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Trouble in the Sky-van

 

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kcogletree  (D 29856)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:23 AM
Post #1 of 52 (4459 views)
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Trouble in the Sky-van Can't Post

After talking with others on my load and review of my video, I'm still looking for some answers. Ok, here's the scenario...1st group opens & secures door, they're a 8 way r/w group followed by another 6way r/w group then our five way (running from mid-ship). Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, WTF!?!? It happened so quickly I'm still trying to put things together since the video shows to door appears secure up til this point, next thing it shows is me on the floor with the door open only about two or three feet. Since my upper body is mostly outside, I just continued to roll out and away from the plane. Has anyone had this happen or seen anything like this?


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:33 AM
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After talking with others on my load and review of my video, I'm still looking for some answers. Ok, here's the scenario...1st group opens & secures door, they're a 8 way r/w group followed by another 6way r/w group then our five way (running from mid-ship). Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, WTF!?!? It happened so quickly I'm still trying to put things together since the video shows to door appears secure up til this point, next thing it shows is me on the floor with the door open only about two or three feet. Since my upper body is mostly outside, I just continued to roll out and away from the plane. Has anyone had this happen or seen anything like this?

Is it possible that someone exiting before you bumped their head on the door giving it a chance to be released from it's locks?


kcogletree  (D 29856)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:47 AM
Post #3 of 52 (4402 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't appear that anyone hit it going out but a couple guys said they felt the plane lunge between groups. It would seem to me that as long as it was latched properly it shouldn't come down no matter what, right?


(This post was edited by kcogletree on Oct 11, 2012, 5:52 AM)


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:50 AM
Post #4 of 52 (4394 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Didn't appear that anyone hit it going out but a couple guys said they felt the plane lunge between groups.

Well, it is possible they half ass secured it and it just happened to release at the right time. The 'lunging' could've helped it along.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:58 AM
Post #5 of 52 (4371 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It would seem to me that as long as it was latched properly it shouldn't come down no matter what, right?

there is No

"no matter what"
in skydiving....

it's a dynamic sport of which we are just a part.... anything can happen. Wink

jmy


piisfish

Oct 11, 2012, 6:09 AM
Post #6 of 52 (4346 views)
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Re: [jimmytavino] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
anything can happen. Wink
specially with skyvan doors Laugh


kcogletree  (D 29856)

Oct 11, 2012, 6:12 AM
Post #7 of 52 (4339 views)
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Re: [jimmytavino] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

True that...I'm a believer Blush


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Oct 11, 2012, 6:45 AM
Post #8 of 52 (4302 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

haha yeah skyvan doors arent known for their reliability!Wink


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 11, 2012, 7:07 AM
Post #9 of 52 (4281 views)
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Re: [waveoff5500] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
haha yeah skyvan doors arent known for their reliability!Wink

Well, that may be true, but apparently they're fairly durable! Dust it off, replace a hinge or two and put it back on! Laugh


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Oct 11, 2012, 7:21 AM
Post #10 of 52 (4263 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Also because you can't just go down to the Quicky Mart and pick up a spare Skyvan door for .99. Those doors ain't cheap (well nothing airplane related is for that matter).


piisfish

Oct 11, 2012, 7:29 AM
Post #11 of 52 (4247 views)
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Re: [waveoff5500] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
haha yeah skyvan doors arent known for their reliability!Wink
they are still more reliable than SDO's (Skyvan Door Operators)


peek  (D 8884)

Oct 11, 2012, 7:35 AM
Post #12 of 52 (4233 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, WTF!?!?

Whoah! WTF indeed. I had never considered the possibility of that happening. Well, now we _all_ will.

I suppose the owner of the Skyvan has taken a quick look at the latch mechanism? Otherwise, maybe the first group did not get it latched fully?

I could also imagine how a big "bounce" when the one group exited could cause something to happen.

Be careful everyone. Nothing is perfect.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Oct 11, 2012, 7:44 AM
Post #13 of 52 (4215 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Watch this!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXA8WsJoFw

Shocked


scottd818  (C 41314)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:20 AM
Post #14 of 52 (4142 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that the door wasnt latched all the way. I was on this jump with him and i know i didnt see anybody hit the door and i know that i didnt. We told the rampie what happened and made sure he told who ever was opperating the door to double check that it was latched all the way for the rest of the day and it didnt happen again. We were the last group out and we ran out from mid plane so it caused the plane to pitch up then down after we exited. i think this caused the incomplete latch job to loosed up even more. And Tree was the last person out of that load.
Hows the ankle doing now tree??


holie  (A License)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:20 AM
Post #15 of 52 (4141 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... (running from mid-ship). Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, ... Has anyone had this happen or seen anything like this?

