t violently agree with the ‘truth’, as I have stated many times in the past, and in the future which you aren’t aware of yet, as I have not allowed you to experience that time frame. Now I must feed and rest.
In 1924, the FBI’s Identification Division was established by authority of the United States congressional budget appropriation bill for the Department of Justice. The identification division was created to provide a central repository of criminal identification data for law enforcement agencies throughout the United States. The original collection of fingerprint records contained 810,188 records. After its creation, hundreds of thousands of new records were added to this collection yearly, and by the early 1960s the FBI’s criminal file had grown to about 15 million individuals. This was in addition to the 63 million records in the civilian file, much of which was the result of military additions from World War II and the Korean conflict.
Almost all of the criminal file’s 15 million individuals contained 10 rolled fingerprints per card for a total of 150 million single fingerprints. Incoming records were manually classified and searched against this file using the FBI’s modified Henry system of classification. Approximately 30,000 cards were searched daily. The time and human resources to accomplish this daily workload continued to grow. As a card entered the system, a preliminary gross pattern classification was assigned to each fingerprint by technicians. The technicians could complete approximately 100 fingerprint cards per hour. Complete classification and searching against the massive files could only be accomplished at an average rate of 3.3 cards per employee per hour. Obviously, as the size of the criminal file and the daily workload increased, the amount of resources required continued to grow. Eventually, classification extensions were added to reduce the portion of the criminal file that needed to be searched against each card. Nonetheless, the manual system used for searching and matching fingerprints was approaching the point of being unable to handle the daily workload.
Jo, the prints are stored at the FBI, it's not there job to inform the public if a Felon is employed, the employer will have to find out himself.
again, we are talking about the 70's VS today, the laws have changed and are a lot more severe today. you now have the case number Jo, it should be pretty easy to find out what happened to him, back in this period, I would take a gamble and say a fine was given, but that's a guess, I did try and find it online but records don't go back that far online
(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Oct 13, 2012, 10:33 PM)