Thought about YOU made an error?
How to spot from mid-ship?
How to get a save exit?

The "miss skyvan" just pointed out your error Laugh


scottd818  (C 41314)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:25 AM
Post #16 of 52 (4135 views)
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Re: [holie] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
... (running from mid-ship). Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, ... Has anyone had this happen or seen anything like this?

Thought about YOU made an error?
How to spot from mid-ship?
How to get a save exit?

The "miss skyvan" just pointed out your error Laugh
I checked the spot then backed up to midship and ran out.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:49 AM
Post #17 of 52 (4094 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Same thing happened during the wingsuit bigways at Perris last month. Fortunately the door didn't hit anyone that time.

Attributed to being incompletely latched in the UP position.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 11, 2012, 8:51 AM
Post #18 of 52 (4089 views)
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Re: [peek] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Everyone exits with no problem then as the last one diving out suddenly I'm knocked down to the floor by the door, WTF!?!?

Whoah! WTF indeed. I had never considered the possibility of that happening. Well, now we _all_ will.

I suppose the owner of the Skyvan has taken a quick look at the latch mechanism? Otherwise, maybe the first group did not get it latched fully?

I could also imagine how a big "bounce" when the one group exited could cause something to happen.

Be careful everyone. Nothing is perfect.

Maybe we need a USPA "I" rating to teach people how to operate Skyvan doors.Wink


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 11, 2012, 8:53 AM
Post #19 of 52 (4084 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

In our skyvan it is possible (difficult but possible) to get the closing pin ABOVE the insert that accepts it. There's a little lip above the insert that you can get the pin stuck on. It will then fall out with the slightest knock. It's never happened at altitude because there's so much vibration but I've managed to do it on the ground.

Opening the Skyvan door is often a high stress event because in many cases the first people out do not have a lot of experience with the door (floaters on the bigway) or is a cameraman who cannot get the door all the way up due to his wings - so it's a group effort, often with a lot of yelling and pressure. It is worthwhile to take a few extra seconds and do it right. It's also worthwhile to check it while you are waiting to give the group ahead of you time for separation purposes.


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Oct 11, 2012, 9:44 AM
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Re: [theonlyski] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

lol i can just imagine the thought process "who should we trust with a finicky door that can fall off if opened wrong...i know! skydivers!" Cool


jimjumper  (D 11137)

Oct 11, 2012, 9:55 AM
Post #21 of 52 (3994 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

I had it happen with a tandem. Last out and as I set up for exit the door dropped right in front us. Since the plane was empty, I had my student help me lift the door and we slipped out underneath it. When I do tandems out of the Van now I make sure the person opening it knows how to latch it properly.


kcogletree  (D 29856)

Oct 11, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Re: [scottd818] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool thanks Scott, fractured the #3,4,& 5th metatarsals near the toes, xrays show real clean break and the doc said it should recovery rather nicely. I'm thankful that things didn't turn out worse. Thank you all for the input, I'll surely be extra cautious on the next skyvanWink Blue Skyz!!!


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 11, 2012, 4:40 PM
Post #23 of 52 (3752 views)
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Re: [billvon] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Opening the Skyvan door is often a high stress event because in many cases the first people out do not have a lot of experience with the door (floaters on the bigway) or is a cameraman who cannot get the door all the way up due to his wings - so it's a group effort, often with a lot of yelling and pressure.

Easy fix, have someone capable of working the door sit next to the door. The Skyvan is one of the easiest planes to move around in, so there's no reason not to seat a capable person next to the door. Even if that person is not in the first group out, it's no problem for them to walk towards the front of the plane after securing the door.

The other aspect of that is an aircraft emergency. If the pilot gives the order to exit, the last thing you want is to have to wait for someone who is not familiar with the door, or who is afraid of the door and hesitant with it's operation. Your best bet for success is to have a clear designation of responsibility ahead of time, so there's no need to figure things out or make changes in the event of an emergency.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Oct 11, 2012, 4:41 PM)


Shredex

Oct 11, 2012, 5:20 PM
Post #24 of 52 (3713 views)
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Re: [kcogletree] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

>video shows to door appears secure up til this point, next thing it shows is me on the floor with the door open only about two or three feet. Since my upper body is mostly outside


So where is this video!? Blush


erdnarob  (D 364)

Oct 11, 2012, 5:54 PM
Post #25 of 52 (3671 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Trouble in the Sky-van [In reply to] Can't Post

Really scary. Does the original Skyvan have an hydraulic system for closing and opening the door ? If my memory is OK, I think its big brother, the Sherpa, has one. I have jumped quite a lot from a Sherpa this Summer.


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